Good Affordable Sound Card

PoorBoyRecordings

PoorBoyRecordings

New member
I hope I posted this in the right forum and to the Moderator of this forum ... I apologize if it is wrong.

I am leaning more and more to digital recording over analog and would like some advice on a good, affordable
USB sound card. I have only found a couple and the were at the $1000 range for each one. My computer has
USB 3.0 and could REALLY use some help with this one.

Steve
 
A "sound card" is generally an audio card that fits in the computer via PCI slot or PCIe slot. If you are looking to connect via USB then you are looking for an "Audio Interface" They range from 2 inputs and 2 outputs for 150 bucks all the way up to 24 inputs and outputs for 3 or 4 thousand.

So, what do you want to record ? How many inputs and outputs do you anticipate needing? What is the quality of the rest of your gear and your recording room? Do have an analogue console? or are you working all in the box? What DAW are you using?
 
I have an EMU-1212m. the software is a bit squirrelly at first until you figure out that you have to look at the software as a separate mixer and not as a a computer. Once you do that its great.
 
Perhaps the easiest way for the noob to decide the sort of interface* he needs is to look at how he/she records?

Is it, will it only ever be a solo exercise? If so there is little point in buying an interface with more than two microphone/line/instrument inputs. Only got two hands and one gob!
In this class are.
Steinberg UR22
Focusrite 2i4
And several others by Tascam, Presonus, Roland et al (I strongly advise getting an interface with MIDI. Should add buggerall to the cost!) .

More line inputs will be found on such products as the Native Instrument KA6 (my top recc!) and F'rite 6i6 but you will need a mixer or pre amp to use mics on them, Still, might have an old synth you can shove thru!

After that you move onto multi-input jobs like the Tascam US1800, probably THE best value multitrack AI around.

ALL these products (and more) will give you superb sound quality, "better" than CD and the limiting factors are, big ones I am afraid: Skill, room acoustics, talent.

*Do not pass up an internal soundcard if a good one comes your way cheaply. An M-Audio Delta 2496 (better an AP192) for $50 or so is worth having since it will give you a very high quality playback system self contained in the PC. Other USB interfaces can be plugged/unplugged with impunity. I have 2x2496 in this PC but regularly swop in an out on a KA6 or an 8i6.

Dave.
 
Yeah, the USB units are nice, but I prefer sound cards myself. I run an SSL Pre-amp SPDIF into an M-Audio 192 PCI card. The latency is super low and I'm taking advantage of the SSL convertors which are some of the best on the market. Simple set-up, super clean sound. I run a vox guitar tube preamp into the other channel for recording into electric guitar sims.
 
PDP said:
Yeah, the USB units are nice, but I prefer sound cards myself. I run an SSL Pre-amp SPDIF into an M-Audio 192 PCI card. The latency is super low and I'm taking advantage of the SSL convertors which are some of the best on the market. Simple set-up, super clean sound. I run a vox guitar tube preamp into the other channel for recording into electric guitar sims.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear here. If you have a nice converter like the SSL you do not need a superb PCI card like the 192. You could run the S/PDIF into a 20quid Trust Optical Expert!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Just to be clear here. If you have a nice converter like the SSL you do not need a superb PCI card like the 192. You could run the S/PDIF into a 20quid Trust Optical Expert!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I found the 192 for 90 bucks on Ebay, so it just worked out it was cheap enough to keep when I got the SSL, plus I do go through it with my guitar.
 
PDP said:
Exactly, I found the 192 for 90 bucks on Ebay, so it just worked out it was cheap enough to keep when I got the SSL, plus I do go through it with my guitar.
Click to expand...

Jammy sod!
I looked for a 192 some 8 months ago and found they were unobtainable in UK. They were $199+ shipping from the States. I found one in a computer shop but it was £200. I really wanted the 192 to replace a 2496 to give balanced input from my A&H ZED10 but I can build a bloody good balanced input device for a lot less than £200!

Presently the Zed gets unbal'ed by a pair of OEP Walter 10k bridging traffs and since the 2496 has a max input of just +2dBV (and I never get close to that!) I doubt they have any audible effect?

The whole lot fetches up through a pair of Tannoy 5a's. What monitors are you using?

Dave.
 
Yeah, I wasn't even looking for that card but I know they go for more so I grabbed it. I use Adam A7x's they are great, really easy to learn. Before the Adams I had those same Tannoys. Those are nice too, but once I heard the Adams I had to have them. I found a pair used for a 1100.00 in new condition. There are a lot of great deals on Ebay in the US if you are patient.
 
ecc83 said:
Jammy sod!
I looked for a 192 some 8 months ago and found they were unobtainable in UK. They were $199+ shipping from the States. I found one in a computer shop but it was £200. I really wanted the 192 to replace a 2496 to give balanced input from my A&H ZED10 but I can build a bloody good balanced input device for a lot less than £200!

Presently the Zed gets unbal'ed by a pair of OEP Walter 10k bridging traffs and since the 2496 has a max input of just +2dBV (and I never get close to that!) I doubt they have any audible effect?

The whole lot fetches up through a pair of Tannoy 5a's. What monitors are you using?

Dave.
Click to expand...


I've got an old M-Audio Delta 192 for sale if you are interested? I no longer need it since getting an audient interface, it's in good condition as well.
 
PDP said:
A "sound card" is generally an audio card that fits in the computer via PCI slot or PCIe slot. If you are looking to connect via USB then you are looking for an "Audio Interface" They range from 2 inputs and 2 outputs for 150 bucks all the way up to 24 inputs and outputs for 3 or 4 thousand.

So, what do you want to record ? How many inputs and outputs do you anticipate needing? What is the quality of the rest of your gear and your recording room? Do have an analogue console? or are you working all in the box? What DAW are you using?
Click to expand...

Thx PDP. You already answered my question. I don't need an internal sound as what I was talking about. The USB Audio Interface sends the sound to the computer and the computer does the processing and sends it back in ways. So simple. Presently I am using my computers built in sound card (analog) and using an analog Yamaha MG8/2FX mixer. I know, the systems internal sound card just doesn't cut it but all I have till I upgrade with the help from what everyone wrote/said. Thx a million guys.
 
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Btyre2013 said:
I've got an old M-Audio Delta 192 for sale if you are interested? I no longer need it since getting an audient interface, it's in good condition as well.
Click to expand...

Ah, not a good time. Bit of a family health crisis on at the moment and travelling is costing me. Then, car MOT due next month FKns what that will cost me!

I am certainly interested Mr B and if it is still around in say 3 months time maybe we can talk turkey?
But please don't hang on to it if you get a good offer.

Dave.
 
My research has brought me to a site and engineers, especially this guy named Vin Curigliano, who really know their stuff regarding measuring Round Trip Latency (RTL) and having developed a true measurement tool so that musicians can have real world, practical numbers to evaluate when choosing sound cards for recording. This project (link below) is slightly over 3 years going and has just been updated with the latest results.

It's unfortunate that so many sound card manufacturers do not truly understand low latency and the real musicians' needs. What they advertise and market as "low latency" has been proven to be false or massaged numbers (see report below). IF we continue to share this knowledge and benchmark, it can only do good for musicians everywhere.

For what it's worth, USB 2.0 is generally the worst medium for professional recording. It's the slowest and can have electrical current issues that affect the sound. Occasionally, you'll find one that is okay if you are only recording a couple tracks, but if you do many live inputs at the same time, you need a superior interface. To my knowledge, no sound card manufacturer has created an external device utilizing USB 3.0. 'Have no idea why not. PCI is superior, but is now considered legacy technology, being replaced by PCI Expresss (PCIe). The companies whose cards are the best use PCIe (RME, Lynx uses Thunderbolt) and these cards are at the $1000+ mark. I just discovered, from the list below, that there is a very good, budget PCIe sound card for recording musicians by the company ESI called the Julia XTe. Can be had for $200 online.

When looking at the chart in the link (below), realize that the best card is at the top, and sets the curve for all the others, i.e. RME's HDSPe PCIe card is illustrated at 10, or 100%. The following link is part 3 of 3 of the project, so you'll want to go back to part 1 (link at the bottom of that page) and start from the beginning. Read and enjoy:

DAW Bench : DAW Performance Benchmarking


And here is the definition of RTL and the refined tool to measure it:

http://www.oblique-audio.com/free/rtlutility
 
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Yes indeed, Vin's investigations have been a revelation and have put many an industry nose out of joint! There is a very long and continuing thread on SoS forum.

I regard the adverse comment about USB 2.0 needlessly alarmist. The protocol might not have been first choice for "professionals" but is increasingly so. All the major players, RME, MOTU, and many others now have USB 2.0 interfaces, many are USB/FW and there seems to be nothing between the systems. USB has come of age, mainly due to the efforts of companies like RME. My NI KA6 is the equal of my 2496 PCI card in every way except 4dB quieter! Plus it has 2 extra ins and outs!

HAD the computer manufacturers fitted TI FW chips as standard. HAD FW AI builders got their drivers/compatibility sorted out. HAD they put the grunt into laptops and 6pin ports, we might now be enjoying FW interface operation as easy and "universal" as USB 2.0 now is....But they didn't.

Some old "Pros" might be anti-USB 2.0 but then this is HOME Recording forum!

USB 3.0 is among us! The current issue of SoS carries a review of the RME USB MADI interfaces. Note too that if you can struggle by with 70(!) or fewer tracks the unit will run on USB TWO!

Dave.
 
There was nothing "alarmist" about my post. Everything I wrote was true. In fact, Vin Curigliano states the same thing on his website about USB 2.0 interfaces and then makes special note of a very few exceptional cases.

And the cases you just mentioned, like Vin mentions, are not anything close to what the name of this thread is entitled, "Good Affordable Sound card".

The exceptional USB 2.0 cases, such as the RME Babyface is $700+,

And MOTU does not even have a USB 2.0 only device on Vin's list of recommended and tested devices. The closest thing, the MOTU Hybrid USB 2.0/FW 838Mk3, sells for $750.

Like you said, "This is HOME Recording forum!", which is why I bothered to write and mentioned the ESI Julia ETe card.
 
Toddskins said:
There was nothing "alarmist" about my post. Everything I wrote was true. In fact, Vin Curigliano states the same thing on his website about USB 2.0 interfaces and then makes special note of a very few exceptional cases.

And the cases you just mentioned, like Vin mentions, are not anything close to what the name of this thread is entitled, "Good Affordable Sound card".

The exceptional USB 2.0 cases, such as the RME Babyface is $700+,

And MOTU does not even have a USB 2.0 only device on Vin's list of recommended and tested devices. The closest thing, the MOTU Hybrid USB 2.0/FW 838Mk3, sells for $750.

Like you said, "This is HOME Recording forum!", which is why I bothered to write and mentioned the ESI Julia ETe card.
Click to expand...

Hi Todd,
I said "alarmist" because USB AIs are all the home recordist can buy and use for the most part now. Virtually no PCs have FW ports now. Yes you could fit a PCIe (PCI slots are becoming RHS!) FW card but more expense and you still can't take the AI down a mates!
Yes, you can use an adaptor with TB, more cost, same problem with portability.

There ARE a few modestly priced USB2.0 AIs with good RTL. Vin singles out the NI KA6 (sub £200) as exceptional for the price. Even the venerable M-A Fast track pro is not far behind it!

Vin's research is of immense value. It is difficult to quantify the improvements in latency that have been made because of it, more power to his elbow and may he keep tweaking corporate noses for as long as it takes to get ALL AIs at least as good as the KA6 which, I might add, I bought solely on the strength of his tests.

However, it is quite obvious that the vast majority of USB interface users are happy with their latency performance since I see very few complaints about this on forums. Home recordists it seems use the "zero latency" option. If you are simply "track grabbing" latency is of no concern at all. Many PC people grew their recording interest from tape where of course the replay head "latency" is bloody awful!

Compared to the almost daily complaints we saw about FW incompatibility USB AIs have a virtual "zero defect" performance. In any case FussyWire has gone. USB 2. is now the preferred connection for audio and companies like RME and NI have shown that it need not be any kind of second fiddle to firewire for low latency. Yes, I fervently hope USB3.0 will come on stream very soon in affordable devices but its main impact for the home jockey IMHO will be the near doubled bus power.

Dave.
 
I just took a look at your NI KA6 on Amazon and it sure looks great. Most of the reviewers love how it feels saying it is hefty. There are a few sour notes in the group, but the very first review seems great. He said he is routing his guitar signal TWICE via Ableton LIVE and cannot perceive latency himself. That is the type of review, and almost the only type (real world use and comments about latent signals) that we need to read. Makes me almost want to buy one myself! :)
 
Toddskins said:
I just took a look at your NI KA6 on Amazon and it sure looks great. Most of the reviewers love how it feels saying it is hefty. There are a few sour notes in the group, but the very first review seems great. He said he is routing his guitar signal TWICE via Ableton LIVE and cannot perceive latency himself. That is the type of review, and almost the only type (real world use and comments about latent signals) that we need to read. Makes me almost want to buy one myself! :)
Click to expand...

So nice we are on the "same page" Todd. THIS is what forum discussions should always be like!

I have read through a few of the Amazon reviews but not found the "Ableton" one. Do you have a link? I saw the criticisms, fair enough, nothing is perfect, not for 200quid anyway! so....
Low mic amp gain: Yes, I would like another 6-10dB but then the headroom (0dBu) would suffer. Almost all AIs are one knob wonders for mic gain and there is only so much you can do with one pot!

But NI very unusually give a figure for mic input for 0dBFS. -36dBu (this is MUCH more useful than a flat gain figure). Now that is pretty poor on the face of it but if we are recording at -20dBFS we only need -56dBu and are now in the ball park of the SM57/58s and obviously will have no bother at all with any capacitor mic I am aware of.
In practice I have recorded acoustic guitar at about a foot on a '57 with max gain and room noise is worse than system noise but both are very acceptable.

Low phantom power delivery?
Not had any trouble with my two AKG P 150s but they do only pull 2mA apiece. I shall build an XLR load plug and check this. It might be due to the fact that the KA6 is totally bus powered and some computers (one old P4 of mine) cannot deliver the full 2.5watts. I have a Focusrite 8i6 which has the same I/O complement as the KA6 but that needs a separate 12V 1amp supply...Yer pays yer money .....! (just a thought? Some USB kit comes with a "Y" lead so that it can grab 2 lots of bus power. One for NI to consider?)

Last wrinkle I have found. The AI is fussy about USB lead quality with SOME computers. Never a problem with 3mtrs and under even with the cheapest crap but I have only one, fire proof 5mtr lead....Mind you! I have not tried the 8i6 on a long, cheap lead yet either!

Do try one if you can Todd. Pity you are so far away you could have had mine for a month! I did in fact lend it to a guy who wanted to try one on Linux. Worked fine he said and so bought one.

Dave.
 
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