T
triquee
Guest
Of the two, I liked the pop kit a lot better. I don't know if there is an even better option than the pop kit, but it is the more organic sounding of the two choices here.
Of the two, I liked the pop kit a lot better. I don't know if there is an even better option than the pop kit, but it is the more organic sounding of the two choices here.
dobro
Well-known member
Gzero - I think you're on the right track with the most recent drums, but maybe they could still be simpler, less busy - the guitar provides all the busyness the song needs.
Ninja_Drummer
New member
The chorus drum pattern is completely fine. It really drives the rhythm and gives the tune a foot tapper. But the verses could use a bit more simplicity I agree. Think "Home" by Philips Philips here. Just a straight 8 pattern for most of the song. While I'm not saying that you shouldn't change the rhythm during the verses, it definitely shouldn't be distracting from the melody. As far as folk and alternative music goes, the drums really just help to put emphasis on the bass patterns on downbeats and the sort. There really isn't too much spark, if you do, then it starts sounding like a pop song.
But don't worry, simplicity is as much of a problem for real drummers as it is for non-drummers with samples. Us drummers sometimes get very bored playing the same thing over and over or just want a little bit of attention sitting back there in the dark corner
But don't worry, simplicity is as much of a problem for real drummers as it is for non-drummers with samples. Us drummers sometimes get very bored playing the same thing over and over or just want a little bit of attention sitting back there in the dark corner
dobro
Well-known member
Us drummers sometimes get very bored playing the same thing over and over or just want a little bit of attention sitting back there in the dark corner
Bingo. And you've put your finger on something important two ways - if you're assembling music for either recording or live, it's hard to keep the talent interested sometimes. One time, I said to the guy doing drums for a collaboration 'I don't want cymbals on this' and he's going 'it *has* to have cymbals - it's drums' and I'm going 'no cymbals' and in the end he did it with minimum cymbal hits and it sounded good and the only way it might have sounded better was with no cymbals. But he was doing drums and I wasn't paying. So it had cymbals. It was the only way to keep him interested.
The other thing is interesting: I've pretty much stopped collaborating for variations on the the problem I outlined above, and I've started doing my own bass and percussion and keyboards. I can play in tune and in time, but I'm not good at that stuff, I have no talent. But here's the advantage: it's simple. The bass and percussion and keyboard parts I do fit really easily into the arrangement because they're so simple. It's effective.
And I don't get bored.
guitar zero
c = b#
Great feedback from all of you guys. Thank you. I'll simplify even more, and try out some different kits.
R
Rod Norman
New member
Fake drums?
First, great song, great vocals. When backing a great vocalist, the drummer's job is to support the song. Drop the fancy half time parts and the hurky jerky intro for the drums. Bring in the straight beat and stay with it. Your song will sound a lot more "pop" and a lot less "amateur". Always support the song. Great drummers know that nothing is more important than the song. They are willing to disappear in the mix rather than interfere. Give it a try and see if you don't like it better.
First, great song, great vocals. When backing a great vocalist, the drummer's job is to support the song. Drop the fancy half time parts and the hurky jerky intro for the drums. Bring in the straight beat and stay with it. Your song will sound a lot more "pop" and a lot less "amateur". Always support the song. Great drummers know that nothing is more important than the song. They are willing to disappear in the mix rather than interfere. Give it a try and see if you don't like it better.
rayc
retroreprobate
A terrific recording. The thing that stuck out re drums for me were the BIG cymbal smashes.
They didn't sound right in terms of level of something.
talented folk.
They didn't sound right in terms of level of something.
talented folk.
guitar zero
c = b#
Thanks. Re-did the drums completely. New version below.
Thanks Ray. I ditched the cymbal hits for the most part. Appreciate the feedback, as always.
So here's the new version. Nothing fancy, just mostly kick and snare. Added a shaker and tambourine to the second chorus just to drive it more. Different kit. Not sure about the snare? I also worked on the vocals after Chili pointed out how mid-rangey they were. Anyway, here is the new mix. This board has been a big help. Keep up the honesty.
New drum mix:
RogerL.
New member
IMHO . . . sounds fine but the pattern is close to aweful . . . K.I.S.S is needed and the brushes would be great
S
smili
New member
Sound's good to me. The only thing I would mention is the presence on the drums stands out a bit - mainly on the cymbal sparkly parts - but I probably wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't asked me to focus on the drums. But I think it sounds good - I wouldn't have thought anything about it being programmed if you hadn't mentioned it. nice tune.
It probably wouldn't be hard to have a live drummer put a track on it for comparison if you'd want to do that just to see the difference in vibe it gives you. It might be different - but you might like this better.
It probably wouldn't be hard to have a live drummer put a track on it for comparison if you'd want to do that just to see the difference in vibe it gives you. It might be different - but you might like this better.
guitar zero
c = b#
I tried brushes in an earlier version. Didn't work out too well. It's VERY hard to program brushes to sound right. About the pattern in this one, can't think of a way to make it any simpler. Everyone keeps telling me simple pattern. This is about as simple as I can think of.
Yes, I'd love to hear what a real drummer would do with this, but we don't have one. The cymbal sparkly parts, not sure what you mean. There's only two cymbal crashes in the whole song along with the hats. The rest of the high parts are shaker and tambourine. is that what your talking about? Anyway, thanks for taking a listen.
CrowsofFritz
Flamingo!
Heard your latest mix. Vocals sound much better! Much more natural.
guitar zero
c = b#
OK, Good. Now it's just the drums that are making me pull my hair out. Oh, wait... I don't have any. Thanks
S
smili
New member
I see some others are talking about a different version - I was listening to the version in your first post. I like the heavy thick beefy thumpy nature of the drums. The trills on the cymbal stand out to me a bit in various places - that's what I was referring to - they contrast with the mellowness of the rest of the kit. But like I said it sounds good - could be totally artistic direction/choice. I'm not saying they were distracting, but I "think" they jumped out at me a bit - but it could've been because I was focusing on the drums.
edit: I just went back and found the link to the most recent mix - I like the new mix in every way better. You did something to clear out the vocal transparency - I like it much better. I didn't say anything the first time - but I did feel the original vocals sounded a bit thick - but you may have wanted it that way - artistic choice thing. I like this vocal mix better. The drums on the new version fade back into a supporting role much better for the song - they don't distract me at all. Your mix is nice and open. I like. Your recording of the other instruments/performances sound very good.
If you're still tinkering with the mix the one thing I'd recommend is maybe try a version of the mix to see if you can make the vocal even more transparent. My ears aren't well enough trained to explain it, but there's a bit of thickness (maybe breathiness/maybe closeness/proximity?) that would be nice if could be reduced even further - but again - it's artistic choices at this point - it sounds very good as is.
edit: I listened one more time to the vocal - I think what I might be trying to convey is the music and singer sound like they're in different places - not in the same place at the same time. Like the singer is right next to me singing in my ear - I can hear so much of the little vocal nuance - and the acoustic instruments are in a different sonic space. Anyhow, I'm just trying to convey what I think I hear - I really like it as is though. I really like the song.
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guitar zero
c = b#
OK, now I know why you thought it was too busy. I actually know what you're saying about the vocal. It's very breathy. It might sound better without being so. I'll check it out. Thanks again for the feedback.
G
garykahn
New member
If I could find a drummer that wouldn't speed up or slow down, had a great personality and was a great showman, I'd get rid of my Roland DR-880 Rhythm machine. But my DR is always spot on and I can program it to behave like a real drummer. I can go either way.
CrowsofFritz
Flamingo!
Jeez, guitar zero. You're really taking these critiques like they're no problem. Perhaps the beat was a bit strange in the first mix, but remember, there is no pleasing everyone.
guitar zero
c = b#
Honestly, I'd take an obnoxious, fat, ugly drummer right now (Any volunteers?).
Well, I think the critiques have generally led me in the right direction, and I like the last simple drum mix better. Remember, I've never done drums before, so I expected some negative feedback. Is that what you mean? Not sure what you're saying.
CrowsofFritz
Flamingo!
Sure, if you think you're moving in the right direction then that is great!
Like the old cliche goes, take what one says with a grain of salt. But if you have too many grains of salt, your food will taste worse than anchovies!
One guy mentioned K.I.S.S. and brushes. I can't believe how subjective that is. I'm glad you did not go that path.
Like the old cliche goes, take what one says with a grain of salt. But if you have too many grains of salt, your food will taste worse than anchovies!
One guy mentioned K.I.S.S. and brushes. I can't believe how subjective that is. I'm glad you did not go that path.
J
Johnny Darkly
New member
As a drummer, it sounded fine. Fine as in very good. This was done really well.
The thing about fake drums is: if you use them knowing they're fake (knowing their limitations), It'll work out. If you use fake drums and try to make them sound like someone's really there as another member of the band, it'll sound fake.
Look at Phil Collins - In the Air Tonight. Phil used the electric track knowing what it was, but added acoustics at the end, because thats what was needed.
Your song sounds fine because the drums arent the focus, and it creates a consistent reliable player. If in ever the drums were the focus (such as the end of "In the Air Tonight") then care needs to be taken to address that, by using acoustics, ...or at least REALLY well done samples. Some electric kits have single samples that take a Gigabyte a piece. Talk about detail.
Hope that helped.
You're stuff sounds great with fake drums. Think Dido
The thing about fake drums is: if you use them knowing they're fake (knowing their limitations), It'll work out. If you use fake drums and try to make them sound like someone's really there as another member of the band, it'll sound fake.
Look at Phil Collins - In the Air Tonight. Phil used the electric track knowing what it was, but added acoustics at the end, because thats what was needed.
Your song sounds fine because the drums arent the focus, and it creates a consistent reliable player. If in ever the drums were the focus (such as the end of "In the Air Tonight") then care needs to be taken to address that, by using acoustics, ...or at least REALLY well done samples. Some electric kits have single samples that take a Gigabyte a piece. Talk about detail.
Hope that helped.
You're stuff sounds great with fake drums. Think Dido