Guitar String Tension after restringing

Thats exactly my point when I correct mirohurt.... You do not need to adjust the truss rod or fishing rig to get a working setup from the materials at hand. You can switch breaking strain or rod and still play the fish or the tune. Even if you did need to adjust it you wouldn't do it with a feeler gauge you would adjustdepending on how you play the fish and your technique.... correct?

Sort of. A powerful fish can actually snap a rod before it breaks the line. That happens quite often with big game fish like tuna and marlin. And I've broken rods just by casting very heavy baits. You'd think the line would pop first, and sometimes it does, but not always. Fishing line usually breaks due to fatigue or damage. But yeah, you could theoretically catch any fish on any set up if you work the fish correctly. The only realistic comparison I can make to what they're saying is if you use a light line on a very heavy rod, you could transfer too much of the load into the line. What makes this fishing comparison moot is that with fishing the forces at play can overpower the equipment, and there's the constantly changing human element of reeling in a fish. Those forces are infinitely more variable than anything you'd get on a guitar. There's nothing happening when simply tuning a guitar that can overpower a healthy guitar string. We're not talking about putting bass strings on a fucking ukulele. It's a string gauge change. Sure, the setup might need some minor tweaking, but going from one gauge to another within a reasonable range for guitar isn't going to fuck the world all up.

I recently accidentally put a G string where a B should go because I grabbed the wrong string and did it quick in the dark. I noticed that something felt off but didn't realize what I had actually done until the next morning. Hey, where's my G string? Why do I still have a B? Fuck! I put the G on the B! No problem. It tuned right up, played it all night, and nothing went haywire. Didn't even sound bad.
 
In fairness to miro though, I can see using a feeler gauge if you're super anal, which miro clearly is, or inexperienced. I can see someone just learning to set up a guitar using a feeler gauge to measure and understand how adjustments affect things. I don't think it's a bad thing to do. I'm no luthier though. I could set valve lash on an 8500 rpm racing small-block by feel and be within a few thousandths, but I'd really rather nail it with feeler gauges. Thankfully guitars don't have to be that precise and with some experience and knowing how you want the guitar to play you can do neck adjustments by feel. I don't fuck with stupid campfire guitars though. Things may be drastically different with those pieces of firewood.
 
The fish analogy doesnt work because its the weight of the fish that puts tension on the line, not the stiffness of the rod. The weight if the fish would be analogous to the tuning peg. A bigger fish would be the same as tightening the tuner, a smaller fish would be the same as loosening it. The rod in your analogy is the neck of the guitar. The stiffness of the rod doesn't determine the weight of the fish.
 
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Fishing tackle aside... :facepalm: :laughings: ... the use of precision tools to measure when setting up a guitar isn't odd or anal...it's about accuracy and consistency, and most every guitar tech probably has several tools in their kit.
By "ear and eye" gets you close but not as accurately when dealing with 0.1 mm and 1/10th cent differences if you want to maintain consistency, and when setting up multiple guitars to use.

Of course....when you have super-human eyesight and hearing like Muttley, then you don't need to.
His fish stories are always whoppers. :D
 
The fish analogy doesnt work because its the weight of the fish that puts tension on the line, not the stiffness of the rod. The weight if the fish would be analogous to the tuning peg. A bigger fish would be the same as tightening the tuner, a smaller fish would be the same as loosening it. The rod in your analogy is the neck of the guitar. The stiffness of the rod doesn't determine the weight of the fish.
But wait, there's more! The 4lb test line snaps when you catch a 60lb fish because it can only handle 4lbs, not because there is more tension. A 60lb fish would put 60lbs worth of tension on the line. Thicker line can hold more tension than thinner line can. The tension is the same in both examples.
 
But wait, there's more! The 4lb test line snaps when you catch a 60lb fish because it can only handle 4lbs, not because there is more tension. A 60lb fish would put 60lbs worth of tension on the line. Thicker line can hold more tension than thinner line can. The tension is the same in both examples.

Wrong....as far as fishing line and fish go.
 
Wrong....as far as fishing line and fish go.
OK, how so. (I don't fish) I am assuming dead fish, hanging. I'm not accounting for the added tension from dragging it through the water or it flopping around on the end of the line, because it isn't relevant to the analogy.
 
Fishing tackle aside... :facepalm: :laughings: ... the use of precision tools to measure when setting up a guitar isn't odd or anal...it's about accuracy and consistency, and most every guitar tech probably has several tools in their kit.
By "ear and eye" gets you close but not as accurately when dealing with 0.1 mm and 1/10th cent differences if you want to maintain consistency, and when setting up multiple guitars to use.

Of course....when you have super-human eyesight and hearing like Muttley, then you don't need to.
His fish stories are always whoppers. :D

:facepalm:

Just as like usual you guys are mostly over complicating this.

Physics is physics. It is what it is.

YOU DO NOT NEED FEELER GAUGES TO SETUP A GUITAR IN FACT I RECOMMEND YOU DONT EVEN TRY USING THEM.

Unless of course it is a bespoke Stew Mac design that they will sell you for a few hundred bucks then it's definitely what you need....:)
 
OK, how so. (I don't fish) I am assuming dead fish, hanging. I'm not accounting for the added tension from dragging it through the water or it flopping around on the end of the line, because it isn't relevant to the analogy.

Ah, okay. Yes a 60 pound dead fish hanging from a tree from a 4 lb line will break the line.

None of this has anything to do with guitar strings because a guitar string will not break at it's correct pitch and scale length.
 
Yeah the fishing comparison is a real stretch - no pun intended. Not a good analogy.

Nah it is valid to a point if you exclude certain obvious and unavoidable factors. As a physics exercise the same forces are at work just in different ways.... I would completely agree that it is not helpful but it does give some a way to wriggle off the hook....:)
 
Hey look.... I'm doing a nice blue green burst flame ash strat style at the moment with a rosewood fb and maple neck. Shall I post some pictures of that instead then we can forget about all those bridge pins popping and miro can have the last word and we can all move on...

Yes gerg I know strats are teh geigh..:thumbs up:
 
Ah, okay. Yes a 60 pound dead fish hanging from a tree from a 4 lb line will break the line.

None of this has anything to do with guitar strings because a guitar string will not break at it's correct pitch and scale length.
Right, I was just trying to use his analogy to explain why the truss rod doesn't put more tension on the string when tuned to pitch.

He thinks the size of the fish is analogous to the truss tension. He also thinks that thinner strings/fishing lines break because there is more tension exerted on them. Both are false.

The fish in the analogy will be the tuning peg.
The rod in the analogy would be the guitar neck
 
Yall have lost me with all this fish talk. I'm just gonna go with muttley on this because he actually builds guitars.
 
Having been a pro guitarist for over 45 years I have seen you problem especially on some fender models, if the string comes up from the back of the guitar this often happens with light gauge strings particularly E & B... If this is your problem try this simple fix (Some brands are better than others of course) Get a piece of hook up wire, peel of about 2" of the outer cable, effectively leaving you with a piece of thin plastic tube, put a piece of this over the strings that break and push down to the ferule. Stating the obvious you are tuning to concert pitch aren't you.? Failing that over the years I have had strings that had a factory problem and couldn't be tuned for love or money. My personal feeling is, if you are playing acoustic guitar heavier string are far more tonal. To check its your guitar and not string if you have another guitar or a friends guitar put one on that and see if it will tune without breaking, if not its the string........

The difference between a large pizza and a muso is You can feed a family with a large pizza.
 
Sorry for all this debate.
No no- the thing is all the fun and what ever everyone brings to or gets out of this.
We stray', maybe get good tech'y stuff out of it :p
But lets take it back to the point. What actually did happen with your slightly diff gauge strings?
Yeah I just ordered new strings.

They were about 6 semi-tones flat and felt like they were going to break. One string actually ripped a peg out of the saddle at one point. I thought they might not be seated right in the saddle, but it looks fine.

They are gauge .12-.53. I normally use .13-.56. Would that make such a difference?

I should clarify this is an acoustic guitar not a bass.
To me it reads' like (maybe?) you felt the lighter strings were going too tight before they got up to pitch? (or as Greg colorfully put it, WTF did 'going to snap' mean? ;)

The pin coming out-- that could of been it just wasn't in tight or an improper fit thing..?

One of my guesses was that stupid pet trick where the string feels' wrong (too loose' in this case?), so we miss going past pitch..
 
I admit to being flummoxed by this whole thread.


I have been playing guitar since 1966, and have, since then, changed hundreds of sets of strings. I've variously switched from heavy to medium to light according to my whim at the time, and I've done this on an assortment of acoustic and electric guitars. And I have done all this string changing without experiencing the problems described, and without need to adjust anything.

Is it maybe just that I've led a charmed life?
 
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