good 80's/90's analog consoles/mixers.

[miroslav]

I know that price is a concern, it always is...and I get the whole size/weight thing too...but, when you say a "good analog console" and then handicap that with size/weight limitations, plus the price (though your budget is a decent start point)...
...well, you will not get what you really want, and whatever you do get, you will feel that it's falling short, and eventually you will want something else.

How's that go...you can only pick two out of three:

1. Cheap
2. Good
3. Easy (in your case- size/weight)

I have no idea how deep you want to get into the whole analog/console/tape thing...or how serious it is to you...but if you are looking for deep/serious, then go for that.
TBH...upgrading sucks, mainly because what you bought originally ends up being tossed away, because it depreciates...and the whole time you are using it, you keep thinking about upgrading...and I've done it too many times to know.

So...think about your final goals, and buy with them in mind.

Europe has plenty of studios and musicians...I'm sure you can find quality stuff there instead of thinking you need to import it from the USA.

 

[Simppu]

I think i've actually had explained myself wrong in this thread. What i'm actually after is a console that gives a vintage sound of the late 80's and early 90's. Of course i would like that console be something that you can get something clever done with it, that's why i'm avoiding the Mackies right now.

Also, Midas Venice 240, Tascam m2524 and Seck 1882 all are in my price and weight range and that's why i'm going to keep the weight limit in 20-30kg. Unless someone comes up with another console that's in that weight range, i'm probably going to look for those 3 consoles.

I don't see myself upgrading the stuff if they get the job done for me. I could always wish that i had a large format Neve or API console but i'm rather realistic and come along with equipment that i can handle.

And i'm absolutely serious about going analog, as that's the way to get the sound that i'm after. Also if i wouldn't be, i wouldn't be here asking these questions and i would just go ITB.

Atleast Midas Venices can be found pretty often inside EU, one guy sold one of those here in Finland in summer.

 

[RFR]

Ramsa was the pro-audio brand of Panasonic. I don't think that Panasonic actually made consoles under the Panasonic brand.

Damn! Never knew that. I always thought it to be a Yamaha line.



Oh, on the weight.....

I don't understand. Any decent 80's, 90's console is pretty much a two man carry.

Once in position, a stand on wheels makes life easy.

Is the weight all about shipping?

Plenty of nice stuff in Europe. Shouldn't be that big of a deal getting it to you.

 

[Simppu]

The two man carry is not only a problem when buying the console overseas, but also a problem if you need to send it for service or maintenance. Otherwise for example Soundcraft Ghost wouldn't be a problem.

 

[miroslav]

I think i've actually had explained myself wrong in this thread. What i'm actually after is a console that gives a vintage sound of the late 80's and early 90's.

Also, Midas Venice 240, Tascam m2524 and Seck 1882 all are in my price and weight range and that's why i'm going to keep the weight limit in 20-30kg. Unless someone comes up with another console that's in that weight range, i'm probably going to look for those 3 consoles.

When you talk about that vintage sound...I'm assuming you're hearing it on music that was recorded during that period...and I doubt any of those consoles above would have been used for that "sound".
TBH...this weight thing, seems to be your main focus, and you are narrowing your selection based on the weight...not really the "vintage sound of the late 80's and early 90's."

AFA being serious about going analog to get that sound you are after...mmm...I would like to hear your references for that sound. I only say that because "analog" is not a singular sound you get with any/all analog gear. I would say digital is much more singular in that regard...but analog gear, tape decks...they come in a WIDE variety of flavors and quality levels...so again, consider more specifically what your goals are. Just saying you want that analog sound doesn't really translate to any specific gear...especially where weight is a critical factor.

I'm just trying to save you some missteps. Be more specific about what you are after and how far you are willing to go and how much you want to spend in order to get it.
Not saying you need to spend thousands...BUT...if the "sound" you hear and want, requires an API...then guess what, you won't get it with a Midas or a Tascam ...etc....even though it's all analog gear and analog sounds.

There must be some major audio/music stores/outlets even in your part of the world. I know Rock/Pop is big in FInland, Sweden...etc. Go talk to some people, see what's around and what others are using that you too can obtain in Finland and surrounding parts of Europe.

 

[RFR]

I dont know how big the ghost is, but my tascam is about 4 feet wide with 20 channels and a 8 buss section.
With 28 full size 100mm faders I couldn't imagine it to be any smaller. And it weighs 100 pounds.

I could, and have picked it up and moved it alone, but with 2 people it's so much easier. So in your case i can't imagine a console suitable for a 24 track deck to be much smaller.


As far as maintenance, anyone owning a vintage analog console should be capable of doing basic maintinence themselves. Any thing out of the ordinary you'd send out individual modules to have work done.

There should be no reason to send a whole console out for repair. Besides, transporting a console opens up the risk for more damage, unless, you have a custom fit flight case for it, but that isn't a guarantee against damage.

So once it's in your studio. It stays there.

 

[miroslav]

I could, and have picked it up and moved it alone, but with 2 people it's so much easier. So in your case i can't imagine a console suitable for a 24 track deck to be much smaller.

I cheated with my Trident......it took two of us to carry that fucker out and into my SUV...and it wasn't easy...
...but when I got it to my place, I was going to leave it in the SUV until I got someone to come help get it into my studio...then I decided to just remove all the channel strips, as they were going to come out anyway so I could clean them up and give them each a once over.
After that, the weight of the chassis was manageable. I still couldn't just lift it and carry it...but, I could slide it.
So lots of cardboard under it and around it all taped up...and I just slid that chassis out of the SUV, and into the house and down the steps and into my studio. Never once picked it up.
Then I bolted on the legs, and tipped the chassis upright.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I don't think the console is going to make as much of a difference as sources, mics and techniques. Just get a good quality, reliable board with the right features.

 

[RFR]

@Miro......When there's a will, there's a way.

I know, ancient advice. The kind your grandfather gives you when you're 10, and you just think he's a moron. But it couldn't be more true.

 

[Simppu]

When you talk about that vintage sound...I'm assuming you're hearing it on music that was recorded during that period...and I doubt any of those consoles above would have been used for that "sound".
TBH...this weight thing, seems to be your main focus, and you are narrowing your selection based on the weight...not really the "vintage sound of the late 80's and early 90's."

AFA being serious about going analog to get that sound you are after...mmm...I would like to hear your references for that sound. I only say that because "analog" is not a singular sound you get with any/all analog gear. I would say digital is much more singular in that regard...but analog gear, tape decks...they come in a WIDE variety of flavors and quality levels...so again, consider more specifically what your goals are. Just saying you want that analog sound doesn't really translate to any specific gear...especially where weight is a critical factor.

I'm just trying to save you some missteps. Be more specific about what you are after and how far you are willing to go and how much you want to spend in order to get it.
Not saying you need to spend thousands...BUT...if the "sound" you hear and want, requires an API...then guess what, you won't get it with a Midas or a Tascam ...etc....even though it's all analog gear and analog sounds.

There must be some major audio/music stores/outlets even in your part of the world. I know Rock/Pop is big in FInland, Sweden...etc. Go talk to some people, see what's around and what others are using that you too can obtain in Finland and surrounding parts of Europe.

On the first line, Correct and Wrong, i'm hearing it from the records of that era, especially late 80's and early 90's Glam Metal and Hard Rock, but my main focus is the weight AND the vintage sound, why choose one when you can take both?

Well, the reference being is that i prefer the soundscape of that era, it's smooth, has life in it and it is more pleasing to your ears. Meanwhile almost all the records that i've listened today have really bristle, lifeless and sterile sound and i just can't stand it.

Also most of the studios back then used analog tape machines and consoles (except Michael Wagener that recorded digitally BUT used analog consoles). I actually asked from my favourite album's singer that also took a part in producing their only album in 1994 and he said that they used analog tape machine to record it. And they of course had effects and pre's from that era too because that was the only thing that was available back then, duh.

Meanwhile a lot of people these days record straight ITB and use new effects and gear, the sound has gone downhill, in my opinion.

So considering all these, it must be the gear that they used back then that gives the sound. Of course certain mixing and recording techniques play a big part too, but i can obtain those too surely.

About comparing Mackie and Midas to API, you won't get the same sound, but you will definitely get closer to that sound with a console and other gear from that era than trying to mimick it by going ITB and using newer effects and gear.

I dont know how big the ghost is, but my tascam is about 4 feet wide with 20 channels and a 8 buss section.
With 28 full size 100mm faders I couldn't imagine it to be any smaller. And it weighs 100 pounds.

I could, and have picked it up and moved it alone, but with 2 people it's so much easier. So in your case i can't imagine a console suitable for a 24 track deck to be much smaller.


As far as maintenance, anyone owning a vintage analog console should be capable of doing basic maintinence themselves. Any thing out of the ordinary you'd send out individual modules to have work done.

There should be no reason to send a whole console out for repair. Besides, transporting a console opens up the risk for more damage, unless, you have a custom fit flight case for it, but that isn't a guarantee against damage.

So once it's in your studio. It stays there.

Oh my, why no one mentioned about this anywhere before, if that's the case, then my point about the weight limit is gone, now it's on the seller that if he can ship the console to me.

What do you think, would i get a better sound with a DDA or soundcraft Ghost than i would get with the Midas Venice?

 

[miroslav]

On the first line, Correct and Wrong, i'm hearing it from the records of that era, especially late 80's and early 90's Glam Metal and Hard Rock, but my main focus is the weight AND the vintage sound, why choose one when you can take both?

Not sure what you mean...correct and wrong...wrong about what?

It's not "any analog gear" or "any tape deck". Consider what was used, and that's your target.
Substituting with the idea that any tape deck is better than ITB/digital...mmm...I hate to say it, but you are wrong.
There's a saying....great analog is better than great digital...but shitty digital is still better than shitty analog, or better yet, cheap digital is still way better than cheap analog.

You should look for some D&R consoles, considering they are made in your general neck of the woods.
Those are some serious analog consoles....and used ones can be found for reasonable prices...depending on age/model...and, they can be found in smaller footprints, but all the features.

Something like this....but of course, it's not in your part of the world:
https://reverb.com/item/1182351-d-r-orion-recording-console-1980s

Forget the Midas DDA and Venice. The earlier DDA stuff had some nice recording consoles...but DDA is now a Midas brand.
They are great live consoles...but not too many people use them for recording, from what I've seen.

You can get good results with less expensive analog gear...but, again, it depends on the specific gear and the person using it.
Not all analog will give you what you want.

 

[Simppu]

Not sure what you mean...correct and wrong...wrong about what?

It's not "any analog gear" or "any tape deck". Consider what was used, and that's your target.
Substituting with the idea that any tape deck is better than ITB/digital...mmm...I hate to say it, but you are wrong.
There's a saying....great analog is better than great digital...but shitty digital is still better than shitty analog, or better yet, cheap digital is still way better than cheap analog.

You should look for some D&R consoles, considering they are made in your general neck of the woods.
Those are some serious analog consoles....and used ones can be found for reasonable prices...depending on age/model...and, they can be found in smaller footprints, but all the features.

Something like this....but of course, it's not in your part of the world:
https://reverb.com/item/1182351-d-r-orion-recording-console-1980s

Forget the Midas DDA and Venice. The earlier DDA stuff had some nice recording consoles...but DDA is now a Midas brand.
They are great live consoles...but not too many people use them for recording, from what I've seen.

You can get good results with less expensive analog gear...but, again, it depends on the specific gear and the person using it.
Not all analog will give you what you want.

Wrong about where my focus is, like i said, not only on weight, but also on analog.

And well if i'm not going to get a console that weights 200kg here, i'm not going to get a large 2" tape machine then either, tascam msr24 it will probably be for me.

And i never said that any tape deck is better than ITB/digital, and something being better is again subjective, i just can't keep but wonder that how you will get a more vintage sound by going ITB than using for example Soundcraft Ghost and Tascam msr24. I never intended to use some super small tape deck if that's what you're thinking.

Well i could consider the older DDA consoles maybe from that era? And probably i will forget the midas now as it is kinda new console and yes, it is meant to use live.

And that's what i'm trying to say here, and if the specific gear means that i won't get good results for example with Mackie or any other bottom of the barrel board that i've suggested here, then i won't get those boards.

And that D&R board looks actually pretty reasonable in size, too bad that the seller thinks otherwise and wouldn't send it here. I'll have more look at the D&R consoles, thanks!

 

[RFR]

Are you new to recording or are you new to analog recording?
No offense intended.

It just sounds like there is a lot of Internet searching and study going on. Snd trying to figure out the best way to go.

Are you doing home projects, bands, songwriting. Do you have uour own band or are you producing a band?

Do you have a suitable recording space or it this in your bedroom, basement or living room.

What turns you on music wise, what are you trying to sound like?

Just honestly curious as to the destination.

 

[Simppu]

No offense taken! Well tbh i've never recorded before so i'm new to recording in general. And yeah gotta get the info somewhere, right?

Well i'm gonna record all myself/solo and i'm going to record in my own room mostly.

What turns me on music wise? Well, the smooth sound of late 80's and early 90's hard rock and hair metal, songs like this one.

 

[Simppu]

Oh and this one is good also!

 

[miroslav]

...i just can't keep but wonder that how you will get a more vintage sound by going ITB than using for example Soundcraft Ghost and Tascam msr24.

Not trying to start a whole analog VS digital debate (I use both)...but TBH, yes you can. They do it every day in pro studios.
I prefer to track to tape and run things through a console...but AFA just getting a "vintage" sound..there are so many plugs these days, that if I see another "vintage" EQ or comp plug, I think I'll puke......but seriously, many of them are actually quite good.

I wasn't really sure what kind of music you were into, because there was a wide variety of styles running through the '80s and the '90s ...but now that you mentioned '80s/'90s Hair Metal...I wouldn't even think twice about going ITB for that sound.
That music was sorta borderline "digital-ish" in its sound anyway...very heavily processed, WAY too much reverb on everything, especially the drums, and the guitars all have that homogenized distortion...all of which is very easily nailed ITB.
There's really nothing "vintage analog" about that sound. Maybe you (not sure your age) view it as "vintage"...but that's just a generation thing. AFA vintage analog...you need to step back another 10-15 years.

I'm not kidding you...being that you now say you are just starting out recording...just get a DAW setup and some nice preamps/mics for the front end...and spend your money on plugs. Being new to recording, you will have less problems than trying to track to tape and getting those sounds like that...not to mention...you'll then have to dump to DAW anyway for mixing and such, unless you plan on getting a bunch of outboard gear to go with the tape deck and console.

When you first mentioned "vintage analog"...I thought you were going more for classic Rock/Blues sounds or some retro Pop...but certainly not Hair Metal.
Don't get me wrong...if that's what you like, fine...just saying that few people would equate the sound of Hair Metal with vintage analog and tape decks and consoles...etc.

Think about it...you will thank me later.

 

[Simppu]

Not trying to start a whole analog VS digital debate (I use both)...but TBH, yes you can. They do it every day in pro studios.
I prefer to track to tape and run things through a console...but AFA just getting a "vintage" sound..there are so many plugs these days, that if I see another "vintage" EQ or comp plug, I think I'll puke......but seriously, many of them are actually quite good.

I wasn't really sure what kind of music you were into, because there was a wide variety of styles running through the '80s and the '90s ...but now that you mentioned '80s/'90s Hair Metal...I wouldn't even think twice about going ITB for that sound.
That music was sorta borderline "digital-ish" in its sound anyway...very heavily processed, WAY too much reverb on everything, especially the drums, and the guitars all have that homogenized distortion...all of which is very easily nailed ITB.
There's really nothing "vintage analog" about that sound. Maybe you (not sure your age) view it as "vintage"...but that's just a generation thing. AFA vintage analog...you need to step back another 10-15 years.

I'm not kidding you...being that you now say you are just starting out recording...just get a DAW setup and some nice preamps/mics for the front end...and spend your money on plugs. Being new to recording, you will have less problems than trying to track to tape and getting those sounds like that...not to mention...you'll then have to dump to DAW anyway for mixing and such, unless you plan on getting a bunch of outboard gear to go with the tape deck and console.

When you first mentioned "vintage analog"...I thought you were going more for classic Rock/Blues sounds or some retro Pop...but certainly not Hair Metal.
Don't get me wrong...if that's what you like, fine...just saying that few people would equate the sound of Hair Metal with vintage analog and tape decks and consoles...etc.

Think about it...you will thank me later.

I think i'm going to be sceptical about getting that sound by going ITB unless someone shows me something that proofs it. I don't wanna end up like some of the bands that try to mimic the sound and fail miserably in it, like this:

 

[RFR]

No offense taken! Well tbh i've never recorded before so i'm new to recording in general. And yeah gotta get the info somewhere, right?

Well i'm gonna record all myself/solo and i'm going to record in my own room mostly.

What turns me on music wise? Well, the smooth sound of late 80's and early 90's hard rock and hair metal, songs like this one.

Just trying to gather some background info so I and others can help you out.

No shame in starting out, and no shame in scouring the net for information. It is after all, the "information highway"

Ok, thanks for your answers, here's my two cents.

I'm an analog guy, I love it. But it is something I'm used to and grew up with.

So part of that love is familiarity. It's what I know and understand.

Now I'm learning digital and have protools and a computer integrated into my analog studio.

The learning curve for comput based recotding can be steep, but coming from nowhere going to analog can be just as steep.

I will say this, analog is a commitment. A big one.

Financially it costs a lot. Like a bunch. Esoecially if you're trying to get the sound of your genre ( or any other genre)

Keep in mind a lot of the later hairband stuff was done with early digital, protools, adats ect.
Even if done all tape, it was done in world class studios with BIG consoles expensive 2inch tape machines, lots of expensive rack equipment, great rooms, lots of great mics.

Also, this stuff was done in a time when there were still big recording budgets.


All in all analog recording is a big commitment as well as knowing the tools at hand which only comes about with experience.


Now with my setup I've done some stuff that I've been real proud of, but still have not been able to get it to sound like the stuff that's come out of the 'big boy' studios.

Here comes the point.

With a computer, interface, a few mics, some software effects, some drum programs, you CAN do that stuff.

Probably for 1 or 2 thousand bucks !

Go analog if you have the love for it, if you have the room for it, and if you have the money to invest.

But keep in this mind; With a laptop, a daw, some mics, some programs and some talent, you can get the sound you want in your bedroom.

 

[RFR]

I think i'm going to be sceptical about getting that sound by going ITB unless someone shows me something that proofs it. I don't wanna end up like some of the bands that try to mimic the sound and fail miserably in it, like this:

Problem with that is it is a new release. Not that it's digital.

It's modern.
Modern production, modern mixing style, modern processing, loudness wars mastering, etc.

If they wanted they could have made it sound old school.

It's not the fault of the technology, but the intent and what they were shooting for.

Now im not trying to talk you out of analog.

By all means, come on in. You're welcome in this world and another enthusiast keeping the art alive is always good for all.

 

[Simppu]

Just trying to gather some background info so I and others can help you out.

No shame in starting out, and no shame in scouring the net for information. It is after all, the "information highway"

Ok, thanks for your answers, here's my two cents.

I'm an analog guy, I love it. But it is something I'm used to and grew up with.

So part of that love is familiarity. It's what I know and understand.

Now I'm learning digital and have protools and a computer integrated into my analog studio.

The learning curve for comput based recotding can be steep, but coming from nowhere going to analog can be just as steep.

I will say this, analog is a commitment. A big one.

Financially it costs a lot. Like a bunch. Esoecially if you're trying to get the sound of your genre ( or any other genre)

Keep in mind a lot of the later hairband stuff was done with early digital, protools, adats ect.
Even if done all tape, it was done in world class studios with BIG consoles expensive 2inch tape machines, lots of expensive rack equipment, great rooms, lots of great mics.

Also, this stuff was done in a time when there were still big recording budgets.


All in all analog recording is a big commitment as well as knowing the tools at hand which only comes about with experience.


Now with my setup I've done some stuff that I've been real proud of, but still have not been able to get it to sound like the stuff that's come out of the 'big boy' studios.

Here comes the point.

With a computer, interface, a few mics, some software effects, some drum programs, you CAN do that stuff.

Probably for 1 or 2 thousand bucks !

Go analog if you have the love for it, if you have the room for it, and if you have the money to invest.

But keep in this mind; With a laptop, a daw, some mics, some programs and some talent, you can get the sound you want in your bedroom.

Since you seem to be so sure that you can achieve the sound that i'm after by going ITB, why don't you show me some proof for your claims?

Problem with that is it is a new release. Not that it's digital.

It's modern.
Modern production, modern mixing style, modern processing, loudness wars mastering, etc.

If they wanted they could have made it sound old school.

It's not the fault of the technology, but the intent and what they were shooting for.

Still i've yet to see someone get a sound that i'm after by going ITB, feel free to prove me wrong tho. :S