Headphone Amp

[dachay2tnr]

I had a Rolls RA53b for a short time. It sounded great as long as you didn't hook up too many pairs of headphones at the same time. It has outputs for five pairs, but I found that if you tried to drive more than two or sometimes three, it would distort severely. At first I thought it must be defective, but I got a second one and it behaved exactly the same way. So I returned it and bought a Behringer 4700. No problems at all with that one.

It seems to be an impedance issue. If you use high impedance headphones, you'll be fine. If you use low impedance headphones (Sony's, for example), you'll have nothing but grief from the RA53.

The 4700, on the other hand, has handled every combination that I've thrown at it. I don't generally buy Behringer gear, but in this case it seems to be an acceptable choice. (Note that the 4700 is specifically rated for low impedance headphones.)

This is quite interesting.

I started this thread because I am currently using the Rolls RA53 (not, mind you, the 53b). However, I have had several performers complain of sporadic distortion when listening through it.

I have two headphone connections available on my Mackie board. I have one set of phones plugged directly into one connection, which is how I monitor. The other connection runs to the Rolls amp, which is what the performers use. I have never heard any distortion, so I've been assuming there was a problem with the Rolls and decided to replace it.

For what it's worth, I normally have four pair of Sony MDR-7506's plugged into it at all times. So it seems my experience mirrors yours almost to a tee - except for the model.

I ended up ordering a Presonus HP4 (I just can't seem to get my head around spending more than ~$100 for a friggin' headphone amp).

I'lll let you know whether this fixes the problem or not.

 

[xstatic]

As a point of reference, it is not the greatest idea to run a headphone out to a kine input ( like on headphone amps ). It will work, but can create problems.

 

[Micter]

Personally, I really like the Carvin headphone amp. It has connection for two input sources in the back. And on each channel, it has volume knobs for each of those sources and a master volume knob. It ALSO has aux inputs on the front on each channel.

+1

I like the fact that it's capable of running 8 sets of phones and two headphone mixes to each.

 

[dachay2tnr]

As a point of reference, it is not the greatest idea to run a headphone out to a kine input ( like on headphone amps ). It will work, but can create problems.

Sorry, but what is a kine input?

And what problems can result?

 

[travelin travis]

Sorry, but what is a kine input?

And what problems can result?

i'm sure he meant line input.

 

[xstatic]

A kine input is what happens when my brain thinks faster than my fingers type.....

For everyone else it is a line input....... Typos are my strong point

 

[dachay2tnr]

A kine input is what happens when my brain thinks faster than my fingers type.....

For everyone else it is a line input....... Typos are my strong point

Well, that makes a little more sense to my limited brain.

Care to elaborate on what the issue is with running a headphone signal into a Line input?

Further, if it doesn't make sense to do that, what is the recommendation for where to place the headphone amp? I would think that the Control Room outs could be an option - but unfortunately one of the connections on my C/R outs is acting funky.

The other alternative I see is to put the headphone amp in line with the monitor speakers: Main Out > Headphone Amp > Monitors. In fact, the "monitor mute" button on the Presonus would seem to suggest this is a normal practice. However, in my case, the headphone amp is physically located 20 or 25 feet away from my mixing station. Therefore, it would be a real PITA to get to the mute button whenever I needed to turn the monitors on or off. Also, in this setup, should I be concerend about the headphone amp having a coloring effect on the sound prior to the monitors - even though I assume it is simply a pass through?

 

[dachay2tnr]

FWIW, I received the Presonus HP4 yesterday. The instruction manual specifically states that this can be driven from a headphone out port. (Don't know if this is specific to this model, or to headphone amps in general).

However, it does warn that the unit can distort if the volume on the headphone out is turned too high.

Distortion was the reason I was replacing the Rolls RA53. However, I run my headphone out volume level about halfway. I don't have a clue at this point whether that may have been the issue with the Rolls, but I find it hard to believe that halfway would overdrive it.

Anyway, we'll see what happens with the Presonus next time I have a session.

 

[xstatic]

Basically, a headphone output sends a lot more voltage than a line output. It makes it very easy to overdrive the unit that you are patching it to.

 

[travelin travis]

dachy2ntr, why exactly are you using the headphone out to drive your headphone amp? why not use the buss or aux out's?

 

[dachay2tnr]

dachy2ntr, why exactly are you using the headphone out to drive your headphone amp? why not use the buss or aux out's?

Aside from the fact that it seemed to be the obvious place I never really gave it much thought.

I'll have to play around with it. I guess I can use the board's Sub Outs for the headphone amp.

 

[xstatic]

If you use an aux send, then you get a discreet mix that is seperate from what you are hearing in your monitors.

 

[dachay2tnr]

I am so not getting this.

The Aux Send(s) seems to be a mono signal. How do I get the entire mix?

 

[littledog]

You have to use two of them. You want them to be prefader, so that every time you solo or mute something on the board (or change fader level) it won't affect the headphone mix.

If you have a stereo track on your board, e.g. L&R drum overheads, coming into two seperate board channels, you use Aux 1 on the left channel and Aux 2 on the right. For mono tracks, you use both Aux 1 & Aux 2. Equal settings will put the track in the center. If you want it panned left or right use more of one Aux or the other.

 

[scrubs]

I am so not getting this.

The Aux Send(s) seems to be a mono signal. How do I get the entire mix?

I'm not sure what mixer you're using, but you hopefully have at least 2 sets of outs - a main/master out (which would connect to your soundcard/recording device) and a control room/monitor out (which you would connect, via 2 separate cables - left and right - to the hp4). You would then connect your monitors to the monitor outs on the hp4 and connect headphones to the front of the hp4.

 

[travelin travis]

I am so not getting this.

The Aux Send(s) seems to be a mono signal. How do I get the entire mix?

what mixer are you using?

 

[dachay2tnr]

First off, I am using a Mackie 1642VLZ. It has all of the connections you guys are suggesting, with the exception of the C/R outs (they're there, but are on the fritz).

Right now I have the returns from my sound card coming into Channels 15-16 on the Mackie (although I'm not locked into doing this). These channels are both on a single channel strip on the Mackie board. In other words the channel strip has a left and right input connection, but only a single fader, single pan pot, and a single control for each aux.

The main problem with scrubs' approach is that the headphone amp is in the studio while the monitors are in the control room. It's not convenient to reach the monitor mute button on the HP4, and therefore I would have no way to easily turn the monitors on and off separately from the headphones.

I can work with dog's suggestion, although it will mean repatching the board so that the sound card outputs feed two independant channel strips, giving me separate pan and aux controls over the left and right channels.

However, what's wrong with the approach I suggested above - using the sub outs to drive the headphone amp? This allows the Main fader to control my monitors, and the sub faders controlling the headphones.

 

[littledog]

It is no problem if all you are doing is recording yourself.

But if you are sitting behind the board recording others, you want a prefader headphone mix for the musician(s). Ideally, you might even want multiple mixes, so that you can give the vocalist more of themselves (so they can sing in tune), while the rest of the band can hear what they need to hear (e.g. more bass and drums).

If you like stereo mixes (which are nice), that means you will need four prefader sends, which many cheap boards don't have. Allen and Heath Mix Wizard can give you that, as can the StudioMaster Trilogy. Not sure about the Mackie.

But back to the original question - if you just need one stereo headphone mix, most boards can give you two pre-fader aux sends, except for some of the mini-mixers.

Here's why that is important if you are recording others:

It is very convenient (and sometimes critical) to be able to solo or mute a track while recording is going on. You may hear a strange sound, and want to try and isolate where it is coming from. Or you want to check and see if there is distortion on an individual track. Or any number of other reasons. You also want to be able to ride volume faders.

The point is, if you are using subgroups for your headphone mixes, everything you do on the board will be heard in the headphones. So if you mute the vocal track (or lower the volume with a fader) for a few seconds so can check on how the rest of the band sounds, all of a sudden no one will be able to hear the vocalist.

 

[dachay2tnr]

Thanks. I think it's starting to sink it.

I think for my purposes now, the sub mix will work. But the knowledge of the aux sends is very helpful.

I've had this board for awhile now, and once I set it up to suit my purposes, I never much explored the various routing options. However, nice to know what's there should I ever need them.