Ever a reason to use 3-pin out?

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Titanship

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Since pre-amps provide a 1/4 inch, and a 3-pin connection out, is there ever a reason to use the 3-pin?

I thought common knowledge says "use only the 1/4 inch out."

titan
 
Titanship said:
Since pre-amps provide a 1/4 inch, and a 3-pin connection out, is there ever a reason to use the 3-pin?

I thought common knowledge says "use only the 1/4 inch out."

titan
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the 3 pin, is balanced-outs, less chance of interference/noise (especially with longer runs, or your near some transmitting towers)
Use balanced when you can.
 
1/4" can also be balanced.

What output you use really just depends on what you are connecting to. Check you manual to see if there is any difference between the 1/4 and XLR outputs so you know when to use what and why.
 
I have the option of going to the back of the recorder, 3-pin, or 1/4 inch in front.

I'm using the M-audio dpm3.

titan
 
It's called "XLR" not "3 Pin". Like I said read your manuals and see what the differences are. Is the 1/4" balanced or unbalanced? Line level or high impedance?

There are lots of different ways of using the same types of connectors. Chances are XLR is your best bet.
 
IIRC XLR outputs are usually +4 dBU, whilst 1/4" are usually -10 dBV. So which pair you use will depend on the impedence of the connections at the other end.
 
Mark7,
So, you're saying I need to "match" them, yes? When you say "at the other end", you mean at the board input?

titan
 
I'm a little confused as the DMP3 doesn't have XLR Outputs, only 1/4" phone jacks. According to the manual these have an impedence of 500 ohms (Zs if you're American). How this relates to the whole -10/+4 dB thing I have no idea. You might like to download the DMP3 manual from http://www.m-audio.com
 
By the way, I got Input and Output levels confused with Impedence (which is a circuit's resistance to AC). The terms -10dBvs (deciBel volts) and +4dBus (deciBels unweighted) refers to the maximum voltage an Input or Output can generate or absorb. So if your outputs on the DMP3 are -10dBvs then it's best to plug them into whatever there is at the other end that absorbs (I have the weird feeling I'm not saying this right) -10dBvs.

Damn it, where's Valeriani when you need him :mad:
 
Mark7 said:
IIRC XLR outputs are usually +4 dBU, whilst 1/4" are usually -10 dBV. So which pair you use will depend on the impedence of the connections at the other end.
Click to expand...

That's usually true but only if the 1/4 is unbalanced. Even then different manufacturers will throw weird things at you like XLR unbalanced stereo or blanced 1/4" at -10dbu.

Titan- You are correct in that you want to match the inputs and outputs between linked gear.
 
Mark7 said:
I'm a little confused as the DMP3 doesn't have XLR Outputs, only 1/4" phone jacks. According to the manual these have an impedence of 500 ohms (Zs if you're American). How this relates to the whole -10/+4 dB thing I have no idea. You might like to download the DMP3 manual from http://www.m-audio.com
Click to expand...

Mark, How embarrassing! You see, I don't have the DMP3 yet, it's in the mail. I just ASSUMED it had XLR outputs, like my TubeMP had.

Thanks much!

titan
 
Fraid not. But if it's anything like my Audio Buddy the Outputs can be used as either balanced or unbalanced. To use them balanced you just need a lead with a stereo (TRS) 1/4" jack at one end and an XLR or another Stereo 1/4" jack at the other (assuming you have balanced 1/4" inputs on your desk. If not find one with an XLR on the other end).
 
The DMP3's outputs are 1/4" balanced, TRS jacks, and they are +4dBu. You can send that output to any 1/4" or XLR input that is compatible with +4. Balanced signals can be sent either by TRS or XLR connectors, and the only difference is how easy it is for them to be pulled out or fall out. If your runs of cable are short, say 20' or less, it's almost irrelevent. There is a very slight loss of signal gain when using unbalanced connections, which isn't usually enough to be significant. I think it's about 3db.-Richie
 
I thought that unbalanced = -10 dbv and balanced = +4 dbu
So are you guys saying that as rare as it might be you can have +4 dbu on an unblanced signal and -10dbv on a balanced signal?
 
Correct. And it's not that rare at all. My Avalon has unbalanced +4 XLR outs, as well as balanced outs, and my Joemeek has balanced and unbalanced 1/4" trs outs, both +4.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
Correct. And it's not that rare at all. My Avalon has unbalanced +4 XLR outs, as well as balanced outs, and my Joemeek has balanced and unbalanced 1/4" trs outs, both +4.-Richie
Click to expand...
If you don't mind me adding to your point just a bit, Richie, the difference between the differential/single-ended implementations of +4dBu systems is the available headroom. Typically, these amount to the difference of a clip point of +22dBu (single-ended) and +28dBu (differential).

Also, a finer point (FWIW): balanced systems may also be single-ended. What we casually refer to as "balanced" we ASSUME that it is also differential (not necessarily). I think Mackie--in an effort to save costs--was the first to contribute to this confusion for the mass market: many/all/some of the Mackie mixers that have balanced inputs/outputs are, in fact, single-ended-balanced not differentially-balanced...

More useless nerdy information from Austin,
McQ
 
McQ said:
Also, a finer point (FWIW): balanced systems may also be single-ended. What we casually refer to as "balanced" we ASSUME that it is also differential (not necessarily). I think Mackie--in an effort to save costs--was the first to contribute to this confusion for the mass market: many/all/some of the Mackie mixers that have balanced inputs/outputs are, in fact, single-ended-balanced not differentially-balanced...

More useless nerdy information from Austin,
McQ
Click to expand...

Is that the same thing as what Soundcraft calls 'ground compensated' balanced outputs?
 
TexRoadkill said:
Is that the same thing as what Soundcraft calls 'ground compensated' balanced outputs?
Click to expand...
Hey Tex!

I've been trying to find out the answer to this, but their docs are unwieldy and unclear on this point. Probably so, but at this point I don't know for sure...

Regards,
McQ
 
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