C
chessrock
Banned
Ethan Winer said:
Yup. That's why you gotta' go and order yourself some of them . . . whadya' call 'em? Real Traps?
Who the heck makes those, anyway? I hear the dude's a wacko.
just kidding, by the way
Yup. That's why you gotta' go and order yourself some of them . . . whadya' call 'em? Real Traps?
Who the heck makes those, anyway? I hear the dude's a wacko.
just kidding, by the way
Ethan Winer
Acoustics Expert
Chess,
Occasionally I'm accused of self-promotion, but I have to tell you that I make bass traps because I believe in them, not the other way around.
--Ethan
Occasionally I'm accused of self-promotion, but I have to tell you that I make bass traps because I believe in them, not the other way around.
--Ethan
Son of Mixerman
Mix Junior
Ethan,
My intention was not to challenge your knowledge, I didn't understand why you would refer to active crossovers when the discussion was within eq design. Isnt adding PRC's into the feedback loop a filter? Your having to choose your Q and cutoffs, just like anyother bandpass filter. Its economical to limit the number of opamps by going thru the feedback loop.
The classic "Argument from Authority" is invoked because you said I was perpetuating a myth. In which I disagreed and quoted sources of my information in addition to my personal experience. If I make a claim and its disputed, what is wrong with quoting sources?
SoMm
My intention was not to challenge your knowledge, I didn't understand why you would refer to active crossovers when the discussion was within eq design. Isnt adding PRC's into the feedback loop a filter? Your having to choose your Q and cutoffs, just like anyother bandpass filter. Its economical to limit the number of opamps by going thru the feedback loop.
The classic "Argument from Authority" is invoked because you said I was perpetuating a myth. In which I disagreed and quoted sources of my information in addition to my personal experience. If I make a claim and its disputed, what is wrong with quoting sources?
SoMm
C
chessrock
Banned
Ethan Winer said:Occasionally I'm accused of self-promotion, but I have to tell you that I make bass traps because I believe in them, not the other way around.
And you're doing a valuable service to the audio community in the process. You're not going to hear any complaints, even out of me.
Ethan Winer
Acoustics Expert
SOMMY,
> I didn't understand why you would refer to active crossovers when the discussion was within eq design. <
Where did I do that? I was talking about EQ all along, then you mentioned combining, and pitch shifts, etc. But okay, as long as we're back to EQ only we're cool.
> Isnt adding PRC's into the feedback loop a filter? <
What's a PRC? Anyway, there's no "combining" of bands in a regular console EQ, which is something you brought up.
Just so we're all clear, I am talking about phase shift as used in a conventional equalizer. I am talking about the fact that equalizers rely on phase shift for their basic operation. My contention is that phase shift all by itself is totally harmless and inaudible. It has no sound by itself. Only when you use phase shift to create a second path, which is then combined with the original signal, does the frequency response change. And in that case it is the change in frequency response you hear, not the phase shift. And yes, of course I have auditioned phase shift all by itself. The problem is it's very difficult for most people to audition phase shift alone. Well, I amend that - now that LittleLabs has their IBP it's now possible with an off the shelf device. I had to make my own.
> The classic "Argument from Authority" is invoked because you said I was perpetuating a myth. In which I disagreed and quoted sources of my information in addition to my personal experience. <
Okay, fair enough.
But I cannot for the life of me imagine how a conventional EQ circuit is going to create a pre-echo of sufficient delay or magnitude to be audible let alone a problem in practice.
I'll also say that even if under highly controlled circumstances it's possible discern "artifacts" related to phase in a typical EQ, it's still very far from the main problems most folks have to contend with when trying to make good recordings.
--Ethan
> I didn't understand why you would refer to active crossovers when the discussion was within eq design. <
Where did I do that? I was talking about EQ all along, then you mentioned combining, and pitch shifts, etc. But okay, as long as we're back to EQ only we're cool.
> Isnt adding PRC's into the feedback loop a filter? <
What's a PRC? Anyway, there's no "combining" of bands in a regular console EQ, which is something you brought up.
Just so we're all clear, I am talking about phase shift as used in a conventional equalizer. I am talking about the fact that equalizers rely on phase shift for their basic operation. My contention is that phase shift all by itself is totally harmless and inaudible. It has no sound by itself. Only when you use phase shift to create a second path, which is then combined with the original signal, does the frequency response change. And in that case it is the change in frequency response you hear, not the phase shift. And yes, of course I have auditioned phase shift all by itself. The problem is it's very difficult for most people to audition phase shift alone. Well, I amend that - now that LittleLabs has their IBP it's now possible with an off the shelf device. I had to make my own.
> The classic "Argument from Authority" is invoked because you said I was perpetuating a myth. In which I disagreed and quoted sources of my information in addition to my personal experience. <
Okay, fair enough.
But I cannot for the life of me imagine how a conventional EQ circuit is going to create a pre-echo of sufficient delay or magnitude to be audible let alone a problem in practice.
I'll also say that even if under highly controlled circumstances it's possible discern "artifacts" related to phase in a typical EQ, it's still very far from the main problems most folks have to contend with when trying to make good recordings.
--Ethan
C
chessparov
New member
Ethan, do you hear THAT much of a difference between a nice
project studio level, like a DBX 242, and something like a GML,
if you're doing mild to moderate EQing, on most sources?
Chris
project studio level, like a DBX 242, and something like a GML,
if you're doing mild to moderate EQing, on most sources?
Chris
C
chessparov
New member
Sorry, meant "nice project studio level PARAMETRIC," in last post.
Chris
Chris
Ethan Winer
Acoustics Expert
Chris,
> do you hear THAT much of a difference between a nice
project studio level, like a DBX 242, and something like a GML,
if you're doing mild to moderate EQing, on most sources? <
I got rid of all my hardware a few years ago, and now I do everything with Sonar and (mainly) the UltraFunk plug-ins. But I can get just about any EQ to do what I want with no effort. EQ is a pretty straight-forward process, and you have to be a pretty lame designer to make a bad one. Unlike reverbs that really do vary a lot from brand to brand.
--Ethan
> do you hear THAT much of a difference between a nice
project studio level, like a DBX 242, and something like a GML,
if you're doing mild to moderate EQing, on most sources? <
I got rid of all my hardware a few years ago, and now I do everything with Sonar and (mainly) the UltraFunk plug-ins. But I can get just about any EQ to do what I want with no effort. EQ is a pretty straight-forward process, and you have to be a pretty lame designer to make a bad one. Unlike reverbs that really do vary a lot from brand to brand.
--Ethan
C
chessparov
New member
Thanks Ethan.
Chris
Chris
badgas
New member
I hope my question here is related to the first post by, progmr.
I have a two channel EQ with duel 31 bands. I also have a duel channel compressor. Also, I've never played bass much in my life, until I began recording my own songs.
When I record my bass, the strings, ADG sound great, but the E string when used from open to the nineth fret, Db, rumbles the speakers on anything I play the track on. I'm fairly new with using EQs and Compressors other than what Sonar provided, and I've done some experiementing on my hardware, to no avail.
My Bass is set up down the middle, the tone nobs. I'm feeding it into my amp in high gain and to my mixer from the high gain out.
Basiclly I want the original clean sound of this instrument so I've left most setting in the middle.
Can I correct this low end rumbling with the EQ and/or Compressor?
My tail is really tied in a knot over this one.
Thanks for any help, ideas, spam or derogatory remarks.
By the way, Ethan Winer, that is a good article.
I have a two channel EQ with duel 31 bands. I also have a duel channel compressor. Also, I've never played bass much in my life, until I began recording my own songs.
When I record my bass, the strings, ADG sound great, but the E string when used from open to the nineth fret, Db, rumbles the speakers on anything I play the track on. I'm fairly new with using EQs and Compressors other than what Sonar provided, and I've done some experiementing on my hardware, to no avail.
My Bass is set up down the middle, the tone nobs. I'm feeding it into my amp in high gain and to my mixer from the high gain out.
Basiclly I want the original clean sound of this instrument so I've left most setting in the middle.
Can I correct this low end rumbling with the EQ and/or Compressor?
My tail is really tied in a knot over this one.
Thanks for any help, ideas, spam or derogatory remarks.
By the way, Ethan Winer, that is a good article.
W
Wife
New member
I believe what you want to do would be best accomplished with a compressor or limiter. Rather than lowering the volume of your B string, it would raise the volume of the other strings to balance out the volume level. Just don't overdo it. A threshold of about
-20, high ratio, and a fairly quick attack and release should be a good starting point. Good luck!
Lynn
-20, high ratio, and a fairly quick attack and release should be a good starting point. Good luck!
Lynn
Dethska
Not a Mod
I'm going to go on a limb here and agree with Chessrock
This has been a really good discussion. This should become the model of how arguments (discussions) should be handled. Sticking to the facts, remaining polite, ignoring any comments that might be a personal attack, and NO FLAMING. Thank you guys.
This has been a really good discussion. This should become the model of how arguments (discussions) should be handled. Sticking to the facts, remaining polite, ignoring any comments that might be a personal attack, and NO FLAMING. Thank you guys.