Ergonomic Upgrade

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SubYeoman

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My very modest "home studio" which I use to create simple songs by myself consists of only a computer running reaper and a DigiTech RP255 guitar pedal connected by USB cable. Recording songs is only a hobby and my setup is fine with me audio quality-wise, but I'm hoping to add a little ease of use without spending too much money.

Right now the RP255 is my computer's sound card and I hear everything through the headphone jack, including the windows startup jingle. When I want to switch back and forth between guitar(s)/bass/edrums, I just pull the 1/4in jack out of the back of the pedal and connect the other one. This is kind of a pain when the pedal is on the floor, and makes it really akward to use the pedal if it's on the desk.

Ergonomically, I think I would benefit from switching to a "real" PCI sound card or interface with a breakout box in the CD drive bay on the front of my computer for easy access. However, after searching it seems that the options for such a thing are usually really expenisive because the quality is way higher than what I would need. The E-MU1616 looks like it would fit the bill perfectly, but it is way out of my price range. Is there any economy PCI card with a breakout box available that just has 1 or 2 multi jacks and a MIDI input? Or maybe another option I haven't considered? Thanks for your help.
 
Why a PCI card instead of an external audio interface, like the Tascam US-800 which should do everything you need?
 
A USB interface is pretty much what the RP255 is. If all I was going to buy was another USB interface I would just keep using what I already have. I actually still have an old TASCAM US-122L lying around that I used to use, but the RP255 was so much more stable that I just started using that instead.

I want a PCI card because it would fill more of a traditional PC sound card role while providing an convenient plug on the front of my computer. Like I said, really more of an ergonomic upgrade than anything else. I'm not willing to pay hundreds of dollars for it though... I was hoping there was a cheaper option.
 
If you REALLY want a PCI interface, your best bet is to go to e-bay and get a used MOTU 2408
 
technically im with mjb on this one a usb interface would mean you could plug everything in at once and still have the sound come out of it even set up mulitple monitors and such so you can still use computer speaker and monitors if thats what you want to do. For the 100 bucks a us=800 is goin for online these days its a steal and its alot different then using a guitar pedal as an interface. more options of routing and setting up tracks stuff like that.
 
How much of a difference in latency would there be between a pci/breakout interface like the Gina3G and a USB interface like the Tascam US-800? That was another reason I wanted to get a PCI card. True, the US-800 would fit the bill for desktop convenience, and it appears to be a solid, inexpensive option but I'm wary of Tascam products because when I was using that US-122L I got horrible latency and it was almost impossible to monitor while recording. I understand improvements would be apparent in a newer, higher quality interface though.

I am also shying away from Tascam products because the I had a really hard time with the drivers on my 122L, especially in regards to getting it to work as my PC sound card. Originally I was using the 122L as my interface and only plugging my DigiTech guitar pedal in via USB to use the effects editing software, but my computer had such an easy time recognizing the pedal and it worked so much smoother than the 122L that I just started using it exclusively.
 
So I bid a used Gina3G up to about $100 on Ebay, but didn't win the auction so now I'm thinking more seriously about that Tascam US-800. I'm still really hesitant to buy it for the reasons stated above, but I'm hoping someone can ease my mind. Everyone seems to be reccomending it so I guess it can't be that bad. I searched the forums for some info on the pros and cons of PCI interfaces vs. USB and from what I can tell the real benefit comes when recording lots of tracks at once. I only record one track at a time, so maybe USB is a better option for me anyway. Above one guy talked about the US-800 being better because of more options of routing and setting up tracks... what is that about? What could I do with it that I couldn't do with my pedal as my interface?
 
Also, mjbphotos I noticed you said this in jimmys69's thread:

SubYeoman said:
I noticed a few people on amazon saying that when they used it as their principal sound card, (for internet, WMP, etc) that the files all stayed in memory/use, hogging up the system's resources.
Click to expand...

I will be using it as my principal sound card... will this really happen? Is it bad enough that I should avoid it?
 
Could someone please throw me a bone here?!

I just want to know:
1. What tangible advantages will I get from using an actual USB interface like the Tascam US800 over my digitech guitar pedal?
2. If I could find a cheap used PCI card interface like the Gina3G for the same price as the US800 would it make more sense for my modest needs?
3. I want to use the interface as my PC's main sound card... anything specific I should consider/any type to avoid? (I've had problems in the past making a Tascam US122L perform that function correctly).

My eternal gratitude to anyone who could help me spend my money more wisely than I'm about to.
 
You haven't told us what DAW or O/S you are using, but the advantage of a true audio interface (or high-quality PCI card designed for computer recording) are the higher quality a-to-d converters.
If you can get a PCI card that has 6 mic preamps, digital in, MIDI in, direct in for a guitar, and monitor and dual headphone outputs, all for $99, go for it!
I think the only issue with using the Tascam as your main sound card, is the sound files stay in memory (that's what others have said in Amazon reviews). I don't know, myself if this is true, or only true for certain O/S. Easy enough to reboot the computer before starting a recording session and this should delete all those files.
 
Thank you for responding. I am using Reaper on a older PC running Windows XP. I'm really trying to educate myself on the benefits and drawbacks of PCI vs. USB, but the fact that one goes for $100 and the other is $500 (new) is keeping me confused. On the surface the Tascam seems like it includes much more than the PCI options, but I've being tempted by the Gina3Ds and EMU 1820s I've found for about the same price used... since they were way more expensive when they were new, I feel like I'd get a better "deal" with those. My PC doesn't have a PCIe slot, so I thought catching some old stuff off someone who is upgrading might be the way to go. That probably speaks volumes about how little I really understand, but honestly I don't know that I'd ever use more than one in at a time, or 2 headphone jacks, etc., so the Tascam may be overkill for me.

I'm sorry for getting grumpy, but some of the auctions for the PCI stuff I am looking at is ending soon, and I'm afraid the $100 US800s will be out of stock soon. I really want to pull the trigger on this before it's too late but I also want to make sure I'm making the right decision. $100 probably isn't a lot to most people but this is probably the last piece of equipment I'll be able to afford for a long time.
 
And it will serve you for a long time. Right now you think you'll only need one input channel, but one day you'll want 2 (for a stereo guitar effect, for example), or to use 2 mics to record an acoustic. Then you'll meet a drummer, and want 6 inputs ....
 
You're right, its better to have more than you need than need more than you have. I play drums, and right now I only have a set of edrums, but one day I will have a mic'd acoustic set and I'll be glad I bought the US800. The US122 worked well with the exceptions I mentioned, and refusing to buy a Corvette because you had some problems with an El Camino seems silly. Thanks for all the help.
 
SubYeoman said:
You're right, its better to have more than you need than need more than you have. I play drums, and right now I only have a set of edrums, but one day I will have a mic'd acoustic set and I'll be glad I bought the US800. The US122 worked well with the exceptions I mentioned, and refusing to buy a Corvette because you had some problems with an El Camino seems silly. Thanks for all the help.
Click to expand...

That's friggen funny! My first car was a '72 El Camino. Went through two engines and three trannys in that bastard. I now have a '70 Stingray. Though I don't drive it like a teenager. Well......not as much. :)
 
SubYeoman said:
Could someone please throw me a bone here?!

I just want to know:
1. What tangible advantages will I get from using an actual USB interface like the Tascam US800 over my digitech guitar pedal?
2. If I could find a cheap used PCI card interface like the Gina3G for the same price as the US800 would it make more sense for my modest needs?
3. I want to use the interface as my PC's main sound card... anything specific I should consider/any type to avoid? (I've had problems in the past making a Tascam US122L perform that function correctly).
Click to expand...

Unfortunately you're asking questions for which specific answers are dependent on very narrow parameters specific to your system and your work flow. Sorting out any useful answer (for free) is a pretty thankless task. I did not do anything but glance at your 'politics' thread but it more or less makes my case. In these type of queries I tend to answer largely if I think a response might have general interest for additional individuals . .. or if there seems to be some chance that OP might actually interpret response with some degree awareness

1. you're the only person that can answer this . . . there probably is not a large enough pool of users, with your specific delimiting conditions (i.e. question 3) to realistically expect an answer based on experience rather then speculation. My gut instinct is that a the discontinued Tascam US800 would provide significant more flexibility, perhaps marginally better A/D then the digitech pedal. But your stress on cheapness sort of colors even that response. E.G. to access the increased flexibility would require investment in ancillary gear which you might initially be unwilling to pursue . . . in short term you might not find US800 to contribute a significant benefit to work flow. In Addition I can from experience echo your experience with Tascam drivers (to the point where I've refrained from buying any Tascam product since 2000). With next generation of incrementally improved A/D interfaces hitting the market (in the slightly upscale prosumer market see RME UFX) robust support for US800 is unlikely . . . suggesting from marginal evidence you've presented that the US800 could easily end up like the US122 a device for which, theoretically should meet all criteria of your main question.

2. You don't clear up whether you are still restricted to PCI or have PCIe slots available. If PCI only your options (at anything resembling price point, even used are limited). M-Audio Audiophile 2496 ($100 new ranges), EMU 0404 (NOS or used 90-140 range), Echo Gina 3G (or older used 24 or 20 bit options ) new or used in the $187-225 range. With patience & time deals (craigslist, etc.) with better prices are certainly possible. Neither the Audiophile nor 0404 have break out boxes challenging what seems to be the ergonomic aim. The break out box for the Gina would not be functional crammed into a Tower's front bay options.

Generally speaking any PCI card will potentially (based on specifics of individual system) have 'better' thru-put ('latency') then either USB or F/W options (new gen F/W might start to challenge that assumption, way to early to tell)

I have no experience with Audiophile but have a lot of acquaintances that have used them successfully, even happily for (in computer years) a long long time. the 0404 was a good inexpensive option, with awkward analog I/O but decision to recommend and/or install it in client friend systems was pretty much determined by how well I thought they'd get on with Emu's console & mixing software. With no particular reason to believe it my gut reaction is that you would not find this software to be ergonomically satisfying (though in several ways it would be a potential solution for your #3.

The Gina, in my experience, is also a good reliable card . . . even at it's age could provide acceptable service for years. (depending primarily on when OS & hardware changes no longer support it, & by then Linux options might be no brainers) It has six analog outs, with digital in you can expand system from 2 to 12.

3. This is always a bad idea. (using a production audio card for system sound solutions) there are undoubtedly plenty of people that do it (you've already experienced issues that you blame on the hardware) and if you have an easy or acceptable way of booting into a production state (vs consumer iTune state) it can be accomplished with relatively few challenges to production Unfortunately there is no cheap card that is inherently better at accomplishing this then any other . . . it's specific to your system and your needs
 
Thanks for your help oretez. I went ahead and ordered the $100 US800 so if I still have driver issues or other problems I should be able to return/resell it and try one of these other avenues. It doesn't necessarily have to go in my drive bay, anything other than something that was made to be on the floor and stepped on would probably be ergonomically superior LOL.

If for some reason the US800 doesn't work out, the Gina3G would probably my next choice (I don't have any PCIe slots, BTW). I had bid a used one up to $100 on ebay before it ended up selling for $109, so I may be able to snag one for that price somewhere down the road if needed. I got my fingers crossed that this newer, better Tascam unit with newer drivers will solve all my problems though... time will tell.

The thing about the sound card is that the computer I'm using for recording is being used exclusively for recording, nothing else (the only thing installed on it is windows XP and Reaper) and I shouldn't need sound for anything other than that. I don't have monitors or even computer speakers, everything is done through headphones connected directly to the interface. Given that, it seems to me that a seperate PC sound card would be pointless. The Digitech RP255 pedal did such a great job in the role of principal sound card that I hoped anything would do that good of a job... however, the US122L didn't. Really I could probably survive without any sound card at all, but it's nice to know you could listen to something from the PC if you needed to.
 
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