Flutter Emergency!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ignatius-
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Ignatius-

Ignatius-

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Hey guys,
So, I have a mastering date in two weeks... and guess what? My Tascam 32 just decided to start having flutter problems. I'm about half way done with the mixes, and in the middle of playback of one of the tracks the recording started sounding funny - sort of detuned, strange sounding. Then I realized it was a flutter problem. It was like one moment it's fine, and the next it's not.

I'm kind of in emergency mode - I don't really know what to do. I cleaned the pinch roller with warm, soapy water for a good chunk of time last night, but it seemed to only help a little bit. I was reading about cleaning pinch rollers and it seems like there are hundreds of ways to do it (warm water w/ or w/out soap, ronsonol, sand paper variations, alcohol variations, windex? etc.).

I've never really noticed this before, but right after the tape passes the pinch roller/capstan, on my machine, it seems to "bend" just slightly (when the tape is playing). Also, it sometimes makes a faint "woosh, woosh" sound when in playback/record. I know that flutter problems can be caused by a number of different things (bad belt, shot motor, etc.), but this seems like a pinch roller problem...

What do you guys think? I really don't want to reschedule the mastering date, but if I can't get this sorted out, I might have to... Is there something that I am missing? Is it possible I messed up the pinch roller further while cleaning it? How exactly are you supposed to clean a pinch roller? Did I do it wrong? I am really second-guessing myself right now... I've never really paid attention to the pinch roller (first mistake) because I've never had any problems with it. Should I look into over-nighting a new roller? Or belt? Anyway, let me know what you guys think.
 
Brother...you just better cancel your "mastering" date until you learn about reel to reels :eek:
 
Umm... I would say that was a little harsh. I've been doing this for a while and have had no trouble with flutter before... I'm just asking because this is a new experience for me. Does it really sound like I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing?
 
The pinch roller on my old Sony machine is actually deformed a little. It sat not being used since Vietnam and when I got it a few years ago, the tapes played fluttered. I noticed the pinch roller was slightly deformed as if it was squeezed.

New pinch rollers for your machine are about $34. Kinda expensive, but worth it to not have flutter.
 
Ignatius- said:
Hey guys,
So, I have a mastering date in two weeks... and guess what? My Tascam 32 just decided to start having flutter problems. I'm about half way done with the mixes, and in the middle of playback of one of the tracks the recording started sounding funny - sort of detuned, strange sounding. Then I realized it was a flutter problem. It was like one moment it's fine, and the next it's not.

I'm kind of in emergency mode - I don't really know what to do. I cleaned the pinch roller with warm, soapy water for a good chunk of time last night, but it seemed to only help a little bit. I was reading about cleaning pinch rollers and it seems like there are hundreds of ways to do it (warm water w/ or w/out soap, ronsonol, sand paper variations, alcohol variations, windex? etc.).

I've never really noticed this before, but right after the tape passes the pinch roller/capstan, on my machine, it seems to "bend" just slightly (when the tape is playing). Also, it sometimes makes a faint "woosh, woosh" sound when in playback/record. I know that flutter problems can be caused by a number of different things (bad belt, shot motor, etc.), but this seems like a pinch roller problem...

What do you guys think? I really don't want to reschedule the mastering date, but if I can't get this sorted out, I might have to... Is there something that I am missing? Is it possible I messed up the pinch roller further while cleaning it? How exactly are you supposed to clean a pinch roller? Did I do it wrong? I am really second-guessing myself right now... I've never really paid attention to the pinch roller (first mistake) because I've never had any problems with it. Should I look into over-nighting a new roller? Or belt? Anyway, let me know what you guys think.
Click to expand...

Most likely the belt needs to be replaced. I've opened up my 32 a couple of times with little difficulty so you should be able to do this and just see what is the situation with the belt. I'm pretty sure replacement belts for the Tascam 32 are readily available on US eBay and these things are a consumable (albeit should last a number of years) so first thing I would do is have a look inside and if in any doubt, order in a new belt (or two if you plan on keeping the machine for a few years and can't afford the machine downtime)
 
So did this just started overnight ? Was the machine fine? Or it slowly started to show up this. Check the following:

1. Put some pressure on the pinch roller by hand. Press the pinch roller axle towards the capstan and see if that makes a difference. It maybe e pinch roller pressure

2. By visual inspection check if the pinch roller is deformed or not

3. Put your fInger on the capstan and put some resistance, do you feel the flutter ? Is it irregular to the touch ? If so, it may be the belt.

4. Chec the tape path, tape guides. Do the move freely and smooth ? Is the tape path clean ? Clean everything with 99% alcohol, guides, heads, all.

5. Worst case scenario will be the capstan motor. Which is $120.

6. Is the flutter the same at 7.5ips vs 15ips ?

7. Does the machine ff and rw as expected ?
 
I am going to check these things out right now. I just bought a new pinch roller and new belt on ebay... If it isn't either of those, it won't hurt to have a spare! I will let you know what the deal is once I finish checking it out.

In response to fgonza2: It at least happened within one night... I was mixing down for about 3 hours. I digitized the first several songs, and upon playback of the track closest to the end of the reel, I noticed something was different. I remember listening to one of the mixes of the right after I recorded it, and nothing was different. Then, about an hour later, (when I was digitizing) it was obviously different. As for the other things, I will check that out later tonight. Probably going to open up the back and check out the belt...

Thanks for the help everybody.
 
TASCAM MAN said:
Brother...you just better cancel your "mastering" date until you learn about reel to reels :eek:
Click to expand...

That wasn't very nice,...
I mean,.. how can you know exactly just how much this person knows about reel recording?
I've been recording with a reel to reel since I was 8 years old and still don't know everything at 39.

I definitely would have worded that a different way.
I don't know,..that's just my opinion. I'd rather build someone up to help them achieve where they wanna go rather than tear 'em down and tell them to give up.

Not tryin' to start an argument here either,...
We have a nice little community here in the Analog section where we all help one another.
 
So, I'm checking it out right now... I didn't realize I had to take the front face plate off to get to the belt, so I am going to run the tests you guys suggested. I forgot, it does ff and rw perfectly. The reason I was a little wigged out was that I had it serviced about 4 months ago... The technician said it had a lot of life left (it was practically unused when I got it). So, I didn't think I was going to have any problems with it for a while.

Right now I feel like it might be the belt. The capstan feels a little irregular, but I don't know what it is supposed to feel like (or how I am supposed to feel it). I just recorded some test tones in one minute increments at the beginning, middle and end of another tape. What I heard in playback was really strange. I played each back combining both 1k tones (the one from my tone generator, and the one that I recorded on the tape), and the meters on my board went crazy. At the beginning of the tape, they would fluctuate every couple of seconds from -15db to +1db - kind of oscillating. As I went further into the tape, the oscillations would get faster and more inconsistent (while combining both tones) - not an even oscillation. It was different each time I played it back.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what this could be? If the belt was shot, how would the machine be acting differently? I have to work tomorrow, so I don't want to stay up for a while trying to take the face plate off... I will probably do it tomorrow after work.
 
Ignatius- said:
Umm... I would say that was a little harsh. I've been doing this for a while and have had no trouble with flutter before... I'm just asking because this is a new experience for me. Does it really sound like I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing?
Click to expand...


Well BRO. Im not trying to be "harsh" are "mean" as someone accused me here but.....mastering date??? If you are doing services for clients I think you should have some type of back-up besides the ONE 32 that you are using.And NO I did NOT accuse you of not having no idea of what you are doing...sorry if I offended you and I hope you resolve the problem.But do yourself a big favor and use professionals to get your machine in top notch shape and trust me,you will be a lot more happy than fighting with it yourself. ;)
 
You have cleaned the tape path real well before you dive into replacing parts? Even slightly sticky tape and a small buildup on the path will create all sorts of fun and games to be worked out. I personally LOVE SSS tape! Its gotten me a lot of great deals on tape machines, LOL. Assuming all is clean and tidy, then...

I just picked up a 38, which is mechanically very similar to a 32. The belt was goo and the pinch roller wasnt far behind. The belts, as mentioned, are readily available on the Bay. I got one overnight and it was 9 bucks all up. Its a bit of a fuss to change it out, but not that bad. Remove the pitch control knob (1.5mm allen key), then remove the nut that secures the pitch control. I use a pair of needle nose pliers that fit nicely into the two slots on the nut. The take off the head cover (2 socket cap screws), then there are 8 more on the front panel. Also three phillips head screws at the bottom. remove the tension arm rollers and pinch roller, now the front plate can come off. there is one plug (on a 38 at least) that connects the transport controls to the mail wiring harness, unplug. Now the fun begins. disconnect the tension spring on the pinch roller solenoid. There are four phillips head screws that secure the "head block" to the machine. Once they are removed, you can swing the head block up and to the left. Now its just a matter of cleaning the mess up (if its a gooey belt) and put the new one on. Good a time as any to lube the tension arm pivots, capstan flywheel bearings and brake pivot point. Reverse the steps to get it back together and there you go.
 
No, I am having my album mastered by a mastering engineer… I wouldn't make someone pay me to "master" something with only a TASCAM 32 and some budget outboard gear :). Maybe "mix" something for free, and I would give a pretty long disclaimer ;)... The TASCAM 32 is strictly for the mixes I will be giving to the mastering engineer. I see the misunderstanding now.

As for the tape path... I cleaned it up really well, and the problem is still there. Thanks for the directions on removing the face plate… I will probably do it tonight.
 
Well...if you're needing to get the mastering done soon, and you aren't able to sort out the "flutter"....just mixdown to your DAW and leave the 32 out of the equation.
I think the problems you will get from the 32 as-is will be more audible than the loss of tape flavor from not using the 32 for mixdown.
You are apparently digitizing the mixes off of the 32 anyway...so it's not a major step for you to just skip the 32, and I'm sure the mastering house can add some additional "flavor" for you to compensate for the missing 32. :)

I've mixed to tape--DAW, and also just to DAW...and both can work well. I assume you initially tracked to tape? If so, then you already have "tape goodness" on the tracks, so just focus on your mixes for now instead of the problems of the 32.
You can sort that out in the future...or just postpone the mastering until you do.
 
Okay, so I'm back. I got the pinch roller and belt in the mail today... Put them both on (after a bit of anxiety over the removing the face plate, etc.), and I think it worked... ? I am so totally in my head right now. The belt didn't really look that worn, but it felt pretty stiff compared to the one I got in the mail. Also, there was some rubber goo on the capstan motor wheel thing (I don't know what that's called, not the big fly wheel). But let's just say it wasn't nearly as bad as one of the belts I replaced on my 246...

Then, I went back and recorded the same 1k test tone that I had recorded before I replaced those parts. The new tone played back at pitch, and the original tone played back about 5 cents flat. That, to me, seems to indicate that I fixed something - you know, the new tone played back at pitch whereas the original one played back flat. I'm more of a musician than a technician, so I don't know how that should be expressed in tech speak. I feel like maybe I was interpreting the slight down-tuning as flutter? I then mixed some things that were very familiar and it sounded "fine" (I'm being carefully optimistic). I don't really know what to think...

I'm done for tonight. I'm going to start with the mixing tomorrow, and try and forget about this whole thing :). Again, thanks again everybody... you guys helped out a bunch!
 
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