Why aren't my vocals cutting through the mix?

[Deleted member 196982]

Thank you. When you speak of cutting low end, are you talking about EQ?

Since the OP did not specify what type of music they are recording, my question is the same but definitely pointed in the solo acoustic singer/songwriter direction.

Yes, EQ is a tool that's often used, maybe dynamic EQ might work better in some cases. Sometimes adjusting the mic placement on the guitar can help. The thing to keep in mind is what is important here, and it's almost always the vocal that should be pulling the listener in.

You didn't ask me, but for singer/songwriter type recordings, I generally do not mix reverb types, but use an IR-based one that creates the "space." Since my recordings are intentionally dry, and given that, unless you're intentionally trying for some huge reverb effect, a person sitting and playing a guitar is pretty close to a single point, so the listener is not (IMHO) expecting to hear the voice bouncing around in one "space" while the guitar is rattling around in another. Doesn't mean you can't experiment with that, but that's me, and my inveterate laziness, I suspect. Once I have my tracks balanced as best possible, some automation and EQ to try and get something that sounds pretty good, I'll start working the compression on each (and there I'll probably choose different settings and emulations). I put my reverb FX on a separate, stereo bus/aux, and control the reverb [sends] of the guitar and vocal separately to that bus, probably with a tiny bit less send of the vocal to keep it slightly more forward. If you want to play around, you can have separate reverb tracks with different length and pre-delay settings, etc., to try and move the depth of the guitar and vocal separately, but, again, from a listener POV, someone sitting in a chair with a guitar and mic in front of them is not a 3D object.

I don't usually double track or multi-mic, but even if I do, the width of the image is pretty tight, e.g., 10 degrees maybe spread, maybe less. I just listened to a track someone posted elsewhere that had two rhythm guitar backings spread wide, with the vocal in the middle, and the guitars weren't really locked in on where the accents or emphasis should be, though they were Ok timing. I could *not* figure out what I was supposed to be listening to!

My 2¢
p.s. to clarify, the dry mix is fairly narrow for s/s - I let the reverb/space on the stereo bus create the wider impression.

 

[Deleted member 196982]

One thing I wonder is the OP figured out the problem, or just wanted to post this question to see what others would do.
I can count 4 to 5 ways of addressing it, but without any details much less a sound sample of what they are struggling with, others are just going to guess on what to do.
Since this post was created in April 17, 2024.

The last few posts were directed at a follow-on poster's question(s), not the OP's. But, yes, without hearing specifics on a recording, it's all guesswork. We do that a lot around here .

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

Yes, EQ is a tool that's often used, maybe dynamic EQ might work better in some cases. Sometimes adjusting the mic placement on the guitar can help. The thing to keep in mind is what is important here, and it's almost always the vocal that should be pulling the listener in.

You didn't ask me, but for singer/songwriter type recordings, I generally do not mix reverb types, but use an IR-based one that creates the "space." Since my recordings are intentionally dry, and given that, unless you're intentionally trying for some huge reverb effect, a person sitting and playing a guitar is pretty close to a single point, so the listener is not (IMHO) expecting to hear the voice bouncing around in one "space" while the guitar is rattling around in another. Doesn't mean you can't experiment with that, but that's me, and my inveterate laziness, I suspect. Once I have my tracks balanced as best possible, some automation and EQ to try and get something that sounds pretty good, I'll start working the compression on each (and there I'll probably choose different settings and emulations). I put my reverb FX on a separate, stereo bus/aux, and control the reverb [sends] of the guitar and vocal separately to that bus, probably with a tiny bit less send of the vocal to keep it slightly more forward. If you want to play around, you can have separate reverb tracks with different length and pre-delay settings, etc., to try and move the depth of the guitar and vocal separately, but, again, from a listener POV, someone sitting in a chair with a guitar and mic in front of them is not a 3D object.

I don't usually double track or multi-mic, but even if I do, the width of the image is pretty tight, e.g., 10 degrees maybe spread, maybe less. I just listened to a track someone posted elsewhere that had two rhythm guitar backings spread wide, with the vocal in the middle, and the guitars weren't really locked in on where the accents or emphasis should be, though they were Ok timing. I could *not* figure out what I was supposed to be listening to!

My 2¢
p.s. to clarify, the dry mix is fairly narrow for s/s - I let the reverb/space on the stereo bus create the wider impression.

Hi, thank you so much for all the detail. I have some work to do, haha.

 

[noah330]

Thought about making my own thread but decided to jump into this one instead.

I have a few questions that pertain to recording vocals and minimal acoustic instrumentation.

If I have a project with nothing more than a vocal track and a single miked acoustic guitar track, would I be able to accomplish the above bolded feat by duplicating the guitar track, hard panning one track left and the other right, then leaving vocals center? Or is there a simpler way?

If I have a project with vocals, a miked acoustic guitar track, and the same guitar instrument line, would it be a good idea to simply pan the guitar mic one direction and the line the other? I imagine it might sound weird to do it that way, so would I need to duplicate both tracks and do what I mentioned above?

My apologies for the elementary questions. I guess that's what forums are for

I would carve out a space in the acoustic guitar for the vocal to fit so the two instruments are not fighting each other.

 

[Xenon 6]

Having not heard anything of the work I am obviously just speculating.
Perhaps you need to work with the artist until you have a better performance?

My next thought is more vocal layers. I have worked with a female artist who had a voice as thin as tissue paper. Some of the songs had 30 layers of vocals in them at points. Unison layers that were panned left and right, harmonies, counter point harmonies, etc. These can be done subtlety enough that the average listener will have no idea it is not one voice.

Talking about layering, I had guitarists in the studio telling me: "I want my guitar to sound like that." and giving me a song to listen to. I could hear 7 tracks layered up and they weren't even the same line. He couldn't hear this at all. When I layered his guitar lines up he described it as cheating! But I did give him the sound he said he wanted.
I sometimes wonder what non-musicians hear when they listen to music?