Guitar String Tension after restringing

miroslav said:
I don't know that you ever even read any posts longer than one sentance to know what's in them. :D

Like I said....there's plenty of info in the posts, and initially directed at the folks who said you don't need to adjust the truss rod.
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You may not need to adjust the truss rod. Often you do not.

The truss rod is not the problem here. Start reading the OP posts and stop posting long wordy posts....
 
miroslav said:
:facepalm:

Maybe if you DID read my earlier post....you would comprehend that I wasn't responding to the original topic of the popping strings....but rather specifically to the comments about the need for truss rod adjustments with string gauge changes, and I asked a question to those people who said you don't need to adjust truss rods with string gauge changes.

If you weren't too focused on just making some negative comments in my direction....you would see that the popping strings issues wasn't mentioned by me. That was already resolved...and the topic segued a bit to truss rods/string gauges.

I'm sure you'll have more to say though....
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Yes, and I corrected you there too..

I set up and adjust more guitars in a month than the average word count in one of your posts so my money is on the short to the point post...

Your go.


:eatpopcorn:
 
muttley600 said:
Yes, and I corrected you there too..
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Really...?....corrected me about what?
You don't even read my post....you totally miss the fact that I was asking a specific question about the secondary topic (not the popping strings/pins)....and now you're off on some "Muttley is always right" counter-argument, about something I wasn't even talking about.

Everything I posted about the relationship between string gauge changes and the need to check/adjust truss rods is 100% spot-on. Also, the use of a feeler gauge or other precise measuring tools is pretty common, and recommended for setting up truss rods and string height....since not everyone has super-human eyesight like you. ;)

Enjoy your rebuttal ...I'm going back to get ready to watch the next World Cup match.
Did you stop watching....now that England is out?
 
LOL! I leave for a few hours and come back to this! I think that we can all agree on one point, and that point is this: when one changes string gauges the truss rod may, or may not, need adjusting. It at least needs to be checked. I still maintain that if a guitars neck relief is set-up for a heavy gauge string and one switches to a much lighter gauge string without re-adjusting neck relief, the lighter gauge string will be under more tension to bring it up to pitch than the heavy gauge string. The reason being is because the lighter gauge string has to overcome the stiffness of the non-adjusted neck. Now have at it! LOL! :eatpopcorn:
 
XploZiveToyz said:
LOL! I leave for a few hours and come back to this! I think that we can all agree on one point, and that point is this: when one changes string gauges the truss rod may, or may not, need adjusting. It at least needs to be checked. I still maintain that if a guitars neck relief is set-up for a heavy gauge string and one switches to a much lighter gauge string without re-adjusting neck relief, the lighter gauge string will be under more tension to bring it up to pitch than the heavy gauge string. The reason being is because the lighter gauge string has to overcome the stiffness of the non-adjusted neck. Now have at it! LOL! :eatpopcorn:
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Then you insist on being wrong. The neck reacts to the tension on the string, not the other way around.

1. IF you had the string tuned to pitch, then adjusted the truss rod so the neck was pulling against it harder, the string tension would go up, but so would the pitch. Then you would tune the string back to pitch by loosening it ( lowering the tension) until it was back at the proper pitch.

2. If the strings had more tension, they would be pulling harder on the neck and need the truss rod to be tighter. The reason the neck is bowed back with the lighter strings is because they don't have as much tension and don't pull as hard on the neck.
 
Wrong. Because of the neck's stiffness set for the heavier gauge strings, the lighter strings would have to pull harder. You have it backwards. Perhaps Muttley can enlighten you when he wakes up. What's your opinion Miro? LOL!
 
XploZiveToyz said:
Wrong. Because of the neck's stiffness set for the heavier gauge strings, the lighter strings would have to pull harder. You have it backwards. Perhaps Muttley can enlighten you when he wakes up. What's your opinion Miro? LOL!
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Seriously, you've got it backwards.
 
XploZiveToyz said:
Wrong. Because of the neck's stiffness set for the heavier gauge strings, the lighter strings would have to pull harder. You have it backwards. Perhaps Muttley can enlighten you when he wakes up. What's your opinion Miro? LOL!
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He already said I was right. Look at post 57.

You adjust the tension of the string with the tuners, not the truss rod. If the string is at pitch, it will be the same tension no matter how tight or loos the neck is. That string tuned to that pitch not matter what. If the truss rod is tight, the neck will be back bowed, if the truss rod is loose it will be bowed the other way, but the string will be at what ever tension it needs to be to be tuned to that pitch.

I'm not sure how else to say it. The pitch of the string is dependent on the tension (assuming same string same guitar, blah, blah, blah). If the tension were different, the pitch would be different.
 
miroslav said:
Really...?....corrected me about what?
You don't even read my post....you totally miss the fact that I was asking a specific question about the secondary topic (not the popping strings/pins)....and now you're off on some "Muttley is always right" counter-argument, about something I wasn't even talking about.

Everything I posted about the relationship between string gauge changes and the need to check/adjust truss rods is 100% spot-on. Also, the use of a feeler gauge or other precise measuring tools is pretty common, and recommended for setting up truss rods and string height....since not everyone has super-human eyesight like you. ;)

Enjoy your rebuttal ...I'm going back to get ready to watch the next World Cup match.
Did you stop watching....now that England is out?
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No, what you posted was bollox. Using a feeler gauge to adjust neck relief is at best anal and proof in your case of your Aspergers. I will continue to correct bollox when it is posted.

The problem is not the truss rod or the neck relief. You do not always need to adjust the truss rod when changing string gauge. you do not need to use a feeler gauge to set the relief as you are not gaping spark plugs. Action, neck relief and truss rod adjustment are done on an individual basis to suit the player, the desired action, the string gauge and the neck material...
 
XploZiveToyz said:
LOL! I leave for a few hours and come back to this! I think that we can all agree on one point, and that point is this: when one changes string gauges the truss rod may, or may not, need adjusting. It at least needs to be checked. I still maintain that if a guitars neck relief is set-up for a heavy gauge string and one switches to a much lighter gauge string without re-adjusting neck relief, the lighter gauge string will be under more tension to bring it up to pitch than the heavy gauge string. The reason being is because the lighter gauge string has to overcome the stiffness of the non-adjusted neck. Now have at it! LOL! :eatpopcorn:
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No that is bollox. A strings pitch is dependent on the strings mass per unit length, length and tension. for any given pitch they are constant. If you change one you change the others. You are not changing any of them. What you are changing is the compression force applied to the neck.
 
XploZiveToyz said:
Wrong. Because of the neck's stiffness set for the heavier gauge strings, the lighter strings would have to pull harder. You have it backwards. Perhaps Muttley can enlighten you when he wakes up. What's your opinion Miro? LOL!
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The job of the truss rod is to counter the pull of the strings. It is a physical impossibility for what you suggest to be the case. It may take more force to achieve the specified tension but the tension would be what it is for the pitch you want. It would not increase because of the neck or it's relief. The tension part is a constant for any given string pitch.
 
Muttley is correct, but I still don't get it. Say you have a fishing pole with a light line on it. If you catch a small fish there won't be as much tension on the line and no need to worry about the line snapping. However if you catch a big, heavy fish, there will be more tension on the line, not less. Hell, the line might even snap! The same principal applies here. If you put very light strings on a guitar with a neck set for very heavy strings without readjusting the neck, you could very easily cause the strings to snap trying to bring it to pitch. I still maintain that the light string would have more force(tension) against it than a heavy gauge string. If we were all in a pub together with a guitar and strings I could prove my point. This is simple physics. I don't understand how you can't see that. But what the hell? It's a hundred dollar guitar and it's given us something to debate about! LOL!
 
XploZiveToyz said:
Muttley is correct, but I still don't get it. Say you have a fishing pole with a light line on it. If you catch a small fish there won't be as much tension on the line and no need to worry about the line snapping. However if you catch a big, heavy fish, there will be more tension on the line, not less. Hell, the line might even snap! The same principal applies here. If you put very light strings on a guitar with a neck set for very heavy strings without readjusting the neck, you could very easily cause the strings to snap trying to bring it to pitch. I still maintain that the light string would have more force(tension) against it than a heavy gauge string. If we were all in a pub together with a guitar and strings I could prove my point. This is simple physics. I don't understand how you can't see that. But what the hell? It's a hundred dollar guitar and it's given us something to debate about! LOL!
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This is exactly the point that is trying to be made clear.

Think of it like this. The fish is the string gauge. The lighter fish bends the fishing rod less (truss rod). A heavier fish will bend the fishing rod (truss rod) more so you need a stiffer rod to achieve the same degree of flex.

The pitch that is made by the fish as it runs the line will be dependent on the length of the line and the force that the fish applies.

In our world the tension is set by the tuner (fixed). The length is set by the fret or nut (fixed). The stiffness is set by the material of the string (fixed). The neck just sets the anchor point (bridge and saddle or fret and saddle).

The neck will find a place of rest for the tension in the string regardless. It may bend the neck, it may not, some necks will flex more easily and need truss rod help, others will be stiff enough and not need much or any truss rod flex. If the neck flex's too much the string length shortens for the same tension....
 
No. The fishing pole analogy is whack because I can catch a 60 pound fish on 4lb test line if I work it correctly. Abrasions break fishing line, not fish weight. Also, the weight of a fish in the water is not the weight of the fish in your hand while you throw it in the cooler. A fish generally gives you about a third of it's weight in fight and they're buoyant. Unless you catch a dead fish on dry land, you're not pulling it's actual weight.

Fuck all this acoustic guitar talk, I just had to set the fishing thing straight.
 
Greg_L said:
No. The fishing pole analogy is whack because I can catch a 60 pound fish on 4lb test line if I work it correctly. Abrasions break fishing line, not fish weight. Also, the weight of a fish in the water is not the weight of the fish in your hand while you throw it in the cooler. A fish generally gives you about a third of it's weight in fight and they're buoyant. Unless you catch a dead fish on dry land, you're not pulling it's actual weight.

Fuck all this acoustic guitar talk, I just had to set the fishing thing straight.
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Thats exactly my point when I correct mirohurt.... You do not need to adjust the truss rod or fishing rig to get a working setup from the materials at hand. You can switch breaking strain or rod and still play the fish or the tune. Even if you did need to adjust it you wouldn't do it with a feeler gauge you would adjust depending on how you play the fish and your technique.... correct?

Lat year I landed a 60lb fish (well 52Lb conga) on 10Lb line. I had to play it right or the line would snag or the fish would jump the hook, or the fish would hit the reef or the fish would break the line... I didn't need feeler gauges though.... and I am no fisherman despite growing up on the beech.
 
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