Fs: Local Music Store Clearing Out!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris Klein
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I'm kind of an outsider here but here's my take. These guys are all over the web.
Call the police anyway. If good old mom ( or whoever ) actually sends you the money then great...You can call the dogs off.
I bet a shiny new nickel that on Tuesday you get a whole new line of B.S. from her.
Good luck to all who donated to this kids crack fund.
 
I've filed a complaint with PayPal & I'll let them do their thing. I'll also be following suit with ProTools, and file complaints with the Michigan State Police & IFCC.
 
I don't mean to be un-empathetic, far from it, but WHY would you take the guy's word for it and send him money without doing any solid background checks ? At least with payments via PayPal you'd at least have the option of having the charges reversed but sending $1000 via snail mail ?? I'm sorry but I could smell trouble right from the start. Again, I'm sorry about what had happened.

~Daniel
 
cjacek said:
I don't mean to be un-empathetic, far from it, but WHY would you take the guy's word for it and send him money without doing any solid background checks ? At least with payments via PayPal you'd at least have the option of having the charges reversed but sending $1000 via snail mail ?? I'm sorry but I could smell trouble right from the start. Again, I'm sorry about what had happened.

~Daniel
Np Daniel, deals like this take place alot when your dealing with forums. Take a look at GearSlutz and Digidesign.....some are handled thru paypal and many others are not. Most items on those sites are well over 1000.00 and if you read a little closer you will see that I did check addresses along with matching the phone number to the address.....and making a personal phone call before mailing the money. So I feel I did all the things right but the person on the selling end didnt keep their part of the bargain so I guess thats what you risk when dealing with forums.

Peace
Eddie D
 
cjacek said:
I don't mean to be un-empathetic, far from it, but WHY would you take the guy's word for it and send him money without doing any solid background checks ? At least with payments via PayPal you'd at least have the option of having the charges reversed but sending $1000 via snail mail ?? I'm sorry but I could smell trouble right from the start. Again, I'm sorry about what had happened.

~Daniel

It's easy to say you "smell trouble" when you're not involved. The guy gave his name, address & his phone number which are all legit & are all still in use & still able to make contact through that number.
Since I am one of thoses that are having trouble with the same guy...Let me set you straight on the PayPal myth.>>I paid through PayPal<< & when I contacted them the thing that they made perfectly & absolutely clear, is that they could not guarantee that I would get my money back. They are involved, but it's basically...they sent him an email & if he doesn't respond within 10 days, the complaint is decided in my favor. :rolleyes: That still doesn't mean I'll get my money back & I'm not really sure what it means. You might want to check, because it is obviously just a myth that PayPal somehow guarantees you that your money will be refunded, or that it is even a good safety net for the buyer. Like eBay, it is set up to benefit the seller, because they are the ones who pay the fees to PayPal, eBay, etc.
But....the Michigan State Police officer I talked to seemed pretty upset when he found out who I was filing my complaint against, He recognized Eddie's name & just asked me if I wanted my money back & we were off & running.
It's just a wait & see right now....but I advise & can tell you guys from what I am experiencing...don't get to confident, just because you use PayPal.
 
well boys!...i reckon its time we saddle up and get us a branding iron to let some of these scammers know who they be dealin with!.
 
stratosaurus said:
B]Let me set you straight on the PayPal myth[/B].>>I paid through PayPal<< & when I contacted them the thing that they made perfectly & absolutely clear, is that they could not guarantee that I would get my money back.

You could have reversed charges on your credit card if you used that form of payment via PayPal. That's what I meant. I would never use credit in my PP account as payment or a bank transfer, for you'll have a much harder time getting your money refunded that way.

Ok, so you did reasonable "homework" researching the guy but you should have used a credit card. Always use a credit card.

Btw, I "smelled trouble" because I speak from experience, having been involved in good and bad transactions in the past.

Best wishes,

~Daniel
 
cjacek said:
You could have reversed charges on your credit card if you used that form of payment via PayPal. That's what I meant. I would never use credit in my PP account as payment or a bank transfer, for you'll have a much harder time getting your money refunded that way.

Ok, so you did reasonable "homework" researching the guy but you should have used a credit card. Always use a credit card.

Btw, I "smelled trouble" because I speak from experience, having been involved in good and bad transactions in the past.

Best wishes,

~Daniel

Sorry to hear you've also had trouble. This is my first trouble & I've probably got 200+ transactions on different forums, plus another 100+ on eBay, over the last 6-7 years. Hopefully, this will improve my ability to "smell trouble" a little bit! :)
Credit cards may be the way to go, but the only real trouble I've had, is that when using credit cards, I spend way more than I can afford! :mad:....so I've gone to a cash/debit system to keep my overspending intact. This might actually lead me back to using them again, but I'll definitely pay them off monthly to keep on the track toward my "debt-free life" :rolleyes: :D
 
cjacek said:
You could have reversed charges on your credit card if you used that form of payment via PayPal. That's what I meant. I would never use credit in my PP account as payment or a bank transfer, for you'll have a much harder time getting your money refunded that way.


Well now that is interesting. Now I see why PayPal says I transfered money to my PayPal account from my bank account BEFORE it sends it to the party. :eek: :cool:

Where-as a Credit Card would provide protection because they have some other laws tied up with them, right?

Hmmmm.....I have seen a lot of eBay sellers that say PayPal is accepted but not with CreditCards. Not that they are trying to scam based on that, because the CreditCard takes a few days to go to their account, but that is an interesting item right there. :o Luckily my Debit Card is a credit card too, so I just have to add it as a credit card. I just beat the system. Aint life grand.
 
stratosaurus said:
Let me set you straight on the PayPal myth.>>I paid through PayPal<< & when I contacted them the thing that they made perfectly & absolutely clear, is that they could not guarantee that I would get my money back. They are involved, but it's basically...they sent him an email & if he doesn't respond within 10 days, the complaint is decided in my favor. :rolleyes: That still doesn't mean I'll get my money back & I'm not really sure what it means. You might want to check, because it is obviously just a myth that PayPal somehow guarantees you that your money will be refunded, or that it is even a good safety net for the buyer.

Strictly speaking, Paypal Buyer Protection only exists for certain eBay items where the seller is eligible.

For non-eBay transaction, you have the dispute process, which is where you are now. The main difference is it's dependent upon the seller still having funds in their account, whereas with an eBay transaction Paypal is supposed to go out of pocket if the seller doesn't have the funds. Then they send their legbreakers out to get the seller ;)

The secondary protection with Paypal is contesting the charge with your credit card, if you paid with a CC. If you paid with a bank transfer or Paypal balance, then Paypal's dispute process is all there is.

Except of course for the cops :cool:
 
Outlaws said:
Well now that is interesting. Now I see why PayPal says I transfered money to my PayPal account from my bank account BEFORE it sends it to the party. :eek: :cool:

Where-as a Credit Card would provide protection because they have some other laws tied up with them, right?

Hmmmm.....I have seen a lot of eBay sellers that say PayPal is accepted but not with CreditCards. Not that they are trying to scam based on that, because the CreditCard takes a few days to go to their account, but that is an interesting item right there. :o Luckily my Debit Card is a credit card too, so I just have to add it as a credit card. I just beat the system. Aint life grand.

You pretty much nailed it on the head.

Yes, that's right .. most, if not all Credit Cards, have fraud protection.

I ONLY go with sellers who accept credit cards via PayPal. No exceptions.

You'll notice that PayPal prefers money being debited from your PP account or direct transfer from your bank. That way PP protects itself (and its sellers) from unauthorized use of stolen CCs and thus chargebacks, but at the same time if you're dealing with a fraudulent seller and you're a legitimate buyer who uses anything but a credit card then you're most likely f*cked.

~Daniel
 
Please don't take this as presumptuous, but this may be a good time for all of us to remind ourselves how to do business safely on the internet.

Let's begin by reviewing a few facts.

First fact: 95% of the people who offer to do business with you over the internet are trying to steal your money. Does that number seem high? Well, it probably does until you think carefully. Think of all the offers you get from Princess Ubabwe from Nigeria asking you to help her get $10,000,000 into the United States (most of them are probably getting trapped by your spam filter by now). Think of all the "verility enhancement" e-mails you get. Think of all the scams you get every day that you ignore and forget about because you see it so often. And when you think about all of them, it becomes clear that 95% of the people offering to do business with you are, in fact, just trying to steal your money.

Second fact: Many, or even most, of the scammers out there may be too stupid to fool you us smart people on Home Recording.com. (We know from the political posts in the cave that we are, in fact, smarter than most people in America. :) ) BUT NOT ALL OF THEM ARE STUPID. Don't let your ego get in the way of common sense --- a number of intelligent people on this forum just got scammed by a punk kid whose voice barely changed. Plenty of the thiefs are smart enough to fool you, no matter how smart you are and no matter how much due diligence you have done.

Third fact (this is the most important one): When you run into one of the scammers who is smart enough to fool you, YOU WON'T KNOW IT UNTIL YOUR MONEY IS GONE. Isn't this obvious? It should be, but it's not. That's why those who got scammed here thought they were safe --- they assumed that because they had done their "due diligence" and they were smart people, this kid must be legit. WRONG. If you're smart and you have done your due diligence and still haven't identified a problem, then all it means is that you may be dealing with a scammer who is too smart for you to tell.

Now, armed with these three facts, let's use our common sense. First, from the third fact, we know that every time someone offers to do business with you on the internet, they might be scamming you and you have to take precautions. You have three reasonable options.

Option 1: Go into the transaction accepting the possibility of getting ripped off. Make sure it's not so much money that you can't afford to lose it. Note that this is a perfectly legitimate option --- probably 80% of my transactions are this way. A $1000 Avalon channel probably wouldn't be in this category for me, though, but maybe some of you are much better off than I am.

Option 2: If you can't afford to get ripped off, then take the extra effort that will make it impossible to get ripped off. This could mean meeting the seller in person at a public place to make the exchange. It could mean putting the item in escow. There are many options, but none of them include sending the guy money and hoping he sends the goods as promised. It's more effort and expense, but it's the logical choice if you can't afford to get ripped off for the amount at stake.

Option 3: do without whatever you're trying to buy. It really isn't that hard. Your life wasn't over without it before, and it won't be over without it now.

I know it's always easier to smell a con after the fact. But if you make it standard practice to take these precautions or do without, there will never be an after the fact that involves enough money to worry about.
 
This is why I support execution over prisons. Just watch how fast people stop little things like this.
 
Kelby said:
Please don't take this as presumptuous...

You can bet from this opening that it will be exactly that.

Kelby said:
Let's begin by reviewing a few facts.

First fact: 95% of the people who offer to do business with you over the internet are trying to steal your money. Does that number seem high? Well, it probably does until you think carefully. Think of all the offers you get from Princess Ubabwe from Nigeria asking you to help her get $10,000,000 into the United States (most of them are probably getting trapped by your spam filter by now). Think of all the "verility enhancement" e-mails you get. Think of all the scams you get every day that you ignore and forget about because you see it so often. And when you think about all of them, it becomes clear that 95% of the people offering to do business with you are, in fact, just trying to steal your money.

Think of the millions of transactions taking place over e-bay, amazon.com, overstock.com, yahoo.com, walmart.com, target.com, sears.com, etc, etc. This is just a ridiculous statement. The percentage of fraudulent transactions is probably well under 5% of all the business done online. Of course there are scammers and thieves, but it's just stupid to believe that virtually everyone doing business is a crook. If that were the case then you'd have to be an idiot to ever attempt to purchase anything since you'd have well over a 9 in ten chance of getting your money stolen.

Like most bad things, that's what makes the news. You're not going to hear Peter Jennings reporting "Today, 20 million people made purchases online and didn't lose their money."

Kelby said:
Second fact: Many, or even most, of the scammers out there may be too stupid to fool you us smart people on Home Recording.com. (We know from the political posts in the cave that we are, in fact, smarter than most people in America. :) ) BUT NOT ALL OF THEM ARE STUPID. Don't let your ego get in the way of common sense --- a number of intelligent people on this forum just got scammed by a punk kid whose voice barely changed. Plenty of the thiefs are smart enough to fool you, no matter how smart you are and no matter how much due diligence you have done.

This is basically true, however using the moronic level of discourse in the Cave to bolster your argument is questionable. ;)

Kelby said:
Third fact (this is the most important one): When you run into one of the scammers who is smart enough to fool you, YOU WON'T KNOW IT UNTIL YOUR MONEY IS GONE. Isn't this obvious? It should be, but it's not. That's why those who got scammed here thought they were safe --- they assumed that because they had done their "due diligence" and they were smart people, this kid must be legit. WRONG. If you're smart and you have done your due diligence and still haven't identified a problem, then all it means is that you may be dealing with a scammer who is too smart for you to tell.

Now, armed with these three facts, let's use our common sense. First, from the third fact, we know that every time someone offers to do business with you on the internet, they might be scamming you and you have to take precautions. You have three reasonable options.

Option 1: Go into the transaction accepting the possibility of getting ripped off. Make sure it's not so much money that you can't afford to lose it. Note that this is a perfectly legitimate option --- probably 80% of my transactions are this way. A $1000 Avalon channel probably wouldn't be in this category for me, though, but maybe some of you are much better off than I am.

Option 2: If you can't afford to get ripped off, then take the extra effort that will make it impossible to get ripped off. This could mean meeting the seller in person at a public place to make the exchange. It could mean putting the item in escow. There are many options, but none of them include sending the guy money and hoping he sends the goods as promised. It's more effort and expense, but it's the logical choice if you can't afford to get ripped off for the amount at stake.

Option 3: do without whatever you're trying to buy. It really isn't that hard. Your life wasn't over without it before, and it won't be over without it now.

I know it's always easier to smell a con after the fact. But if you make it standard practice to take these precautions or do without, there will never be an after the fact that involves enough money to worry about.

Armed with these "facts" you would only have one reasonable option- Don't do business online. It's not "reasonable" to enter into a transaction where you believe that 95 out of 100 times the person is trying to steal your money and you believe that a certain percentage of these thieves are smarter than you and you will be unable to determine who they are no matter your efforts.

I have been a victim, but that is certainly not the norm. I've bought many different products through numerous sources and have been ripped off once. I let my guard down and had I been even a little more careful it wouldn't have happened. Of course I blame the perp, but I share some responsibility and learned a valuable, albeit expensive lesson.

I'm sorry Kelby, I know you meant well, but I guess having lost money, I don't really appreciate the smug attitude (intended or not).

I'm very intelligent, but I made a mistake. It happens. That doesn't mean I should never trust an online seller again. I've also gotten ripped off by people whom I've met face to face. There are crooks running all manner of scams. We should be cautious, yes. Wary, even, at times. Still, most of us are honest. If it was otherwise, society would collapse and anarchy would reign.

Ted
 
I was considering buying one of the firepods Chris was selling, and I'm glad I didn't get involved. It's just shameful that people bother with scams like this when they could probably make the same amount of money with an education and a job. I know that's a vast oversimplification of the criminal mentality, but it makes me wonder...

All that aside though, I have another problem I was wondering if you guys could help me with. My father happens to be a foreign investment banker, and he was telling me recently about a client in Laos that was giving him a lot of trouble. Apparently this client has the sum of US$85,000,000 in a frozen account and needs to withdraw the funds immediately to prevent government seizure...something about the nationalization of his company.

Unfortunately he can't withdraw it himself because he has nowhere to keep it. He just needs an account in an economically stable market where he can make a temporary deposit to be withdrawn soon thereafter. My father says that the client would pay the sum of $6,000,000 for the services of such an account, but he's too lazy to get someone to spend 15 minutes at Bank of America to open up a standard checking account...strange, huh?

Anyways, if any of you could just give me your bank account numbers, social security numbers, credit card information, address, phone number, receipts and taxes for the last 17 years, a photo ID, dog tags, fingerprints, dna sample, a note or letter in your own handwriting (preferably one that is signed), your high school and/or college diplomas, daily horoscope, IP address with all related accounts and passwords, a box of cookies, a coupon for the sushi buffet, your least favorite child, a Rode NTK, and a Presonus Firepod then we can get the ball rolling.

Once we get all those things the deposit will be made. If you have any questions just PM me. I'll be in contact through the board, so don't worry about me vanishing or anything. I know it sounds risky, what with all those scammers out there... :rolleyes:
 
Its times like these that make me happy I have very little money to spend.
 
dragonworks said:
Its times like these that make me happy I have very little money to spend.

Well, if you would take the offer in leaving's post, you wouldn't have that problem anymore. :rolleyes:
 
stratosaurus said:
Well, if you would take the offer in leaving's post, you wouldn't have that problem anymore. :rolleyes:


you wasted that one on me
 
Ted,

I'm sorry you got ripped off, and I'm sorry that you took my post as smug. It was not intended that way, and I don't believe it was that way, but I appreciate that you must be frustrated over this whole mess and that colors the way you perceive my post.

(FWIW, I think you grossly misinterpreted some of my comments, but perhaps it was poor wording on my part.)

I don't advocate avoiding all online business. Most of my purchases, other than groceries, are online. It's not a matter of avoiding online transactions because you fear people are dishonest; it's a matter of taking precautions (escrow for large purchases, etc.) that make it difficult for the person to rip you off regardless of whether they are dishonest. I posted because most people here seemed to be focused on doing a better job seeing the red flags that indicate the seller was dishonest, and that approach won't always save you. The Internet is a much safer place if you assume there is a reasonable chance you are dealing with a crook and you take appropriate precautions.

Good luck.
Kelby.
 
Well I say if you are dumb enough to send your money to someone with those few post then you deserve to get took for your money.... PT user you should of drove to michigan to get it like I told you the other day when I was at your house, I'am truly sorry that this has happened to you guys and I hope that you do get your money back! PTuser, Good luck on that project that WE were suspose to do together :mad:

Holla
 
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