Getting Mesa sounds out of a JCM800?

[HangDawg]

,,,,er,,,,,,,and?
whats so special about that guitar sound?
am i missing something folks
its prett bog standard generic gruntrock fodder to my ears



please,,,enlighten me ?

i cant really equate the boasting over this SUPER guitar sound
(which i dont hear)
to the shite you have dished out

an extremely tuneless/songless band too i reckon,
since we are in a loving sharing mood

what happened to people helping each other out on here?
the original poster asked for some help,
and it turned into a Pod slating contest

oh,,and by the way,,you started it ,by not bein nice

not nice is it?

Ya know what asshole, put up or shut the fuck up. I didn't those tracks were all that special. I did however challenge the folks who keep talking up the PODs to give us a sample that doesn't sound like shit. Most don't come through. And if they do, it's usually something they've found online and have no idea where it came from. So I reiterate, put up or shut the fuck up cause you are no better than the rest.

And if you read my first response to getting a marshal to sound like a rectifier I said it ain't going to happen unless you use a POD. But then you have the suck factor thrown in. Nothing more than truth with my OPINION of PODs which I'm entitled to have according to you.

Have a nice fucking day!

 

[HangDawg]

Ahhhh I love it. Pussy boy Outlaws gives me unsigned neg rep and puts me on ignore. All because I don't like PODs.

 

[Monsterpop]

Ya know what asshole, put up or shut the fuck up. I didn't those tracks were all that special. I did however challenge the folks who keep talking up the PODs to give us a sample that doesn't sound like shit. Most don't come through. And if they do, it's usually something they've found online and have no idea where it came from. So I reiterate, put up or shut the fuck up cause you are no better than the rest.

And if you read my first response to getting a marshal to sound like a rectifier I said it ain't going to happen unless you use a POD. But then you have the suck factor thrown in. Nothing more than truth with my OPINION of PODs which I'm entitled to have according to you.

Have a nice fucking day!

you just further proved my point
and what a nice fella ye are also

cheerio have an exceedingly nice day

 

[HangDawg]

you just further proved my point
and what a nice fella ye are also

cheerio have an exceedingly nice day

Just what I thought. Don't have anything do you? I think we've really proved my point. You come flying in here singing the praises of the POD and don't have anything to back it up. I listened to some of your monsterpoop music by the way. Not impressed. Besides the weak ass guitar you couldn't even begin to write or play like those 3 guys.

 

[Monsterpop]

Ahhhh I love it. Pussy boy Outlaws gives me unsigned neg rep and puts me on ignore. All because I don't like PODs.

er,,no
i think its probably got more to do with the fact that you cant actually discuss opinions without resorting to personal abuse,,dont you?
the guys just decided he doesnt want to read your rambling shite any more

good for you Outlaws

 

[Monsterpop]

Just what I thought. Don't have anything do you? I think we've really proved my point. You come flying in here singing the praises of the POD and don't have anything to back it up. I listened to some of your monsterpoop music by the way. Not impressed. Besides the weak ass guitar you couldn't even begin to write or play like those 3 guys.

Monsterpoop,,,,,,hahahahahahaha,,,,comedy GOLD sir !

what was the actual chances that if you LOVED any of my music, that you would come on here and admit it?
exactly,,,none

you could be sitting there with a hardon right now for all i know ! !

well done,,well done indeed ! perhaps a career in stand up comedy beckons,or maybe prize fighting,where you can try to actually bully people in REAL life,instead of from the safety of your desk there?
nah,,of course not. cos your not funny,
or the big tough guy yer tryin to appear
haha,,you really are a sad lonely angry wee man sir arent you?

i couldnt even BEGIN top tell you how much i couldnt care less what a neanderthall such as yourself thinks of my music,sounds,songs or playing?

i am in fact DELIGHTED that the likes of you doesnt like it!

GO ME,,as they say in the USA i believe.

you also have no idea how well i play,or indeed if i am in fact in one of those dreadful bands also. you like to "presume"a helluva lot,
and are in actual fact makin an arse of yourself with every further word you decide to bang out with your clenched fist typing technique.

"weak ass" guitar seems to be your catchphrase,
and shows a bit of a fascination for ass im afraid to say.
worryingly so in fact. do you need to tell us anything,,,?

not surprisingly,,,
MASSIVE sounding/rectified style guitars dont suit every kind of song/music. or didnt you realise that?

i may hit the ignore button soon too actually,
although your rants are currently amusing me enough to keep you hangin on,and allow you the honour of ranting at me some more.

your anger amuses me!

now, do yo need a hug mate?
hehe,,,

ps,,,WELL done for not actually swearing in that last slobbering rant.
maybe theres some hope for you yet

 

[NRS]

Part of the problem with PODS and other amp modellers sounding like shit live has to do with people not knowing how to hook them up optimally with thier amps. Most people assume you can take the same tweaked sound that sounded great through headphones and just run it like any stomp box in front of your amp or through the effects loop to achieve the same results but you really cant.

The trick is avoiding redundancy in your signal path and not setting anything up virtually that you cant achieve good results with in reality. As an example, you would never mic an amp then power that miced signal with another guitar amp nor would you run the line out of a real Mesa or Fender Twin into the preamp of a Marshall and expect the Marshall to suddenly assume the first amps identity. These are the two biggest mistakes that people make when incorperating a modeller into thier live guitar rig.

First, shut that cab sim OFF in your modeller and let your amps speakers do thier work! Secondly, if you are relying on the amp sims in your modeller, the best way to hook it to your amp is into the effects RETURN only which will bypass your amps preamp and allow your modeller to control everything and sound exactly how its supposed to. Thats pretty much the concept of those atomic amps.

The only situation where you would want to run a modeller like a stomp box is if you are using its stomp effects only such as compression, EQ, or distortion or run it through the effects loop if your just accessing its delay, modulation and reverb type effects. I do live sound reinforcement and have seen plenty of experienced players get GREAT reasults with thier modeller/amp combo's when set up properly. I've gotten great results myself so know its possible and think modellers are often unfairly scrutinized as Hokus Pokus unprofessional plastic tinker toys by those who dont know how to make the most out of them.

 

[HangDawg]

not surprisingly,,,
MASSIVE sounding/rectified style guitars dont suit every kind of song/music. or didnt you realise that?

Ignoring the rest of your hilarious post, I must point out that massive sounding rectified guitars are exactly what the OP was talking about. Let me guess, you didn't read the rest of the thread and came flying in here talking about shit you have no idea how to accomplish?


If I'm wrong, put up the goods already. I'm ready to hear it.

 

[HangDawg]

Part of the problem with PODS and other amp modellers sounding like shit live has to do with people not knowing how to hook them up optimally with thier amps. Most people assume you can take the same tweaked sound that sounded great through headphones and just run it like any stomp box in front of your amp or through the effects loop to achieve the same results but you really cant.

The trick is avoiding redundancy in your signal path and not setting anything up virtually that you cant achieve good results with in reality. As an example, you would nevr mic an amp then power that miced signal with another guitar amp nor would you run the line out of a real Mesa or Fender twin into the preamp of a Marshall and expect it to suddenly assume the first amps identity. These are the two biggest mistakes that peaple make.

First, shut that cab sim OFF in your modeller and let your amps speakers do thier work! Secondly, if you are using the amp sims in your modeller, the best way to hook it to your amp is into the effects RETURN only. This will bypass your amps preamp and allow your modeller to control everything and sound exactly how its supposed to. Thats pretty much the concept of those atomic amps

The only situation where you would want to run a modeller like a stomp box is if you are using its stomp effects only such as compression, EQ, or distortion or run it through the effects loop if your just accessing its delay, modulation and reverb type effects. I do live sound reinforcement and have seen plenty of experienced players get GREAT reasults with thier modeller/amp combo's when set up properly. I've gotten great results myself and think modellers are often unfairly scrutinized as Hokus Pokus unprofessional plastic tinker toys by those who dont know how to make the most out of them.

You may well be right. But there's very little if any material recorded with a POD on this bbs that doesn't sound like shit. Sorry, I'm just stating facts. People keep saying how great they are but no one has any samples of work they did. Ford Van posted something once and it was acceptable. Still not great by any means and that guy knows his shit.

As far as being an ass. I just having fun pissing people off for a change.

 

[NRS]

You may well be right. But there's very little if any material recorded with a POD on this bbs that doesn't sound like shit. Sorry, I'm just stating facts. People keep saying how great they are but no one has any samples of work they did. Ford Van posted something once and it was acceptable. Still not great by any means and that guy knows his shit.

As far as being an ass. I just having fun pissing people off for a change.

And I'll bet 90% of those people are recording direct with them and the other 10% just arent configured properly. I'd probably agree that when run either direct or into a PA, your better results are typically going to range from only acceptable to good at best but will begin to improve greatly when properly configured with a real miced amp.

To me, modellers are much more respectable when viewed conservatively as just a supplimental tool in ones overall sound rather than a be all to end all solution to everything. I think its thier own exagerated marketing hype to accurately mimic this amp or that one that generates such black and white opinions about them because the reality is they really only get you in the ballpark of the amp your trying to emulate and this becomes a real let down to many people. But if perfect emulation is not your priority, then "ballpark" can still certianly produce some good usable sounds which sometimes even introduce a desirable uniqueness of its own. Who wants to sound exactly like everyone else anyway?

 

[amra]

Study this post. 90% of the people using amp modelers would instantly get a better sound.

Part of the problem with PODS and other amp modellers sounding like shit live has to do with people not knowing how to hook them up optimally with thier amps. Most people assume you can take the same tweaked sound that sounded great through headphones and just run it like any stomp box in front of your amp or through the effects loop to achieve the same results but you really cant.

The trick is avoiding redundancy in your signal path and not setting anything up virtually that you cant achieve good results with in reality. As an example, you would never mic an amp then power that miced signal with another guitar amp nor would you run the line out of a real Mesa or Fender Twin into the preamp of a Marshall and expect the Marshall to suddenly assume the first amps identity. These are the two biggest mistakes that people make when incorperating a modeller into thier live guitar rig.

First, shut that cab sim OFF in your modeller and let your amps speakers do thier work! Secondly, if you are relying on the amp sims in your modeller, the best way to hook it to your amp is into the effects RETURN only which will bypass your amps preamp and allow your modeller to control everything and sound exactly how its supposed to. Thats pretty much the concept of those atomic amps.

The only situation where you would want to run a modeller like a stomp box is if you are using its stomp effects only such as compression, EQ, or distortion or run it through the effects loop if your just accessing its delay, modulation and reverb type effects. I do live sound reinforcement and have seen plenty of experienced players get GREAT reasults with thier modeller/amp combo's when set up properly. I've gotten great results myself so know its possible and think modellers are often unfairly scrutinized as Hokus Pokus unprofessional plastic tinker toys by those who dont know how to make the most out of them.

 

[HangDawg]

Unsigned rep pussies. None of you fuckers got any balls. People can bash my tracking/mixing but can't post anything better.


I like being the prick. This place has been getting way too boring lately. You're still all a bunch of pussies. You know who you are.

 

[NRS]

Back to the thread at hand, I think a multiband EQ alone would be this guys easiest first step to Mesa-fying his Marshall as it seems Mesas are often characterized by thier thick bottom and pronounced mid range scoop.

Overdriven Mesas tend to sound a bit more compressed than Marshalls to me so a tad of compression may be helpfull too but I'm sure the gain itself is at least neck and neck. Harder to achieve might be cleaning the Marshall up enough to compete with a Mesa's clean channel if he's after its cleans tones too.

 

[HangDawg]

Back to the thread at hand, I think a multiband EQ alone would be this guys easiest first step to Mesa-fying his Marshall as it seems Mesas are often characterized by thier thick bottom and pronounced mid range scoop.

Overdriven Mesas tend to sound a bit more compressed than Marshalls to me so a tad of compression may be helpfull too but I'm sure the gain itself is at least neck and neck. Harder to achieve might be cleaning the Marshall up enough to compete with a Mesa's clean channel if he's after its cleans tones too.

Actually I'd be interested to hear just how close one could get. I'd agree on the thick bottom part. I don't agree with the mid scoop part. Certainly you can do that but no more so than any other amp.

 

[HangDawg]

And I'll bet 90% of those people are recording direct with them and the other 10% just arent configured properly. I'd probably agree that when run either direct or into a PA, your better results are typically going to range from only acceptable to good at best but will begin to improve greatly when properly configured with a real miced amp.

To me, modellers are much more respectable when viewed conservatively as just a supplimental tool in ones overall sound rather than a be all to end all solution to everything. I think its thier own exagerated marketing hype to accurately mimic this amp or that one that generates such black and white opinions about them because the reality is they really only get you in the ballpark of the amp your trying to emulate and this becomes a real let down to many people. But if perfect emulation is not your priority, then "ballpark" can still certianly produce some good usable sounds which sometimes even introduce a desirable uniqueness of its own. Who wants to sound exactly like everyone else anyway?

I always like the comments that go, "Well with a POD I have 30 amps" Uhhh no, sorry you have no amps.

I'll tell you the biggest problem with damn PODs. They do not react like a tube amp does. Or even a solid state amp. The attack is not the same. And neither is the sustain. Hold a chord on a POD and watch it turn to shit after about 5 seconds. All that lovely compression coming from tubes. Well, it's nothing but a bad algorithm on a POD.

 

[scorpio01169]

Study this post. 90% of the people using amp modelers would instantly get a better sound.

Mike....you are my friend...and you know how i feel so it wont be a surprise when i say that is sooooooo not true

 

[NRS]

I always like the comments that go, "Well with a POD I have 30 amps" Uhhh no, sorry you have no amps.

I'll tell you the biggest problem with damn PODs. They do not react like a tube amp does. Or even a solid state amp. The attack is not the same. And neither is the sustain. Hold a chord on a POD and watch it turn to shit after about 5 seconds. All that lovely compression coming from tubes. Well, it's nothing but a bad algorithm on a POD.

Actually the algorithm is pretty decent right up untill the mic/cab/power amp stage part which no modeller has really nailed down completely. I have a VOX Tonelab that does a much better job at this but its mainly because it has a real power tube in its output stage and acts more as a line level signal amp than a modeller. I still prefer running it through a miced amp though.

As for the POD, its really difficult to determine the quality of its stomp and preamp stages once they get deminished by that final miced cab/power amp stage your talking about but you may find they really arent too bad once the weak link gets bypassed.

 

[HangDawg]

Actually the algorithm is pretty decent right up untill the mic/cab/power amp stage part which no modeller has really nailed down completely. I have a VOX Tonelab that does a much better job at this but its mainly because it has a real power tube in its output stage and acts more as a line level signal amp than a modeller. I still prefer running it through a miced amp though.

As for the POD, its really difficult to determine the quality of its stomp and preamp stages once they get deminished by that final miced cab/power amp stage your talking about but you may find they really arent too bad once the weak link gets bypassed.

That's a big problem then. Being an "Amp Modeler" and all. You'd think that they would get that part right. So if you consider them as a multi stomp box modeler, it's ok for that.

 

[antichef]

I've been using a vox tonelab se through the clean (low sensitivity) channel of a JCM800 (50 watt 2204) half stack, and it sounds pretty good. Still learning the possibilities, but so far it seems best to bypass the speaker cabinet modeling stage in this config. I'm not familiar with the pod, but maybe something similar is worth trying (but do you even have a pod? I'm not sure, reading through all the posts).

Not sure which JCM800 model you're talking about, but maybe it's worth expanding horizons a little and just working with that (that is, don't try to make it sound like a mesa)? Assuming you've got something like the 2204, you can build some sound protection around it, use a high SPL mic, and turn up the volume to 6 or 7, where you're overdriving the power tube stage. Keep the presence at 12 o'clock, dime the bass, and play with the mid and treble until it works -- that's not a bad metal sound

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Is there a reason you care so much about PODs, guys? It's like arguing whether or not Red is good. Jesus christ, it's a color ok? Some people think it's better than Blue. Other people think Blue sucks. Who gives a flying shit?