Guitar Amps

[Kingofpain678]

ok so after searching long and hard for amps i found a crate GX900H head and a crate blue voodoo cab. i really like the tone i get from this combination of head and cab. even though its solid state....

so i took a look inside the cab to check out what kinda speakers i had.... well their unmarked... just all black, no label, no sticker, nothing.

and like i said, i really like the tone of this amp, only problem is that when i stick a microphone in front of it, the sound is terrible, and no its not the tone, its cause the low end COMPLETELY undefined, it sounds like nothing but a big blur.

could someone PLEASE tell me if this is just the sound that the head produces or could this be the speakers?????? PLEASE HELP

 

[Dani Pace]

It could be your mic or the mic placement. Also the amp volume, too loud will cause some mics to distort, especially on the lows. If you are cloce micing, try backing the mic away from the amp. Also the angle of the mic in relation to the amp will have an affect on what the mic "hears." You might try lowering the bass a bit on your amp and boost the mids a little, this can help a lot to lessen bottom end slur. The tone that sounds good when listening is not always the tone that records best, it takes practice to discover what works best.

 

[Kingofpain678]

thanks for your reply Dani Pace! but the thing is, i have tried all that. 5 different microphones, every different angle i could possibly come up with, i have tried literally every single volume, eq, and gain setting i could come up with. i tried EQing it with a 7 band eq, a 31 band eq, ive tried compressing it, gating it. ive sat here for probably a total of over 72 hours trying to get a usable recording tone out if it.

and as you might have guessed by now i have definitely, DEFINITELY learned my lesson of "what tone you like may not always be the best for recording".

i believe i have ruled out everything leaving the problem to either the generic speakers or my crate just plain out sucks.

 

[charness]

it probably has nothing to do with the crate. plenty of people get good sounds out of that amp. it might be that you are totally clueless as to what you are doing. did you try asking your mommy for some help? was she too busy out working to support you so you could stay home all day and play music producer?

why dont you get some books on recording and try (probably for once in your life) to figure something out on your own?

 

[Kingofpain678]

im definitely still open to suggestions though

 

[Erockrazor]

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

Read this and it will cover anything I could have said plus 100 times more. No seriously, maybe read it 3 times over a week's span. Or Four. Then electric guitar recordings might make a little more sense.


It's not your speakers because then it wouldn't sound good to your ears. Directional microphones have a proximity effect, meaning as they get really close to the source, it boost's the low end.

So if your low end sounds GREAT maybe back up the mic a few feet from the amp. Do a few different placements and record a few tracks. You can AB the differences and get a feel for how mic placement works.

Also, if you post a sample of your recording sometimes we can better assist. Along with a description of your signal chain can maybe hone in on a possible fix.

Good luck, Eric

 

[darrin_h2000]

Its kinda a rule to find the distorted tone you want...then pull back a little because the recording will exagerrate it a bit.

Keep the mic arround 4 o'clock on one of the speakers 2/3 of the way from the center to the edge...and 2" away.

Is one of those mics an SM57...that would give us a hint so we can better advise you...I think most of us use them for this pourpose...Ive been experimenting with a Senn MD421 and I might switch for good.

 

[dintymoore]

... i believe i have ruled out everything leaving the problem to either the generic speakers or my crate just plain out sucks.

Now this is just my opinion (1 guy out of 6.5 billion), but everything I've ever heard from Crate was total garbage. Like the worst of the worst. I just can't imagine getting a good sound out of their stuff. The speaker is probably fine, I think it's the amp electronics and the enclosure materials. If it's got a metal grille hit that with your hand and ask yourself if it doesn't sound near identical to a garbage can lid.

For a cheap good amp the Pignose G40V amp is a great buy, especially if you use a 12" with it, but it's not a loud amp.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Tech21 makes the nicest stuff too.

 

[Big Kenny]

There are so many inexpensive, nice sounding amps out there..... Have you tried recording any other amps besides the Crate? I haven't found an amp that I can't get a usable track from, not to say I liked it, but the client did.

 

[Seafroggys]

A general idea to follow when recording, is to turn down the bass, turn down the gain, and raise the mids. Turn treble to taste. This is compared to your 'standard' tone settings.

Oftentimes I find myself turning bass to really low levels, like no higher than 3, so it doesn't interfere at all with any of the bass instrumentation.

 

[Dani Pace]

A fast way to find out if it's the head or the speaker is to record a track or two DI. If the DI track still is garbled on the lows then it is likely the head. If the DI track is clear then its probably the speaker (possibly the cab). Are you sitting the amp (speaker) on the floor or raising it up? Often amps sound better when you get them off the floor, especially the lower frequencies.

 

[Kingofpain678]

ok first off i have to say. WOW!!!! i absolutely cannot believe all the great positive feed back i have gotten, i really appreciate the effort you guys have put into helping me out

and second, yes i am using an sm57, as for the slipperman read i will definitely give it read.

as for the crate is total garbage remark, i think i have to agree lol. i have a Marshall 1x12 combo and i tried micing it up and the sound i get has the clarity and definition i was wanting but my only problem is that is does not have enough gain. maybe i should check out some distortion pedals to get a suitable amount of gain? i do know that your supposed to back off the gain a bit while recording but i was thinking of maybe a boss metal zone and just keeping the gain at 12' o clock...

ill def. keep working with the crate and using all the tips you all have given me while i await more responses.


much appreciated - Nic

 

[dintymoore]

I didn't mean to be offensive with the Crate is Crap remark and feel better knowing you have a Marshall amp. Even if it's solid state, I can't imagine it's not way better than the Crate.

I wasn't sure what you meant by you can't get enough gain out of the Marshall, since you're recording why do you need a lot of gain? Or maybe it's to play live with a band.

When somebody posts something like they are using a Crate amp and can't get a good sound, I always react to it like they'd asked "I'm eating a dog shit sandwich, why doesn't it taste good?". I feel bad for people trying to do this. Don't torture yourself - it's like using the wrong screwdriver for hours.

Good luck on it - it doesn't have to cost a fortune... I got a blown out Alamo tube guitar amp for $15 awhile ago, needs some work but sounds good. my favorite "amp" for recording guitar is a Sony tube reel to reel my Grandma bought in the late 50's. We still have the tapes she made on it. It's probably 1 watt max and way better for recording than the two Fender tube amps I have here, a Champ and a Blues Jr.. Those amps are too big for recording to me. The Sony is I believe Model 001, and the speaker is something like a 4" oval, and it's all the original tubes, never been worked on and works perfect. That Sony sounds absolutely beautiful - super sweet, to me sounds like the Beatles.

So I'd look around for anything "tube", like an old TV, console stereo, tape recorder, home organ and you could come up with a great amp for peanuts. I would put more faith in that than in anything from Musician's Friend.

 

[Kingofpain678]

haha no offense taken! sometimes you just cant around the fact that something sucks lol. as the sayings go, "if you have crap going into a microphone youll have crap coming out" and "you cant polish a turd".

as for the marshall not having enough gain, i plan on recording some metal distortion guitar tracks and my little solid state marshall just wont cut it by itself, so im thinking of getting a distortion pedal and a tube preamp and run them in front of the amp to warm up the tone a bit.

and ya know i have never ever thought of using anything other than an actual tube guitar amplifier as an amp. it never crossed my mind to use vacuum tube electronic device as an amp and i gotta say that's brilliant! i bet you could get all kinds of great new tones out of using odd older electronic equipment and ill be sure to keep my eye out from now on!


so does anyone have any input on the distortion pedal and tube preamp idea? the only reason i would need them is to get a good metal guitar tone. i love the clean on my Marshall, and i love the blues crunch i get out of it, its just that the distortion Chanel just doesnt seem fitting for what im trying to achieve tone wise. so im hoping that by running the tube pre and distortion pedal through the clean channel ill be able to keep the clarity and definition in my distortion as well as warm up the tone a bit with the tubes of the pre.

thanks in advance for any input and as always much appreciated - Nic

 

[theCKWilliams]

i've used the metal zone for years, love it, as far as stompboxes go. very versatile, found my best recording results for heavy high gain metal stuff to be round 10oclock to just under 12. you'll see when you start recording it. good pedal though. dont know how it'll sound through a marshall though. never owned one. mainly Laney, fender, peavey combo amps.

 

[Kingofpain678]

ah. im hoping it will be a good combination. the marshall even when on the heaviest distortion channel it has, it still retains clarity and definition which (as i had stated before) was what my other amp lacked. the cleans i get from the marshall are clear as a bell and sound great so im hoping that by using another source of distortion ill get a little more gain out of it and perhaps a slightly different tone and keeping the overall clarity.

i have owned many distortion pedals before and i have to agree - the metal zone is one of better stomp pedals out there although i find its a bit sterile. hoping a cheap tube preamp will solve that problem. im open to any product or technique suggestions...

hopefully if all goes well i will be able to get the high gain metal sound ive been craving and be able to keep a great clean tone and blues crunch at my disposal. i look forward to getting more great feedback!

(this site is great!!!)