Harsh OH's

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steppingonmars

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Hi all

Seems like I get myself in the same problem over and over again lately. How do I get the drum OH's to have some life without them sounding like an 1/8" drill bit in the ear drums. This is how I've been recording them lately

- 2 audio technica's at2020's in XY config about 3 feet above the cymbals
- 2/3 of peak on the input of the pre's
- little eq on the OH's other than a high pass around 100hz
- some compression, usually a tape saturation setting or something close to it
- a drum room preset aux send or a small plate

I realize it can be anything causing this harshness, but what are the likely causes. Also the room I have is very dead (ceiling tiles on the walls and cielings and bass traps in the corners with carpet on the floor). So here are the possiblilties I'm thinking of and am wondering where to start

- harsh mics - I do notice when doing vox that these mics are quite harsh around the 2k area

- Room - The drums aren't sounding harsh to my ears in the room, but with all of that deadening is it causing problems when micing them?

- digital recording efx - could this be a factor? How much of a limitation is this?

- don't know what the hell I'm doing - I'm hoping this is the reason more than the room and mics as it's more enjoyable to work on.


Here's some things I was considering
- putting the OH's through reverb with eq to soften the sound
- using a tube pre, (I'd have to buy one)
- using a different mic or even a differnt kind of mic, wondering if anyone's used 57's as OH's and what they sound like

You can hear a sample of the OH's on the "recording live" in this forum

Thanks

Mike
 
steppingonmars said:
Hi all

Seems like I get myself in the same problem over and over again lately. How do I get the drum OH's to have some life without them sounding like an 1/8" drill bit in the ear drums. This is how I've been recording them lately

- 2 audio technica's at2020's in XY config about 3 feet above the cymbals
- 2/3 of peak on the input of the pre's
- little eq on the OH's other than a high pass around 100hz
- some compression, usually a tape saturation setting or something close to it
- a drum room preset aux send or a small plate

I realize it can be anything causing this harshness, but what are the likely causes. Also the room I have is very dead (ceiling tiles on the walls and cielings and bass traps in the corners with carpet on the floor). So here are the possiblilties I'm thinking of and am wondering where to start

- harsh mics - I do notice when doing vox that these mics are quite harsh around the 2k area

- Room - The drums aren't sounding harsh to my ears in the room, but with all of that deadening is it causing problems when micing them?

- digital recording efx - could this be a factor? How much of a limitation is this?

- don't know what the hell I'm doing - I'm hoping this is the reason more than the room and mics as it's more enjoyable to work on.


Here's some things I was considering
- putting the OH's through reverb with eq to soften the sound
- using a tube pre, (I'd have to buy one)
- using a different mic or even a differnt kind of mic, wondering if anyone's used 57's as OH's and what they sound like

You can hear a sample of the OH's on the "recording live" in this forum

Thanks

Mike
Click to expand...

I've used 57's with good effect for overheads, they are very different with regards to SDCs. I was surprised at how sharp & bright SDC's were when I switched back. The only thing is if you are using more than two overheads & a kick mic you may find that everything in your kit'll start fighting for a place on the same frequency range. If your driving the signal into the red for a little warmth on the compressor, perhaps you're having to over EQ to get more definition and this is causing the harshness?
 
steppingonmars said:
Hi all

Seems like I get myself in the same problem over and over again lately. How do I get the drum OH's to have some life without them sounding like an 1/8" drill bit in the ear drums. This is how I've been recording them lately

- 2 audio technica's at2020's in XY config about 3 feet above the cymbals
- 2/3 of peak on the input of the pre's
- little eq on the OH's other than a high pass around 100hz
- some compression, usually a tape saturation setting or something close to it
- a drum room preset aux send or a small plate

I realize it can be anything causing this harshness, but what are the likely causes. Also the room I have is very dead (ceiling tiles on the walls and cielings and bass traps in the corners with carpet on the floor). So here are the possiblilties I'm thinking of and am wondering where to start

- harsh mics - I do notice when doing vox that these mics are quite harsh around the 2k area

- Room - The drums aren't sounding harsh to my ears in the room, but with all of that deadening is it causing problems when micing them?

- digital recording efx - could this be a factor? How much of a limitation is this?

- don't know what the hell I'm doing - I'm hoping this is the reason more than the room and mics as it's more enjoyable to work on.


Here's some things I was considering
- putting the OH's through reverb with eq to soften the sound
- using a tube pre, (I'd have to buy one)
- using a different mic or even a differnt kind of mic, wondering if anyone's used 57's as OH's and what they sound like

You can hear a sample of the OH's on the "recording live" in this forum

Thanks

Mike
Click to expand...
You shouldn't need so many "band-aids" to get the overheads sounding good. If it sounds bad, you have to go back a step and ask yourself how the ROOM sounds, and how the DRUMS are tuned. Where are the drums placed in the room, for example. What treatment do you have in the corners...or at all??? If you have a well treated room and good sounding drums, THEN it's time to look at your mic configuration. Are the overheads too close to the cymbals, so that thry're really "cymbal mics". That could be the problem, too. Are you recording too hot??? You don't need to go anywhere near "0" when recording. It could be any or all of these things.

But adding reverb and/or EQ and/or compression isn't the solution. :)
 
Watch your input gain. I don't know what you mean by "2/3 of peak." One of my earliest catastrophic errors was trying to get OH signals really loud, like -3dBFS peaks. Bad idea. Shrill and nasty, as my overworked pre blasted my long-suffering AD converter on my VS880EX. OH are very dynamic, keep peaks around -10dBFS or even lower. It's easy to turn the stuff up (worst case, you can always duplicate the tracks and buss 'em together), and there should be plenty to work with even if your average levels are down around -30dBFS.

Just get the 0 flashing, and stay completely out of the red on the pre, you should be OK.
 
It could be as simple as mic placement. Try moving the OH mics. Maybe higher, maybe further out to the sides, maybe more to the front or rear of the kit, experiment with various placements. I was having a similar problem (harsh cymbals) then I added a huge cloud over the drums. The cloud softened the cymbals and helped with other boomy problems I was having. Cymbals are a little tricky to record and drummers who play hard don't make it any easier.
 
Ok some homework completed

Did a test with the OH's behind the kit sorta in a space pair technique. close mic'd the toms and gated them just for the rolls, added guitars and bass to get an idea of how they sound in the mix.

Everything was done by me on this one, drum playing needs work. A limiter is the only thing on the stereo buss. Let me know if you hear any phase issues on the OH's and also I'm wondering how the mix is translating to other systems. I'm thinking I better re-amp the bass listening to it



http://www.box.net/shared/9yuks4x3jf
 
Yeah I hear some phasiness. The kick is ever so slightly left and I'm hearing snare phase/reflection to the right. It doesn't sound terrible though. You're close. Keep playing with the overheads. There's a lot of hat and cymbals in that mix and the snare sounds kind of flat.

Are you close micing the kick and snare at all? Try micing them instead of the toms and see what happens.
 
Greg

Yeah I've got a mic on the snare and kick

wondering now if the phase issue is due to the snare mic and the OH's or between the OH's

maybe I just need to turn down the OH's in the mix if the hh and cymbals are too loud
 
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