Getting Bass Guitar and Kick to sit in a mix...

[AumStudioBrian]

I know I've been asking a lot of EQ related questions lately! But here's another...

I've heard of people cutting certian EQ frequencies on the bass guitar, and boosting that frequency on the kick, and vice versa, to get them to sit in the mix together nicley. Do any of you use any method like this? I'm curious to which frequencies would work. I've experimented a bit, but no luck.

 

[Middleman]

Well, because you're from Bakersfield, I feel obligated. Yes, here is what I generally do.

On the kick, cut all below 47HZ with a sharp curve, hopefully you have a parametric EQ with about 5 nodes. If you have an eliptic setting, use this for the curve.

On the kick put a negative notch/dip starting at 75Hz and going up to 1000Hz at -6db midpoint. Then put a slight bump 2-3db at 1000 and again at 2000 with a fairly narrow Q. Cut everything above 2000 about -6db. All this is approximate depending on how you tracked your kick. These highpoints are so you can hear the tick of the kick so on small speakers there is an apparent effect of the kick being audible.

On the bass high pass at 75 with a steep curve. Wide cut from 150 to 750 around -6db and bump a narrow Q band at 1000-1200 +3 to +6db, cut all above this.

Run them through a common sub buss, slap a compressor on the that buss, smash to taste. Mix this up under the main tracks or just use this sub if you like the sound.

Back on the main tracks put the bass at zero, kick about 3db lower and mix around that.

This is very subjective based on how well you tracked everything. If your at -12 to -6 on your tracked volumes, you should be OK. This is a starting point for you. For some growl on the bass, put it through a sim amp, or real amp for that matter and run a distortion pedal, or take the bass channel out to a POD device for some extra pizzaz. All depends on what type of music you are recording.

 

[ocnor]

Without hearing the tracks it would be futile to give EQ advise. If you could post clips of the tracks it would be much easier than guessing.

 

[Ronan]

Well, because you're from Bakersfield, I feel obligated.

If you are from Bakersfield you should come down to one of my recording boot camps in LA. We work tons of the questions you have been asking.

I just finished my second record for a cool band in Bakersfield called Printed in Slovenia. They were a lot of fun.

 

[AumStudioBrian]

Without hearing the tracks it would be futile to give EQ advise. If you could post clips of the tracks it would be much easier than guessing.

Well, I have 1 song that my group recorded live in the studio recently, using a minimum mic setup. Mixed it down in about 20 minutes. Its not a clip, but its all I've got online. It sounds pretty good on my computer speakers, but when I put it to a subwoofer, watch out!

Drums = 2 Rode NT5's, Sennheiser e602
Guitar = 2 SM57's
Bass = Direct
*Behringer Eurodesk-->Pro Tools-->Waves Plugins.

 

[ocnor]

Try cutting between 63HZ-100HZ on the kick drum to get rid of the boom. Give the Bass guitar a little more presence between 600HZ-800HZ. Then you will be able to adjust the levels and get a better mix.

 

[Middleman]

There are a lot of sub sonics below 40HZ, you might want to roll those off, they are eating some of your headroom in the mix. Even up to 50 would not be bad.

 

[BruceAMiller]

I disagree

Sorry, but I must disagree. Everyone is telling you to take more bottom from the kick to make room for the bass. If you keep doing that, you will end up with a kick that only works for hardcore.

You need to make the bottom of the kick nice by either recording it properly in the first place (provided the drum sounds good in the first place)...or by ADDING low EQ. I usually add 20-50 hz and even had a set of API EQ's customized down to 20hz.

Then to make room for the Bass, carve out the tubby lower midrange with a very tight EQ. Of course, you will need to push and carve the Bass as well.

My point is that your kick should push in the lower midrange AND the very bottom under the Bass. Do not just cut Kick bottom.

Oh, by the way, be sure to check the phase of your Kick to your Bass. Even if they are all samples, if they are pushing the bottom in the same direction it will be both warmer and tighter.

Hope this helps.

-Bruce Miller
Gold/Plat/Grammy Mixer

(more Tips and Starving Artist Offer at http://BruceAMiller.us)

 

[mixandmaster]

I agree with what Bruce said, but would add this...you may be able to get your desired results by manipulating compression on the kick drum, as well. You can definitely leave plenty of deep, deep low end, but you may want to shorten the duration of the "BOOOM" and can accomplish this by careful use of attack/release on a compressor. It may not be an EQ problem after all. (I'm at a computer where I can't hear your audio sample) Good luck.

 

[Middleman]

Bruce, I think this depends on the music you are mixing. Down to 20 Hz? Maybe if your doing Hip Hop or Rap. Bruce, I ran some of the tunes on your site through an analyzer, here were the results:

Juha Twilight rolled off at 43 (with -36 out to 20)
Baba Paradise rolled off at at 41 (with -36 out to 20)
HSSadness rolled off at 40 (with -36 out to 20)
DJDooWop rolled off sharply at 43

That's pretty much what I was saying about low end roll off. This tune is about as close to hardcore at least more so than other genre.

Are you referring to tracking EQ vs Mixing EQ? Your mentioning APIs down to 20 leads me to this conclusion and I would concur.

Also, look at most commerical CDs, there is little happening below say 45 in pop/rock that you see on most records except those in genre's mentioned above. Some do have the -36 stuff, some don't.

 

[Bulls Hit]

I listened to your old shoe mp3.

Seems to me the bass is crowding out the kick. I have the same issues. I dial up the kick sound I'm happy with, then I record the bass and it just disappears.

What works for me is to solo the kick and use a sprectrum analyser like Voxvengo (coz it's free), and see where the kick is peaking. On my kick this is usually around 90-100Hz. Then I just carve a nice notch in the same area, not too narrow, out of the bass to make room. Suddenly the kick reappears and I can't even tell some of the bass has been nicked

 

[masteringhouse]

Sorry, but I must disagree. Everyone is telling you to take more bottom from the kick to make room for the bass. If you keep doing that, you will end up with a kick that only works for hardcore.

You need to make the bottom of the kick nice by either recording it properly in the first place (provided the drum sounds good in the first place)...or by ADDING low EQ. I usually add 20-50 hz and even had a set of API EQ's customized down to 20hz.

I agree that 40 Hz is probably a bit too agressive, especially for hip-hop and rap. OTOH I think that 20 Hz is too much in the other direction unless you are using a very sharp filter. Increasing 20 Hz is also going to boost freqs below it which will be removed most likely during mastering, so why bother boosting them? Low sub-freqs in the kick have a tendancy of robbing the dynamic range of the overall mix since these transients and snare tranients are most likely going to be the hottest things in a mix.

My advice would be to bring up the kick and bass only, and use complimentary EQ (a boost in one means a reduction in the other). It's usually the build-up of "like" frequencies that cause things to pop-out and muddy the situation. The type of EQ (filter on/off) and the frequency will depend heavily on the instruments used, the player, the way it was recorded, and the genre of music.

 

[fretmeister]

Managing bass frequencies has been my biggest challenge as a home recordist, and it is still a source of great frustration. I can't tell you how many mixes I've redone because of bass issues. In addition to the fine suggestions above, here's a technique I've discovered: I mix the bass and drums first since these are the foundation the song. Then add vocal. After the rest of the mix is done, I go back to the bass guitar and drop the low end completely. I adjust the mids and highs until I can hear the bass moving in the mix, then I add the very low frequency back in until it starts to sound right. This seems to give an aggressive bass line that doesn't sound boomy. I use a little compression\limiting to make it punchy. Good luck!