Gibson/Epiphone lies

[tdukex]

Regardless of perceived vs. actual quality or the presence or lack of logic, or what anybody in this thread would like to believe, the fact is for most people who buy certain products (sports cars, guitars e.g.) it DOES matter where they are made. That's why the markets are what they are.

And the original point of this thread is that the buyer was misled--not the quality of the guitar.

 

[muttley600]

The Acoustic Control Corp. Black Widow guitar made in Japan is very sought after these days, and commands some high prices.

There are also others and the quality of some of the "sought after" US made guitars is far below that of many of the quality instruments coming out of Japan and South East Asia. Price or value has little to do with quality when it comes guitar collectors or many of the musicians that will have only a "US Made vintage" of a certain brand. Most of the workmanship of the Japanese shops and their technical ability is on a par with and often better than the US shops. The same is true of their staff. The US have been playing catch up for quite a while and they know it. They are trading on the "Made in USA" thing and will sell a guitar for whatever the buyer perceives it to be worth. That does not make import guitars of equal components inferior, far from it.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Yeah, but what does that have to do with anything?

And I haven't had any for over 20 years, so I don't think it's because I'm high now.


My point is your statement that some Jap guitars are more sought after than us guitars in totally insane. Name one?

He specifically said gits made in the 80's. Your examples don't come from that era and thus, have nothing to do with what he said.
Many people consider American gits from that era to be crap .... the Norlin Gibsons and the absolute crap that Fender was turning out for a while.
Personally, I've played for 44 years and at least 5 or 6 nights a week for the last 40 years. I've also had 50's era Gibsons and Fenders (if I had them now I could retire easily ) and though they are fine instruments, I find that after years and years of having them, I just don't care anymore. For me, (got that? It's just my opinion for what works for ME) I don't care at all about anything other than if the git plays good and sounds decent. Japan .. America ................ Korea ..... I've played great and I've played crap from all of them.

 

[Fade]

you've smoked too much dope over the years.Jap guitars more sought after than American guitars? Lets see my 59 les paul 300 grand, my 68 les paul 12grand, my 60 es 330 blonde 2 pickup p90 guitar 14grand..your Jap les paul copy, 300 bucks...yeah, I guess your right. All the biggest guitar dealers selling pretty much only American guitars and all the Japs at the vintage show buying up all the American guitars left and right..yeah I guess your right.

You have a guitar worth $300k sitting in your collection?!? I thinks you have smoked a little too much dope in your day too. Don't get me wrong, I like nice, rare things, but you can't tell me that it plays or sounds significantly better than some of your other guitars and it is basically a new house or Ferrari or world tour or whatever just sitting there.

 

[tom18222]

How many believe USA Gibson guitars are totally and carefully handcrafted by a person?

Poke through a few of these links...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=cnc++guitar+manufacturing+gibson&btnG=Search

i know i would rather have a cnc machine cut my guitar than some guy with a band saw.

 

[CoolCat]

yes, the marketing BS continues....

I saw a sticker SETUP IN THE US.. with a US flag....what a sham....

it's so stupid, nobody buys it not even the kids....why don't they shave another 2cents off the guitar and shuve the sticker up thier ass.

 

[jmorris]

I love both my epi's and my samick..dont know where they are made, or where they are from..and no offense to the i-have-amazing-guitars-because-they-are-worth-a-ton-of-cash guy, but i dont need something that rediculous as a 300 thousand dollar guitar..period. Your so off in the deep end on biased, its rediculous. Im not gonna say im not a bit biased in saying i like overseas stuff..i mean, do i wish i had an american made gibson? course...however, the stuff made overseas...from what ive owned..is quite good. Its not like its literally falling apart or in any way sounding like crap..I compared my 300 dollar epiphone to a gibson sg used that was..roughly 1000 bucks...i liked my epi more.

The value of my old guitars was not( if you would read it again) to say "look what I own" it was to demonstrate that USA guitars are worth MUCH more than Jap ones if only given the prices they fetch. The Jap guitars are not and I dont believe will ever be more desirable than US ones. Just look at the prices of Gibsons/Fenders/Martins/Gretch theses days. They are WAY higher than Jap/china/Korea. This is also getting way off point form origional post. If a guitar says "made in the usa' it should be. Made in Japan with it then shipped over to USA to apply the finish does not in any way right true to the made in usa lable.

 

[jmorris]

He specifically said gits made in the 80's. Your examples don't come from that era and thus, have nothing to do with what he said.
Many people consider American gits from that era to be crap .... the Norlin Gibsons and the absolute crap that Fender was turning out for a while.
Personally, I've played for 44 years and at least 5 or 6 nights a week for the last 40 years. I've also had 50's era Gibsons and Fenders (if I had them now I could retire easily ) and though they are fine instruments, I find that after years and years of having them, I just don't care anymore. For me, (got that? It's just my opinion for what works for ME) I don't care at all about anything other than if the git plays good and sounds decent. Japan .. America ................ Korea ..... I've played great and I've played crap from all of them.

In reality you are way off base with guitars in the 80's. The worst period for both Gibson and Fender were the 70's. Gibson with 3 piece maple necks on their LP's,and Fenders 70's strats and teles were their worst period. With the 80's Gibson started to come back starting with the Les Paul Heritage, the DOT es335 etc. Fender with the 'The Strat"

 

[jmorris]

You have a guitar worth $300k sitting in your collection?!? I thinks you have smoked a little too much dope in your day too. Don't get me wrong, I like nice, rare things, but you can't tell me that it plays or sounds significantly better than some of your other guitars and it is basically a new house or Ferrari or world tour or whatever just sitting there.

Yes I do. If you did a little checking instead of running your mouth about things you know nothing about you will find a 58-60 Les Paul sunburst goes for $150,000 to $350.000 depending on condition and top. I paid $1900 for mine in '82. Now, are they worth that? NO way in hell. But if we are talking about a guitar being desirable I believe a guitar that will sell for that kind of cash makes it desirable. We dont pay tons os $$ for stuff we dont like right? Oh, and as far as guitars of this value "just sitting there"? Its called investments

 

[CoolCat]

I agree with JM in the confusion or frkn insult...?

if it says USA it can be USA made....if its Japan thats cool too, but frkn be honest.

thats the whole thing thats really a sham, dishonest..."lie".

but to each their own. When I see a USA flag and it states "POLISHED IN THE USA"....

I know their not proud of this product really, it makes me NOT want the product, or it makes no difference, just another sticker to throw away.

My point is why do they waste their time and cost of the fake US sticker?

Seems no buys into anyway, and at worst case looks at it as a "lie", like EPIHPONE LIE....

It's something new, some new scam angle to the whole collectors and cost reduced overseas built stuff...

an American Flag sticker geez..is that all thats left of the infamous Gibson and Fender iconic....

and why don't they add MALAYSIA made pickguard and CHINA made VOLUME POTS!! to the "American Made Stratocasters"???

 

[Fade]

Yes I do. If you did a little checking instead of running your mouth about things you know nothing about you will find a 58-60 Les Paul sunburst goes for $150,000 to $350.000 depending on condition and top

Easy tiger! I never said anything about doubting that some sucker would pay that much for it. I just can't believe that (especially considering how little you initially paid for it) that would would hang on to it and not have it at the first auction you could.

 

[jmorris]

Easy tiger! I never said anything about doubting that some sucker would pay that much for it. I just can't believe that (especially considering how little you initially paid for it) that would would hang on to it and not have it at the first auction you could.

Fade, and everyone else. I am not trying to be a jerk, and Im sorry if Im comming off that way and I apologise for it. Im in a very pissy mood. It really gets under my skin when things are misrepresented as in this Epiphone case. Further more, when the idiots at UPS deliver a package with the box bashed and opened at one end it gets me pissed even more. Third, when I call UPS for the second time to talk about their damage to my guitar and they dont even have a damage claim or case opened up for it....somebody screwed up that makes my blood boil. So..... if I have been a dick I am sorry! My only points were..
1) if it says made in the usa then it should be...not last bit before we ship it out but pretty much built overseas.;
2) USA for me are better..period. Not all of course but most. Jap or whatever have a poor feel,poor sound, cheap parts. Not all, but for me most
3) You have to be an idiot to pay 10 grand or 300 grand for a guitar. Am I glad stuff I bought years ago are worth that..yes. Are they worth it? No way.
4) USA guitars are more desirable, just ask a collector or Gerorge Gruhn.
5) All manufacturers have gone through good and bad periods. I think USA makers have had much less of these.
6) If you have ever been to a vintage guitar show, I mean the really big ones, you will seen a lot of Japs there buying up USA made guitars. Gibson, Fender and Martins. I myself have displayed and sold vintage guitars at these shows where the Japs will walk up to you at your booth, not speaking a word of english, hold up fingers trying to determine how much money you want for a guitar, lay out the cash and walk away with the guitar. The entire process takes less than 2 minutes. No one does that for anything other than USA guitars. They almost dont care about the price, just need to own as much as they can. To me, that id a desirable item.

 

[CoolCat]

I saw a Martin guitar box in a incoming shipment at Guitar Center...it said
"America's Guitar!"...then it said Made In China....

yes, it's wierd how it pisses me off too....you should have beers with us because we discuss this shit, like grumpy old farts....

blahblah...everything sucks naaahhhuuummmpfff....fhk them...."

i'm laughing right now because it's pathetic really, the whole thing...them and their fake US flag stickers and us wasting time complaining about it...

damn...

Maybe thats all thats left of the Gibson/Fender legendary pieces of the past....all we have left is a US Flag Sticker....and the stickers probably made in Malaysia.

 

[donkeystyle]

Ive played guitars for 36 years and own/owned everything from 59 les paul sunburst to flying v..yes the real deals. Jap/Korean stuff is shit from a players view. As noted they dont bring anywheres as high a price as USA. Last point ,if it fyuckin says made in the usa then it fuckin should be made in the usa! Not, made in Korea by horribly cheap labor by people that dont really care about workmanship and would just as soon see all Americans die then rape our country.

japanese fender and gibson(the orville and orville by gibson stuff) is highly sought after and their prices on the used market reflect that. Generally collectors feel that they are better guitars than their american counterparts.

The high end Gretsch line is made in japan and is fantastic and while I haven't personally played the korean one's, I have heard that they are also very well made.

Your concern about Gibson's claim of made in USA when it's not is valid because it's an outright lie.

Your bigoted claims are not valid and you should be ashamed.

 

[jmorris]

japanese fender and gibson(the orville and orville by gibson stuff) is highly sought after and their prices on the used market reflect that. Generally collectors feel that they are better guitars than their american counterparts.

The high end Gretsch line is made in japan and is fantastic and while I haven't personally played the korean one's,I have heard that they are also very well made. Your concern about Gibson's claim of made in USA when it's not is valid because it's an outright lieYour bigoted claims are not valid and you should be ashamed.

That statement does not make any sense at all.You need to reprint that.
Yeah and I've ""heard how you got that name"Let's see? Epiphone John Lennon says on it on back of headstock"made in usa", Gibson told me via phone it is made in Japan but the finish is applied here in usa. Hum? yeah I guess that makes it made in the usa.
PS I bet your not much of a player...
but you know, some people drive Kia's and think their great..

 

[donkeystyle]

That statement does not make any sense at all.You need to reprint that.
Yeah and I've ""heard how you got that name"Let's see? Epiphone John Lennon says on it on back of headstock"made in usa", Gibson told me via phone it is made in Japan but the finish is applied here in usa. Hum? yeah I guess that makes it made in the usa.
PS I bet your not much of a player...
but you know, some people drive Kia's and think their great..

You need to re-read it.

I was agreeing with you.

grow up.

 

[donkeystyle]

Fade, and everyone else. I am not trying to be a jerk, and Im sorry if Im comming off that way and I apologise for it. Im in a very pissy mood.

That is no excuse for bigotry or racism.

 

[the_crowing]

That is no excuse for bigotry or racism.

Thank you for not making me the only person to have been offended by the racist content in his posts.

[...]made in Korea by horribly cheap labor by people that dont really care about workmanship and would just as soon see all Americans die then rape our country.

[...]all the Japs at the vintage show buying up all the American guitars left and right...

I myself have displayed and sold vintage guitars at these shows where the Japs will walk up to you at your booth, not speaking a word of english, hold up fingers trying to determine how much money you want for a guitar,[...]

How come you other guys didn't react to this?

 

[jmorris]

That is no excuse for bigotry or racism.

No one else replied about a racist remark by me because there was not one made by me. But feel free to jump on that bandwagon if you have no other argument to make. That is what Jessi Jackson does. Everything is about race. White against black or Black against white.
Donkystyle, yes you need to reprint your statement....still.
Because I dont care for an instrument built in a country other than USA does not make me dislike the people of that country......wake up! What I did was state an "opinion".This " opinion" was that the guitars made there we note as good as ones built here. Now, if you are narrow minded and follow the mentality of people like J. Jackson, Al Sharpton and all those assholes you will think as they. If I dont like hiphop or rap that does NOT freakin mean I dont like black /african american people. You have no mind of your own if you buy right into that crap that is spew'd out buy people that make money off hatred and racism...Like Jackson and Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan. They have a business to perpetuate hate and racism. Your a bonehead and dont think for yourself!

 

[donkeystyle]

Your concern about Gibson's claim of made in USA when it's not is valid because it's an outright lie.

Your bigoted claims are not valid and you should be ashamed.

for the less than sharp----

I think that because Gibson's claim that that guitar is made in the USA is an outright lie you have a valid concern.

I think that your bigoted, race motivated claims about the "japs" and those evil, lazy Koreans that want to rape our country are not valid and you should be ashamed of yourself.


AND incase this isn't clear. Yes jmorris, this is directed towards you