Erasing tape, advice please

[eeieeio]

Hi guys, it's been a while. I haven't had much time for recording as I've had some business opportunities I had to take advantage of. To refresh your memory I was new to recording and have a Tascam TSR-8. I have a couple of used reels that came with the recorder. What is the best way to erase these? Do I need to invest in one of those bulk erasers and if so what kind? or can I simply erase them on the TSR? Please tell me the best way.

Thanks!!!

 

[eeieeio]

20 views and no help? Dang

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Just arm all 8 tracks, turn all inputs to the deck down to zero, turn off the dbx and hit record.

Bulk erasers are cool if you have 8000 tapes to do all at once but if it's just a couple of tapes, I don't think the cost could be reasonably justified.

Cheers!

 

[Herm]

Why mess with it and put any time on your heads and transport. If there is stuff on their it will get erased when you record over it with new material.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Why mess with it and put any time on your heads and transport. If there is stuff on their it will get erased when you record over it with new material.

That's a valid point but sometimes when you're overdubbing, it can be disconcerting to hear the previous works pop through when you least expect it. Ruining the two reels past the heads only puts 66 minutes on the heads...not a major road trip.

Cheers!

 

[daddyK]

Is it ok to use old tape? I found when using some old tape which came with the machine that I experienced some drop-outs and loss of clarity! When using new tape the results were much better. Although this is only from my limited experience and I have some other old tapes I could make use of! what are peoples thoughts on this?

 

[Beck]

Probably the best way to erase them is to throw them away (keep the reels, just toss the tape). Buy some new Quantegy 456 and stay away from used tape with an unknown history.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Is it ok to use old tape? I found when using some old tape which came with the machine that I experienced some drop-outs and loss of clarity! When using new tape the results were much better. Although this is only from my limited experience and I have some other old tapes I could make use of! what are peoples thoughts on this?

If we are keeping this discussion to the two tapes in question here, you could try them out first in play to see if there's any drop outs on the material that's already been recorded on them. This will also give you the opportunity to check for sticky shed syndrome.

Listen for mechanical squeaks coming from the transport as this is an audible clue that the tape is giving off more friction then they should if they were healthy. Play the tapes with a freshly cleaned transport, all the heads, guides, lifters and tensioners should be swabbed down with alcohol and q-tips and after a couple of minutes of play, stop the tape and pull it away from the heads and make a quick visual check for any excessive oxide coming off the tape. Also look for tension rollers that are bobbing back and forth on a consistent basis as this too is a sign of stickiness.

If the tapes are suffering from Sticky shed, get them off the machine and either bake them or throw them out. If they don't, go ahead and try them out.

If the tapes have manufacturing dates on them, beware of anything older then 1995 if we're talking about Ampex 456 here. Are we talking about 456 in this case?

Follow this link for remidies to SSS;

http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

Cheers!

 

[EDAN]

Throw them away? Why would you toss them if they could be used again? I mean what's the worst that came happen?

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Throw them away? Why would you toss them if they could be used again? I mean what's the worst that came happen?

The worst that could happen is that you give yourself a very heavy duty clean up job to scrub all the crud that ends up on your heads and guides and pinch roller as well as dealing with the stress of thinking your machine has been destroyed if you don't know the signs to look for when dealing with SSS.

How many people have come here and thought their machine was dead or in serious trouble because of SSS? A lot!

Cheers!

 

[jpmorris]

Throw them away? Why would you toss them if they could be used again? I mean what's the worst that came happen?

In my opinion the worst thing is spreading your very best take of the song very thinly over the entire tape-bearing surface of the transport. This means: (A) you'll have lost the take, (B) you'll have to clean the entire transport and (C) the tape will have to go in the bin anyway.

The other possibility is that there are gouges in the tape, which will prevent you recording on a particular track. Sometimes for the entire length of the tape, sometimes only for a couple of seconds or so but usually in the most important place in the entire song. I've had this happen with a number of second-hand tapes, which is why I chuck them out nowadays.
If it were me, I'd spool the tape off into the bin and buy a pancake/hub of brand-new tape to put on the reel instead.

You might find this interesting:
http://www.broberg.pp.se/sd_ecstasy.htm

"No matter how many times we punched in on the only available track, the same three notes of Denny's guitar line would not be recorded properly. Roger made a spiffy little window edit (look it up), and we were able to punch in the missing notes. For a lark we sent the little piece of defective tape back to 3M. Months later, they sent us their report. The piece of tape had a tiny blister where the oxide had bubbled up from the backing. Inside this little blister was a drop of mustard. Some clot up in Minnesota had taken his sandwich into the room in the plant where the huge sheets of mylar were coated with oxide, taken a bite and squirted a tiny drop of mustard onto the mylar on the exact spot where we were going to put Denny's guitar part."

 

[EDAN]

If it were me, I'd spool the tape off into the bin and buy a pancake/hub of brand-new tape to put on the reel instead.

I've recorded on to used/erased tape for 20 years and sure a few times ran into a problem with dropouts and the like, I've also had these very same problems with brand new tape as have most people recording analog if they've done it long enough. Only ran into SSS twice in my life. Overal it's been well worth it for me.

 

[Beck]

Throw them away? Why would you toss them if they could be used again? I mean what's the worst that came happen?

To be clear, I'm not talking about your used tape that you bought new. I’m talking about tape with an unknown history.

If a tape is opened when you first receive it, all bets are off as to its fitness. You can trust the seller that it is “One-pass” or “Used little” but there are other things you are likely to see these days:

1. You can’t be sure what the tape really is (unless it’s BASF SM468, which has “SM468” printed along the back of the entire length of the tape).

- You don’t know what brand or type of tape it is. It could be 406 on a reel marked 456, or even 3M 226. It could also be a different class of tape, such as 996 or 499.

- It can be an older tape than what the date code indicates. You can have a box or 456 marked as made in 1999, but the tape on the reel is from 1989.


2. You don’t know how the tape has been used.

- Tape is usually good for hundreds of passes before dropouts and stretching become audible, but the condition of the machine and habits of the user can shorten (or lengthen) a tape’s life considerably. I’ve seen tape that has fine cuts along its length because the machine’s heads were shot and were cutting a physical path. Same goes for guides and lifters that are worn flat. Tape used on a poorly maintained machine can be easily damaged. I’ve seen lots of this tape over the years. Does the former user smoke? That’s also bad for tape.

- The tape may already have hundreds of passes on it.

3. Sticky shed.

Bottom line – the seller of the used tape has to have the integrity, technical background, and knowledge of the particular tape’s history for you to be reasonably sure you have what you think you have.

I see a lot of tape on ebay from broadcast and recording studio storage that’s been around the block a few times. Some of it is obviously old and/or has mismatched boxes and reels, but some you can’t tell by looking. Some tape has been through several owners… and that tape you get free with a machine may have been bought as “One-pass” to begin with.

Last time I bought a machine on ebay the seller had several reels of used tape as a “Bonus”. I asked him to keep the tape, which saved me on shipping costs.

Many problems that end up as questions on this forum are due to bad tape of one kind or another. IMO, the best and least costly thing to do is buy brand new, sealed tape.

 

[eeieeio]

Well, thanks everyone for the advice. I do have one new reel of tape that came with the recorder, but figured I'd use the used tape to put down ideas and save the new tape for when I'm ready to go all out. The used tapes are both listed and in thier own box as Grand Master Gold 499 with the reciepts in the boxes from 2000. The new tape is 456 and is sealed. Like I said I am new to this and didn't even know you had to set up the machine for different tape.

1. What is the better tape, the 456 or 499?

2. Will any harm come to the machine or tape if I use tape it's not set up for?

3. Can I do this set up myself and if so how?

4. What is the best tape I can get for the TSR-8?


Thank you all!

 

[jpmorris]

Well, thanks everyone for the advice. I do have one new reel of tape that came with the recorder, but figured I'd use the used tape to put down ideas and save the new tape for when I'm ready to go all out. The used tapes are both listed and in thier own box as Grand Master Gold 499 with the reciepts in the boxes from 2000. The new tape is 456 and is sealed. Like I said I am new to this and didn't even know you had to set up the machine for different tape.

I think the TSR is factory-set for 456 or SM911 (depending on the region). The manual doesn't actually seem to say.

499 doesn't have the shedding problem as far as I know - with Ampex/Quantegy tape you can find the date of manufacture in the serial number, e.g. 92126 is 1992 (and very bad shit, incidentally - you don't want to use pre-1995 Ampex tape). With Quantegy it's more like 2006126 which would be 2006.

I have in my ignorance used 499 on a 456 without too many problems, but the 499 formula is supposed to be more abrasive on the heads.

Bear in mind that DBX will tend to make the difference between tape formulations rather smaller.