First time Recording help (guitar tone)

[Hexadecimal]

Greetings everyone, I'm new to the forums! My name is Ali.

I'm mainly a guitar player but I'm pretty much mostly beginner at this whole audio production thing.

I currently own...

Mac Mini (with a mother load of ram)
Logic Pro
Pair of BX8a Monitors
Apogee Ensemble (yes I know it's over the top for a beginner interface, but I have plans for it in the future)
Axe FX Ultra
Monster power conditioner
Audio Technica ath-m50 Headphones

Plugs/ vst-
Superior Drums, metal machine
Omnisphere
Trilian
Couple of the Redwirez Impulse Cabs

and an Ibanez 2228 - 8 string guitar.

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I'm currently I'm working on building my first album production with the help of my keyboard player. It's taken us a considerable amount of time to lay everything into place by ourselves, but with the help of research and self teaching... the mix does sound promising.


My fear is that I'm currently laying down the guitar tracks for our songs, but I feel that It's not connecting with the mix. The tone out of my Axe Fx sound amazing by itself but Just not connecting with the whole mix in general. Is this something normal when laying down guitar tracks? Granted there is no processing, eq, compressing done with any of the tracks at the moment, I'm afraid to lay down the tracks (aprox 45. mins of crazy technical metal) just to find out that I may have to redo them in the long run you know?


I apologize if this is in the wrong section, since this is kind of a duel topic kind of thing. Thank you for your time and have an awesome thanksgiving week.

 

[mjbphotos]

This can often be the case when all the instrument sounds are created 'in the box' via direct ins and software. A good engineer can use compression, EQ and reverb modestly to bring it all together.

 

[Pahtcub]

If it's your first time recording guitars then don't expect miracles, it gets better with time, you will learn tricks that work with your set up after a while of using it but I wouldn't expect your first time ever recording to be awesome reguardless and especially if it's all ITB. Trust me I can barely listen to recordings I did just 2 years ago let alone my first recordings ever! barf

 

[RAMI]

I can barely listen to recordings I did just 2 years ago

2 years? You're lucky. I have a CD coming out that I already hate.

I've recorded 2 new songs since I finished the CD, and now I want to replace the 2 worst songs on the CD with the 2 new ones. Once I do that, I'll probably want to replace the next 2. I should probably just put this thing out and move on or else I'll never release it.

 

[Greg_L]

You're off to a good start with the Axe FX. I've never used one, but I've heard them and they can sound great. You'll have better quick results with that than you would learning how to mic an amp successfully.

If the mix isn't gelling together, you gotta find out why. Maybe your tone is no good. What sounds good on it's own doesn't always just plop into a mix perfectly. With real guitar amps, often times recording with less gain than you'd use live makes the guitars sound better. Maybe you need to do that with the Axe FX. Maybe the rest of the mix is shit and the pristine tone you get from the Axe FX magnifies the mixes shortcomings. The rest is just general mixing techniques that you have to figure out on your own. Things like panning, EQ, processing, artificial space like reverb and delay - those are the tools you use to make a mix come together.

 

[Dogbreath]

I should probably just put this thing out and move on or else I'll never release it.

and that's actually GOLD right thar.

We can mix and mix and then listen to it in a couple weeks, months etc...and aack. But the best thing you can do is do your best and move on. You'll learn as ya go and the future ones will be better.

HexaDude...
is it the tone/sounds that aren't connecting with the tune or is it more of the guitar parts themselves?

 

[Hexadecimal]

Thanks for the replies everyone, and thank you for your interest.


There could be a number of things which I feel could be the issue.

1- (since most of the instruments are midi -> vst) It's super perfect and accurate vs my playing feels more human. Not that my playing is horribly sloppy. It's just the little things like my finger scrapes, or maybe even being just a micro second off. I know it's all rock n roll and should embrace the nastiness, but in this case the two could be a slight issue.

2- Guitar Tone wise, is what I feel may be the biggest culprit. Though the mids aren't scooped, tone frizzy or boomy, nor do I have the gain extremely high. It still for the sake of it not meshing in well. When Isolating the guitars, everything else feels like it has potential of being a real nice mix.

3- Listening to some of our influences mixes (Dream Theater which is the closest goal I guess) It just sounds so full and nice. Mines sounds pretty thin. I'd like to mention that I'm double tracking. I tried Quad but it was a little too much.

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I know where you're all coming from. I'd like to at least say I tried my best with the resources and knowledge I had at the moment to put the best mix I could. Me being a professional graphic designer, my art work is nothing like how it was 2 years ago. I guess over the next couple days, I'll try my best to whip a short section of one of the songs for critiques.


As for the Axe FX, yeah It's an amazing tool. I've owned several tube amps and ended up getting rid of them along with my pedal board. Sounds like the real thing. Super flexible too.

 

[Greg_L]

It's nice to have goals, but comparing your first mix ever to something like Dream Theater is a bit lofty. For one, they're not using a bunch of VST's. They use as many real instruments as possible and might supplement with some very high end VST's in the studio. Also, they're a professional band in a professional studio with a professional budget. You can't compete. Double track, quad track, hexatrack, whatever. Their guitar tracks sound great because they're great players using great guitars through great amps in great rooms with great mics and great pre-amps into great consoles, etc. You're not gonna sound the same using a bunch of fake stuff mixing on a laptop while monitoring through headphones. Apples and oranges.