Is it possible to get a good sounding song without using any EQ or Compression relying on Volume Balancing alone ? ( indie rock)

LearningTheBasics

LearningTheBasics

New member
Hey guys,

Long time song writer and on/off recording, always struggled after I have recorded all my tracks making it sound anything like I hear it sounding in my head.

I struggle with setting the levels firstly... just when I think I have it think my Bass is too low... then my drums sound hidden so turn it up also... then I think ohhh can hardly hear the guitars and go round and round in this loop.

EQ I think have a general Idea of trying to cut any unwanted or clashing frequencies when some instruments are occupying the same area ?

Compression is one I'm interested in but not had much success, It can help with dampening sounds in a track that are too prominent while bringing up other parts that were too quiet to create a fuller sound ?

I notice with my bass recordings when doing string jumps from Low E to D and for example doing funky octaves... I hear the D string a little bit louder than the Low E note.. this probably is a big reason I can never quite get the levels right as I constantly hear the bass going too quiet in some sections and then too loud.

IS there any good Youtube videos that would help with the part I'm stuck at that's past the part of recording the tracks and focusing on getting levels right along with correcting tracks for consistent volume like the bass issue ?

I use Reaper and have addictive drums along with Fab Filters installed.

Thanks
 
A lot of it is dependent upon your playing style. EQ can be very helpful to have your tracks sit in their proper space according to your liking.

Compression, on the other hand, is a different nut to crack and learning how to to use it properly. I've come close a few times....accidentally.
 
In my humble view, the balance of levels between the sources is where the work goes every time. Not just the levels but the panning in the stereo field, and looking at a bunch of tracks, in my head I try to imagine them being played live - and where they would be, and how far away. Drums, for instance, would very, very rarely be closest to you, so they need to sound real. Assuming they're not heavily processed fake drums. Two guitars? Well that's one either side. The drums and probably your bass might be nearer the middle - a left or right only bass used to be impossible to record on vinyl, but just sounds odd anyway. Your keys can be everywhere, or in just one place.

Once the picture is in my head, and the pans are set, I'll often add the reverb at that point - even if it's not the exactly right reverb - but add the reverb to set the distance, and then it's levels. For me, the first arrival of an instrument in the song sets the first level, and generally that then goes down a bit as more get added. It just takes practice, and a good set of monitors or headphones. Ones you trust and understand.

EQ, for me is a problem solver rather than an artistic enhancement. I know my bass loses clarity above about 4K, and has a boomy peak at around 300Hz or so, so usually, in the EQ, I'll put the notch in at 300, and pull up the frequencies a bit at 3.5, going up to about ten-ish. That seems to work on my bass. If it is somebody else's bass, or one of my less played ones, I have to experiment to balance them up. I'll do the same on all the other sources - pulling up or down till each one sounds like it is supposed to. I struggle with drums - always have. I set each one with EQ and usually it takes many attempts for maybe 6 tracks to sound like one. It's me, I'm just not good at drums.

I don't go in for effects very often, and on some of my classical music projects there is no EQ at all, bar perhaps losing the very bottom end on some mics to get rid of noise. Those recordings rely on really good mic placement more than anything.
 
LearningTheBasics said:
Hey guys,

Long time song writer and on/off recording, always struggled after I have recorded all my tracks making it sound anything like I hear it sounding in my head.
I struggle with setting the levels firstly... just when I think I have it think my Bass is too low... then my drums sound hidden so turn it up also... then I think ohhh can hardly hear the guitars and go round and round in this loop
I use Reaper and have addictive drums along with Fab Filters installed
Click to expand...
Basically you have to start at the beginning = Get your Drums sounding good and stop monkeying around with them - get your bass sounding good and stop monkeying around with them - then do your vocals and get them sounding great and stop monkeying around with them- then do your guitars and stop monkeying around with them -
then with EQ go to the drums and figure out which frequencies are good and what steps on the bass and cut them - do the same with the bass - and then your guitars see how they mix with everything and back off the frequencies that don't work - but think about them and don't just cut things to cut things - leave your vocals alone - then see how your mix is - this chart will give you a starting place for your EQ cuts.
freq-chart.jpg
 
I like going back to basics, then I have a frequency chart I refer to to help get each instrument set in place. Many times, you don't need to adjust the volume when all that's needed is to clear a space for an instrument to poke through. It's not a hard and fast rule, just a way to get it done a lot of times.

This video starts with drums and moves on to the other instruments.

 
It is certainly possible but you really need to start well before you hit the record button. Think about the arrangement. Does every instrument have its own space or a defined function in the arrangement? Then, when you get to the studio are your drums properly tuned? Are the instruments properly set up and in tune? Are you confident in playing the parts that you need to play. Can you play it in your sleep?

Once you've reached that level then you can go ahead and press the record button and you'll probably end up with something that can be mixed with very few further effects. I often do flat straight mixes when I do multitrack transfers just so that the client can hear what is on the tape and some of those have got as far as being released (though I never expected them to be). Here's one example where there was nothing added in the mix although there was a little extra eq and compression at the mastering stage.

 
As to your bass problem (different volumes from each string) - this could be the way you are playing, or a pickup adjustment needed. As long as each note is separate, you can automate the volume on the track, applying a little compression will help, but not fix that.
 
However, think of EQ and effects as possible enhancers rather than "must-haves."
Even if you must have them.
 
If your base recordings sound like crap, then the answer is .... NO! Depending on what you are recording... maybe.

One of my first recordings was a girls high school choral concert. I had my Dokorder 4 track tape deck, 3 microphones, a Teac AX20 mix down panel that would set a channel to either left, right or center, and my buddy's Teac tape deck for capturing the stereo mix. You had volume controls for each channel on the Dokorder and a channel switch.

They used the mixdown tape to cut a record that the parents gladly paid money to buy. EQ? Nope. Compressor.. HA! Reverb? Well the hall sounded pretty nice. Editing? A razor blade and a little aluminum block and some paper leader tape.

My Zoom R24 would have been like the Rolling Stones Mobile Unit compared to what I had back then.
 
I don't mix often anymore, but when I did (and still when I do), it's almost a rule that the more talented the musicians on the way in, the less EQ anything needs on the way out. With most of the better sounding mixes I've ever done, EQ was a subjective choice - not a necessity.
 
LearningTheBasics said:
I struggle with setting the levels firstly... just when I think I have it think my Bass is too low... then my drums sound hidden so turn it up also... then I think ohhh can hardly hear the guitars and go round and round in this loop.
Click to expand...
Usually I've found that I tend to push my drums too loud. I often mix something, then - without listening - pull down the drums 2-3db and then give a listen -- it's perfect.

My levels philosophy -- unless an instrument is playing a solo, you shouldn't notice it. You mentioned indie rock, so this will vary widely depending on the instrumentation. But if you have a few synths, guitars, etc., none of them should be sticking out. I think it's hard for us home recordists to mix what we've recorded ourselves, as we want to hear what we played on each instrument. But they need to blend. Think Phil Spector / wall of sound. Good example: ABBA's Gimme Gimme Gimme. Until literally last week, I had no idea that the opening riff plays through every chorus section!
 
Serendipity Records said:
My levels philosophy -- unless an instrument is playing a solo, you shouldn't notice it
Click to expand...
I don't really have a levels philosophy. Every song is different and every song has different variables, even where there might be similar instrumentation. Sometimes, I most certainly do want an instrument that isn't soloing noticed, but this is dependent on what it may be doing at that particular moment in time, and how it relates to the whole.
 
grimtraveller said:
I don't really have a levels philosophy. Every song is different and every song has different variables, even where there might be similar instrumentation. Sometimes, I most certainly do want an instrument that isn't soloing noticed, but this is dependent on what it may be doing at that particular moment in time, and how it relates to the whole.
Click to expand...
Of course. Especially if you just have one guitar or keyboard for backing, you'll want it to be very much "there".
 
jamesperrett said:
It is certainly possible but you really need to start well before you hit the record button. Think about the arrangement. Does every instrument have its own space or a defined function in the arrangement? Then, when you get to the studio are your drums properly tuned? Are the instruments properly set up and in tune? Are you confident in playing the parts that you need to play.
Click to expand...
This^^^
 
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