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Greg_L
Banned
I was the only one that was right in this thread when I set you n00bs straight about fishing.
JCH
El Nacho
Greg_L said:
I proved you wrong with the graphic.
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Greg_L
Banned
In my lifetime of freshwater and saltwater fishing, I've never seen or heard of a guy sitting on a rock fishing with a guitar, so I'm calling bullshit on your graphic.
muttley600
Banned
We are going to have to wait for VP to drop by for a ruling on this one....
Farview
Well-known member
Xplosivetoyz: The strings exert tension on the neck, the neck does not exert tension on the strings.
Lighter strings will vibrate at a higher frequency than heavier strings at the same length and tension. So it takes less tention to get a lighter string to pitch than it would a heavier one on the same guitar. lighter strings tuned the same way on the same guitar will have less tension. Because they have less tension, the truss rod might need to be adjusted so that the neck has the appropriate relief for the tension being put on it.
Muttley, you choked on the fact that I didn't mention every variable possible in the scenario when I said that light string 'want' to vibrate faster. I guess I needed to say that for a given tension and a given length, strings of the same material density will vibrate faster the thinner and therefor lighter they are.
The problem with a sentance like that is that it is so long and has so many caviats thatit is hard to follow and the OP would probably miss the point. So I oversimplified it to put emphasis on the point that putting lighter strings on that guitar would result in less tension and the tension would not be the reason the pegs were pulling.
Lighter strings will vibrate at a higher frequency than heavier strings at the same length and tension. So it takes less tention to get a lighter string to pitch than it would a heavier one on the same guitar. lighter strings tuned the same way on the same guitar will have less tension. Because they have less tension, the truss rod might need to be adjusted so that the neck has the appropriate relief for the tension being put on it.
Muttley, you choked on the fact that I didn't mention every variable possible in the scenario when I said that light string 'want' to vibrate faster. I guess I needed to say that for a given tension and a given length, strings of the same material density will vibrate faster the thinner and therefor lighter they are.
The problem with a sentance like that is that it is so long and has so many caviats thatit is hard to follow and the OP would probably miss the point. So I oversimplified it to put emphasis on the point that putting lighter strings on that guitar would result in less tension and the tension would not be the reason the pegs were pulling.
Farview
Well-known member
Here is an experiment:
tune you high E string down to B. Now, you have two B strings, one with a lighter guage string, one heavier. Is there more tension on the heavier string, or the ligher one? Which one is easier to bend?
All other things being equal a lighter string will have less tension, the giveaway is that you have to loosen the E string to tune it down to a B. Tightening adds tension, loosening takes it away.
tune you high E string down to B. Now, you have two B strings, one with a lighter guage string, one heavier. Is there more tension on the heavier string, or the ligher one? Which one is easier to bend?
All other things being equal a lighter string will have less tension, the giveaway is that you have to loosen the E string to tune it down to a B. Tightening adds tension, loosening takes it away.
Farview
Well-known member
In post 15 I said that the peg was probably coming out because the string was not taking up as much room, I guess I assumed anyone reading would take that to mean that the peg hole is toobig and reamed out to have enough grip on the peg without the appropriate sized string to take up some of the room. ( since I assumed the pegs didnt pull out with the ussual guage of string he uses)
JCH
El Nacho
You can't deny the facts! Did you look at the graphic carefully? It's pretty obvious.
Good! He'll set this straight. He's an expert!We are going to have to wait for VP to drop by for a ruling on this one....
muttley600
Banned
No. When dealing with or explaining a physical phenomena you can not exclude ANY component factors that are dependent to the result or outcome. That is basic physics/maths/science. You may as well say that 1+2+ =5
Also some of the "variables" you quote are not variables they are constants. When talking acoustics you do not describe motion in terms of "vibrate" or "faster". Also "thin" is not a proper term when discussing acoustics or wave motion. Nor is "lighter". Nor is material density correct or relevant. Try frequency, displacement, mass per unit length and elasticity..Also there are no "caviats" in physical wave theory.
To finish. The pegs are likely to pull just as much with light gauge strings as heavy gauge strings. It is not a product of tension as the peg if reamed correctly will hold and only fail if the taper is damaged, if the ball end catches on the taper of the peg (common) or the bridge plate is damaged. Bridge pins when reamed correctly will hold far more tension than required. The string will break before the pin releases. The problem is almost certainly the pegs themselves or the taper or less common, bridge plate damage.
Now do you want me to mark your physics paper? I am qualified and mark many each semester.
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mixsit
Well-known member
Here, I got this.
Bobby Joe went out and fixed himself up a gut bucket so’s he could play in the jug band.
Found him a nice big hunk of rope, a stick and tub’. And he was all set.
Well everything was going good ok, but tugging to git those high D’s.. Well they was plumb making his arm tired! And one time, well damned if that ol stick didn’t snap’ an almost hit him in the eye!
Well, he begins to do some ciphering. And sure enough to pull them high D’s, farrr exceed the tensile strength of that ol stick!
But now he knew where he could git himself a chunk’a two inch pipe! He redid them cipherin.. same rope, same length..
Hmm. ‘Well, I still got to pull as hard.. But ain’t no way that sucker’s gona break!'
Well, back at the hoedown, they begin to razz him a bit? They ain’t never seen anything like that on a gut bucket.
“Dang Bobby you gona be ok with that you got there on that ‘bucket?”
“Well, my arm still gits sore tuggin them high D’s.. But least that dang stick ain’t gonn’a try ‘ta hit me in the eye no more!”
“..Yeah.. But.. Dang Bobby. Why don’t you jist get yer a piece’a lighter rope?”
This is a true story ya know.
JCH
El Nacho
Yeah, but will it catch fish?Here, I got this.
Bobby Joe went out and fixed himself up a gut bucket so’s he could play in the jug band.
Found him a nice big hunk of rope, a stick and tub’. And he was all set.
Well everything was going good ok, but tugging to git those high D’s.. Well they was plumb making his arm tired! And one time, well damned if that ol stick didn’t snap’ an almost hit him in the eye!
Well, he begins to do some ciphering. And sure enough to pull them high D’s, farrr exceed the tensile strength of that ol stick!
But now he knew where he could git himself a chunk’a two inch pipe! He redid them cipherin.. same rope, same length..
Hmm. ‘Well, I still got to pull as hard.. But ain’t no way that sucker’s gona break!'
Well, back at the hoedown, they begin to razz him a bit? They ain’t never seen anything like that on a gut bucket.
“Dang Bobby you gona be ok with that you got there on that ‘bucket?”
“Well, my arm still gits sore tuggin them high D’s.. But least that dang stick ain’t gonn’a try ‘ta hit me in the eye no more!”
“..Yeah.. But.. Dang Bobby. Why don’t you jist get yer a piece’a lighter rope?”
This is a true story ya know.
muttley600
Banned
here, i got this.
Bobby joe went out and fixed himself up a gut bucket so’s he could play in the jug band.
Found him a nice big hunk of rope, a stick and tub’. And he was all set.
Well everything was going good ok, but tugging to git those high d’s.. Well they was plumb making his arm tired! And one time, well damned if that ol stick didn’t snap’ an almost hit him in the eye!
well, he begins to do some ciphering. And sure enough to pull them high d’s, farrr exceed the tensile strength of that ol stick!
But now he knew where he could git himself a chunk’a two inch pipe! He redid them cipherin.. Same rope, same length..
Hmm. ‘well, i still got to pull as hard.. But ain’t no way that sucker’s gona break!'
well, back at the hoedown, they begin to razz him a bit? They ain’t never seen anything like that on a gut bucket.
“dang bobby you gona be ok with that you got there on that ‘bucket?”
“well, my arm still gits sore tuggin them high d’s.. But least that dang stick ain’t gonn’a try ‘ta hit me in the eye no more!”
“..yeah.. But.. Dang bobby. Why don’t you jist get yer a piece’a lighter rope?”
this is a true story ya know.
Graded D-
muttley600
Banned
Normally it would be graded E but I quite like the story...
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mixsit
Well-known member
Normally it would be graded E but I quite like the story...
A D- ? On what aspect?
I guess 'E' isn't for 'effort'
Oh well, I'm sacrificing grade concerns here in hopes of a more 'visual approach'? getting through to ..someone.
Farview
Well-known member
We are talking about two different gauge strings on the same guitar behaving differently. Bringing up every possible variable that isn't going to happen in the case at hand s a waste of time and probably confusing to someone who thinks that you need more tension on a light gauge string to bring up to pitch than a heavy gauge string. Giving someone an answer buried in a pile of detail irrelevant to the specific situation will only confuse the situation. Giving someone an answer in a way they can't understand it doesn't help either.
We are talking guitar strings on a guitar (same guitar, different gauge strings) Guitar strings are described as light, heavy, thick and thin all the time. I was describing the string in a manner he was describing it, so he knew what I was talking about. If we were discussing the differing behavior of steel strings vs. catgut, you might want to get into mass per unit length,elasticity, etc... but it seems he went to the store and picked up a pack of the wrong gauge of his favorite string so, barring any minute manufacturing variables, are exactly the same, just a different gauge.
We are talking guitar strings on a guitar. Guitar strings vibrate, it's a perfectly acceptable way to describe it. They can vibrate fast or slow, or at a high frequency or a low frequency, it means the exact same thing.
I agree, but that clearly isn't the case here, otherwise he would not have been blaming it on the lighter gauge strings.
OK, you got me. I described it as the peg hole being too big, you are saying that it is most likely the eg being too small/wrong shape to hold.
I said I DIDN'T think it was necessary to type out a physics term paper...I still don't.