beezelbubba
Shitty Buddhist
I like my Digitech RP300A.I don't think of it as an "amp modeler",though!It's just a box I use to get guitar sounds out of.
J
jeffree
New member
I like my tube amp. I like my amp modeler. Different beasts for different purposes. No competition there.
J.
J.
therage!
Wicked Machine
beezelbubba said:
I can relate to that..
Makes me think that just the name "amp modeler" was going to be cursed from the beginning no matter what. I've never intended for a modeler to "replace" an amp. It's just another sound making tool is all.
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NRS
New member
I've had a VOX Tonelab for about a year now and must say the unit is better sounding and a completely different concept than any amp modeler I've ever tried. The main difference is that it uses a real tube in the OUTPUT stage of the signal (as opposed to just the preamp stage) which means it can be cranked and driven to the point of power tube saturation just like a real tube amp (only at low wattage recordable line levels). This results in a great raw punchy power tube tone that even has the subltle feel and pick attack of a real tube amp when you play it.
B
beebe
New member
porn
i personaly would not want to waste my time with amp modellers. and i like what noise dude said. i wish the market didn't demad that major venders built all this crap. i wish people were more interested in new creative amplifiers and speakers that aren't trying to be anything that they are not. there are a lot of great IC's out there now like the LM3886 (see general guitar gadgets) that you can build a 60 watt amp with with super low distortion for dirt cheap (well someone building them in bulk could).
personally i like to drive power tubes i wish there were more less expensive amps like vintage tube amps (ideally for me with just one volume knob)...run one or two pedals into that thing, maybe one of them would be an eq pedal.
amp modellers are like porn...i'd rather get married to something.
i personaly would not want to waste my time with amp modellers. and i like what noise dude said. i wish the market didn't demad that major venders built all this crap. i wish people were more interested in new creative amplifiers and speakers that aren't trying to be anything that they are not. there are a lot of great IC's out there now like the LM3886 (see general guitar gadgets) that you can build a 60 watt amp with with super low distortion for dirt cheap (well someone building them in bulk could).
personally i like to drive power tubes i wish there were more less expensive amps like vintage tube amps (ideally for me with just one volume knob)...run one or two pedals into that thing, maybe one of them would be an eq pedal.
amp modellers are like porn...i'd rather get married to something.
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Ronan
New member
I am really happy to see that across the net people are starting to see that the emporer has no clothes when it comes to amp modelers. I think the tide is starting to trun against them, which is a good thing for recored music.
In regards to the no talent artist blaming his tools comment, that is sort of like saying if a chef had only dog shit and piss to prepare a meal with and could not make a good tasting meal, it would be because the chef had no talent.
In regards to the no talent artist blaming his tools comment, that is sort of like saying if a chef had only dog shit and piss to prepare a meal with and could not make a good tasting meal, it would be because the chef had no talent.
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dyingserenity
New member
To me when someone is using a amp Modeller to record they are cheating their self and NOT learning miking techniges and they are pretty much cheating all the way..LET THE PRESETS DO ALL FOR ME! 
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NRS
New member
Theres all sorts of good reasons for recording with an amp modeler like:
1) I cant afford an expensive tube amp or high end mic
2) I dont want to deal with the inherent problems of a tube amp (noise, tube failure,ect)
3) I need access to a wide variety of amp sounds in compact form
4) My recording set up is in a location where space is limited and high volume is not an option.
I would agree that most amp modelers arent quite there yet, but some are pretty good (Tonelab, Amplitube) and they still serve a useful purpose, especially for HOME recording. As for "cheating", I'm sure the same things been said of many products that have made life a little easier over the years (such as PC's vs. typewriters). Remember, in the end what you will be judged on will be your final product, not how you produced it! If someone can fool the listener and save time and money while doing it, more power to them. Sometimes programming such products can be an art in itself.
1) I cant afford an expensive tube amp or high end mic
2) I dont want to deal with the inherent problems of a tube amp (noise, tube failure,ect)
3) I need access to a wide variety of amp sounds in compact form
4) My recording set up is in a location where space is limited and high volume is not an option.
I would agree that most amp modelers arent quite there yet, but some are pretty good (Tonelab, Amplitube) and they still serve a useful purpose, especially for HOME recording. As for "cheating", I'm sure the same things been said of many products that have made life a little easier over the years (such as PC's vs. typewriters). Remember, in the end what you will be judged on will be your final product, not how you produced it! If someone can fool the listener and save time and money while doing it, more power to them. Sometimes programming such products can be an art in itself.
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Sirnothingness
Banned
I think you should go with whatever you want to. For me, recording with an amp modeler works out nicely. And I think the sounds I get are great.
amra
Well-known member
Ronan said:
Yea, the tide is starting to turn against Digital Audio too!
OR NOT.
Guys like you might as well accept it. Technology is still fundamentally changing the way recordings are made. Get used to it.
Ronan
New member
amra said:
Not True, there seems to be no slowing down in the rush towards eliminating analog recording formats from the planet. This is too bad because they offer certain options that I am not sure digital audio will be able to replicate.
amra said:
huh? What kind of guy would that be? I have been using computers to make music for almost 20 years. I was working with Pro Tools the week version 1.0 hit the market (and the digi production sound tools before that). I was one of the producers of the International Computer Music Conference 10 years ago and have spent much of my life promoting the development of new music and technologies. Every time a new technology apears I am excited to try it. Some of them are cool (non destructive editing) and some of them are not (amp modelers).
I guess back in the 80's when simmons electronic drums came out, guys like me should have gotten used to the fact that technology is changing and just settle for crappy drum sounds. I am not a genius or the best engineer on the planet but I have made a few hundred records and every time I have mixed a record where the guitars were recorded with digital amp emulators, that fact has hurt the record, rather than helped it. The fake guitar amp tracks not only sound bad, but they hurt the sound of the other instruments in a mix as well.
I am not saying its wrong for people to use digital fake amps, or that its even wrong for people to love the way they sound, but all I can offer is my experience and the little bit of knowldedge I have gained, and until people start posting questions like "I don't really care about sound quality and I want my overall mixes to be smeared and lifeless, how can I do that in my studio...." I will keep chiming in with what little I know that might help people make better recordings. There are non digital emulator ways to record that address almost every defense of digital emulators that do a better job and usually cost less money (SansAmp, original Boogie studio pre-amps..)
Ben Logan
New member
I was blown away be the Line 6 POD when I tried (and buyed) it at our music store. I made some recordings. Embarrassing results. I went "direct-injection." Made a nice pre would have helped. But...man.
The POD is a kick-ass practice tool though. Lots of fun.
The POD is a kick-ass practice tool though. Lots of fun.
beezelbubba
Shitty Buddhist
I'm glad I'm creative and poor enough not to give a shit about being a purist.
I can make music with anything!
I can make music with anything!
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nkjanssen
New member
Here are some of the classic strawman arguments in favour of modellers:
But, in fact, a cheap tube amp with an SM57 will sound better than a modeller 99.9% of the time.
But, in fact, unless it has been totally thrashed, a decent tube amp is a very reliable thing. Any of the dozens of tube amps I have used or owned over the years have certainly been more reliable than any software I've ever used. These "inherent problems" are not at all inherent.
Bullshit. How many sounds did Hendrix need? How many sounds did Clapton need? Page? Beck? Stevie? Keif? Townshend? Montgomery? Christian? Van Halen? Why do you need more than those guys? Conversely, how did any of them ever manage without a POD?
I've lived in plenty of apartments. Recording in one is not ideal, but it can be done. I'll give you this - a POD is great for goofing around and practicing late at night; maybe getting some rough demo's down. I'll be damned if I'm ever going to let that thig get onto a finished product though. When it comes time to record it for real, its worth it to figure out a way to use a real amp. Maybe you move your rig to a friend's house to track guitars. Maybe you just play at a lower volume and during the day. It can be done if you really want to do it. If it doesn't really matter to you, though, do what's convenient - use the POD.
NRS said:
But, in fact, a cheap tube amp with an SM57 will sound better than a modeller 99.9% of the time.
But, in fact, unless it has been totally thrashed, a decent tube amp is a very reliable thing. Any of the dozens of tube amps I have used or owned over the years have certainly been more reliable than any software I've ever used. These "inherent problems" are not at all inherent.
Bullshit. How many sounds did Hendrix need? How many sounds did Clapton need? Page? Beck? Stevie? Keif? Townshend? Montgomery? Christian? Van Halen? Why do you need more than those guys? Conversely, how did any of them ever manage without a POD?
I've lived in plenty of apartments. Recording in one is not ideal, but it can be done. I'll give you this - a POD is great for goofing around and practicing late at night; maybe getting some rough demo's down. I'll be damned if I'm ever going to let that thig get onto a finished product though. When it comes time to record it for real, its worth it to figure out a way to use a real amp. Maybe you move your rig to a friend's house to track guitars. Maybe you just play at a lower volume and during the day. It can be done if you really want to do it. If it doesn't really matter to you, though, do what's convenient - use the POD.
beezelbubba
Shitty Buddhist
nkjanssen said:
A
ahuimanu
New member
I'll be the first to admit that the modelers HAVE drawbacks and weaknesses.
However, I'll see your strawman and raise:
"sound better" is entirely subjective and there are certain to be exceptions to your assertion here.
you'll never have enough evidence to support this beyond subjectivity. One problem alone (one that is strange and foreign) is enough to earn a "unreliable" score.
How many ways did Columbus/De Gama/Chris Cook need to explore the earth? They got along just fine with their wooden sailboats. New modes of transit exist now and they are all used according to their strengths, weaknesses, costs and benefits. There's more to choose from and a WHOLE new crowd has access to tools which allow them to express themselves.
Yes, but the principle appeal of these units to HOME recorders is: I can get tones close to what I've always dreamed of at 3 A.M. in near-silence. The appeal of these units is the ability to get reasonable tones on a schedule and circumstances that fit in with their lives. Surely, if you are going for pro, you'd do so, but that VAST majority of the folks in a HOME RECORDING forum are likely severely constrained such that modelers give them options that wer unavailable 10 - 15 years ago.
If a strawman argument is a weak one, then some common criteria are needed to assess what is weak and what is not. You points are invalid to some.
However, I'll see your strawman and raise:
nkjanssen said:
"sound better" is entirely subjective and there are certain to be exceptions to your assertion here.
you'll never have enough evidence to support this beyond subjectivity. One problem alone (one that is strange and foreign) is enough to earn a "unreliable" score.
How many ways did Columbus/De Gama/Chris Cook need to explore the earth? They got along just fine with their wooden sailboats. New modes of transit exist now and they are all used according to their strengths, weaknesses, costs and benefits. There's more to choose from and a WHOLE new crowd has access to tools which allow them to express themselves.
Yes, but the principle appeal of these units to HOME recorders is: I can get tones close to what I've always dreamed of at 3 A.M. in near-silence. The appeal of these units is the ability to get reasonable tones on a schedule and circumstances that fit in with their lives. Surely, if you are going for pro, you'd do so, but that VAST majority of the folks in a HOME RECORDING forum are likely severely constrained such that modelers give them options that wer unavailable 10 - 15 years ago.
If a strawman argument is a weak one, then some common criteria are needed to assess what is weak and what is not. You points are invalid to some.
A
ahuimanu
New member
therage! said:
model: a simplified description of a complex entity or process... WordNet, 2003 Princeton University
dragonworks
Banned
I like my blanket and I still suck my thumb.
N
nkjanssen
New member
ahuimanu said:
Sure. If you prefer the sound of a POD better than a small tube amp with an SM-57, so be it. I find that bizarre, but to each his own. The assertion that you need an expensive tube amp and an expensive mic to sound good is total bullshit, though.
So, if one amp in a thousand has some minor issue at some point in its life, that's sufficient to declare that "tube amps are unreliable"? Utter nonsense.
A mode of transportation is hardly analagous to a tool of artistic expression. Seriously, how many great guitarists use a thousand different sounds? Most have a few sounds that are characteristic of their playing. The guys who "neeeeeed" a thousand sounds always seem to be the ones who spend all their time diddling in their basements with the presets on their PODS instead of learning how to actually play.
Yep. It's a substitute. A compromise. A fake. Fine if you're not that serious about your sound. No problem eating a baloney sandwich now and then instead of steak. The problem is that a lot of people think they're getting steak when they buy the baloney. They're told "its either filet mingon or baloney; those are you're only options", when in actual fact you could get a nice ribeye for not much more than the baloney.
E
etnoziroh
New member
beezelbubba said:
Beautiful
You can't argue taste.