Ever made a mix that sounded so good you thought it didnt need to be mastered?

[Blue Bear Sound]

Roll your 'e' eyes all you want the subtext of your post was that his statements were disqualified because of the gear he listed.

The reason that is so is because you have to question someone's skills who claims (without actually posting anything) to make "pro-level" mixes and makes grandiose statements regarding sound quality yet isn't discerning enough to use a more respectable reverb unit.

 

[twonky]

Is that so hard to fathom?

That someone w/ a natural affinity for recording and a great pair of ears could not use shitty gear and trascend its limitations?

I mean its been hard work for me and some of my consumer grade crap gear has not helped, but I fucking worked at it for years and now that sort of stuff is not an issue. Everything that sounds bad in my recordings can be traced directly to me not paying enough attention or working hard enough to get the sound right in the first place.

This is the same argument I use w/ my bucketheaded engineer friends that swear analog is better than digital because its....analog.

Bullshit, if you suck you can make any media sound bad and vice versa.

 

[twonky]

I understand what you are saying BlueBear, I think I am now arguing past that point.

I am now on the 'gear does not make the man' soapbox.

No hard feelings

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Twonky.... I'm currently using a Mackie 8-buss too... (although an upgrade to a Sony DMXR100 is in the works!) - and while it is no Amek I definitely still can make it work for me...

But there still is a minimum level of quality from which you can work miracles and below that it doesn't matter how good your ears are... no amount of skills will make a bad-sounding reverb better... and if someone's ears aren't critical enough to be able to discern a difference, then you really have to question the credibility.

That really was my only point! (because I also lean towards the "worry more about skills than gear" ethic -- but there does come a point where bad gear is simply bad gear!)

 

[kylen]

Ever made a mix that sounded so good you thought it didnt need to be mastered?

illacov,
You wanted some more feedback to your original question. For me the answer has always been no. I can get anywhere in the 60%-85% range depending on the equipment and room. Ha Ha, pretty bad, eh ?

My trick is I love to work on full mixes and bring the magic out thru rebalancing. Why - you might ask ? It's a skill I want to develop further because I actually enjoy 'live to 2 track' recording as opposed to layering and layering. I do both but on the live to 2 track there is no mix to go back to and tweak, it's already happened and permanent ! Also there are tons of materials that are mixed but the individual tracks or safety copies (if there were any) no longer exist. Re-balancing 2 track mixes is very cool for me, some would call it mastering, pre-mastering, post production...whatever you call it I like it !

But I'm not an all or nothing guy either, meaning that just because I prefer to re-balance doesn't mean I don't appreciate getting the best mix possible, sending material to ME's, using equipment you have to get the best sound possible, scouting for potential weaknesses in the signal chain and upgrading if necessary, following and learning common engineering skills.

All of that is cool, but I experiment too. And presently no ME is going to get a hold of my stuff, I'm working with it myself and learning and listening and getting feedback. This is fun for me - my own personal journey. I take input - that's why I love all the forums I'm on - I also have to make my own decisions based on things I can figure out or learn or ask about. I'm not here to ask permission to do anything - I experiment all the time, sometimes they don't work very well, sometimes gold !

Later if and when I go into semi-commercial or full production then I'm sure I'll have a different process. Right now I have a non-musical day gig and do audio nights and weekends along with night school.

So anyway, I thought you might like to read long posts and here's my stab at it...you brought in a little sexual innuendo so try this on, maybe you'll appreciate this.

My journey thru audio is a bit like the response the under-endowed man gives to the beatutiful 'lady of the evening' when asked "Just who do you intend to please with that", and the gentleman replies "Why, myself of course!".

Ha Ha ! Pleasing myself with compressors, limiters, EQs and fun music !

Sounds from the Garage ! Actually I'm not in the garage - I'm in a 2nd floor rec room and I use the slang term 'garage' meaning DIY, home recorder, non-pro, etc. Actually for me the garage is the truest of all sound - unencumbered by commercialism, breathing originality much of which the world will never know. I imagine of all the great music created and produced in the hundreds of thousands of garages across America the music world, or you and I, are aware of just a small percentage - pity !

Keep on Rockin in the Free World ! (quote from a notable garage musician)

kylen

 

[twonky]

Like I said Bear, I hear you, and agree. The shitty reverb point is a good example (I actually have a preset called "shittyreverb" on my alesis Quadrverb, it sucks, come to think of it the Quadraverb sucks too...).

Its bad sounding no matter who uses it, lets just hope that this "genius" can do something musical and compelling w/ it.

I was just listening to Dose by The Latin Playboys. For those of you who dont know this is a band w/ Tchad Blake, Mitchell Froome and two of the blokes for Los Lobos. This record is full of weird broken gear and cheap verbs and bad sounding compressors and it is one of the most brilliant creative records I have heard in a long time.

I just want to make sure that any one on this board who may less experience than me and is feeling hindered by the crappy gear they have. That they strive to get better gear (God knows I practically get a boner when I am in the same room w/ a Distressor) but dont let the lack of it keep them from working really hard w/ wht they have. They can acheive very musical/beautiful results.

 

[faderbug]

I imagine of all the great music created and produced in the hundreds of thousands of garages across America the music world, or you and I, are aware of just a small percentage - pity !
kylen

there are garages outside of the us as well.

 

[Outlaws]

(God knows I practically get a boner when I am in the same room w/ a Distressor)

A distressor?!?!?!?!!?!? What kind? You are on the same boat as illacov, not even know what the exact gear is (8 channel or something....)


For all you know that distressor is made by Nady or Rogue or Behringer......

Man, I bet if you went to a bar you would go home with the first woman who made eye contact with you...........then in the morning you'd be all, "Hey, when did you grow a dick?!"

 

[twonky]

Uuuhh, Outlaws, is there more than one kind of Distressor as in the Emperical Labs?

Oh yeah maybe you're right, I was talking about the Behringer Distressor!

School me Braniac.

Twonky

 

[mallcore pop]

Re: Im sensing an overflow of rancid semen in this particular post

Do you guys actually record or just post on these forums in between masturbating??

Sometimes I don't stop masturbating to post.

I'm doing it right now!

 

[kylen]

...there are garages outside of the us as well.

There sure are ! Everywhere in the world. I drove across the United States and saw thousands of towns - zillions of houses. I wondered what kind of music scenes and micrcosms were happering in and around each neighborhood. It boggles the mind !

wetteke - you live in Europe. It's kind of amazing that I'm sitting here talking to you, I hardly know you except thru a few posts. It's a real cool thing to be able to reach outside of your neighborhood, community, country and talk with folks with the same interests !

I'm an American and have lived here all my life so my experiences will be based on that. The cool thing about the forums is that folks from totally different backgrounds can share ideas and experiences.

When you mention 'garages outside of the us' give me a little of your experience too ! What do you think, etc ! Are you a garage musician or a full-time pro - what are you thinking ?

kylen

 

[Outlaws]

School me Braniac.

Twonky

Okay I will.

You are soooooo up on your gear use I just figure I will toss this out there......

Twonky's Stupid Question

I bet you remember this one huh..........anyone with half a brain knows that are are no settings that you use to make something sound right. That post was another case of....."look at me, I get to use an exspensive piece of gear....giggle giggle"

I think BlueBears answer best summed up the answer to your question.

 

[lost studios]

Now I'm dying to hear Illacov's golden mix!!! Are you going to post it? If you can get it off of your CD-RW..... I'd be more than happy to let you upload it to my ftp server for everyone to enjoy.

Think it will ever get any radio play?? I hope so, cause I'm sure interested in hearing what an unmastered track sounds like through my mono alarmclock radio...

 

[twonky]

Outlaws,

Wow, I feel like I am in court!

I am obviously too stupid to understand how badly you have burned me for asking a question about a piece of gear I hadnt used before.

Other than knowing the brand name of a piece of gear I would like to own, at what point did I profess to being an expert in anything?

I am quite certain that no one on this board is jealous because I got to BORROW a nice compressor. giggle giggle...

What the fuck is your point?


xoxo
Twonky

 

[chessrock]

The Twonk ! ! ! !


T -- W -- O -- N -- K -- Y

 

[faderbug]

There sure are ! Everywhere in the world. I drove across the United States and saw thousands of towns - zillions of houses. I wondered what kind of music scenes and micrcosms were happering in and around each neighborhood. It boggles the mind !

wetteke - you live in Europe. It's kind of amazing that I'm sitting here talking to you, I hardly know you except thru a few posts. It's a real cool thing to be able to reach outside of your neighborhood, community, country and talk with folks with the same interests !

I'm an American and have lived here all my life so my experiences will be based on that. The cool thing about the forums is that folks from totally different backgrounds can share ideas and experiences.

When you mention 'garages outside of the us' give me a little of your experience too ! What do you think, etc ! Are you a garage musician or a full-time pro - what are you thinking ?

kylen

with my little remark about there being garages over here too (i rent one for our bikes!) i wanted to express (one or two esses?) that i share the same feelings about how great it is that there are people making music without making any money off it. just creating, jamming, recording... with as sole purpose ENJOYING IT. (and i am one of them - by no means a pro)

i don't think the us and europe (asia - africa - the ME - oz - the world) are all that different when it comes to that - in my eyes there's just one music community!

well ... maybe i was a bit pissed off because you only mentioned the us. but then again ... that IS where you live.

 

[freeztar]

Back to the original question...

Geez...some of you are gluttons for arguement! I think Illacov has a point (or quite a few). Chessrock summed it up nicely by saying that sometimes you get lucky. It still doesn't negate the fact that ME's have both good equipment and good ears. Your one mix might sound golden, but try to get it to 'fit' on an album with a bunch of other mixes, no easy task. Sure, I've made mixes that I thought were good enough to stand alone, but they sound quirky elsewhere (car, radio, etc.) and other people might think that it sucks. Bottom line: Millions can listen to a Brittany Spears album and say "wow, what a good mix" and others could say it sounds like a burnt waffle. Music , as an art, is subjective. Mixing as a science, is still subjective. If it sounds good to you, then you don't need to master. If you want to commercially produce 1000's of albums, well, it's subjective.

 

[regebro]

Re: confused?

illacov, when i compare your first with your last post i feel you are loosing consistency.

That is consistent with standard troll behaviour.

Don't feed the trolls.

 

[kylen]

i don't think the us and europe (asia - africa - the ME - oz - the world) are all that different when it comes to that - in my eyes there's just one music community!

 

[VSpaceBoy]

Just to buzz in now...

I have to agree that it would subjective, but there are standards of which be compared.

Example: I taught a friend of mine how to play guitar. He practices his ass off every day. On the phone he tells me how he's the new guitar slinger of our age. How he can keep up with anything he listens to on the radio and how he's sorry but "the student has passed the teacher". I go to his house and we jam. Within 5 minutes, after he stops starring at me play, he says "Yup, I have some more practicing to do!". What he didn't notice from his own playing, is that its all the little things. The things that you learn from experience, practice, and failure. I believe that <<completely a shot in the dark>> if he posted his song, plenty of ppl here could improve on it tremendously.

To ellaborate a little more to what I think Blue Bear said first is the gear clue.
If I played a pro basketball player, I would expect he wouldn't bring flip flops to play in.
If I had to audition for a lead guitar spot in a band, against someone else at the same time.. I came with my PRS and an Orange amp, then saw him whip out his Fender Squire with a Crate amp.. I would then go get a beer and kick back.

Not that descriminating is the right thing to do, but come on! Is it POSSIBLE that illacov nailed it.. Yes. But I don't play the lottery. and If I did though.. I wouldn't buy my ticket from a sales professional selling out of the trunk of his car claiming to have "tickets as good as the real stores"

Space