Dumping tracks from 424 MKIII into computer

[chippedeggtooth]

Have a Delta audiophile soundcard and Cubasis software, and before I buy a 424 MKIII I want to find out if I can dump tracks into my computer one at a time and work on them in Cubasis. I've been told you can't without using MIDI sync, because you won't be able to line up the tracks exactly perfect with each other, and eventually the milliseconds of discrepancy will add up to be noticable.

Figuring this is crucial because I want analog sound quality of the 4 track but I want to use the more-tracks-than-I-know-what-to-do-with (I'm sure I'll think of something) of Cubasis. Since I've already got the computer setup I want to figure out if this is even possible, and whether a MIDI sync-ing device will do the trick. I jst saw at a store they have the MIDIMAN Syncman MIDI Syncronizer... Is this something that I could use for this? Thanks.

 

[esactun]

Are you sure you want to do this....

IMHO, the "analog" sound is from the big expensive high-end pro decks and not from Portastudios and the like. If you already have the computer and Cubase, getting a 424 is redundant and will likely only degrade your sound (as opposed to "warming it up")--tape hiss, etc.

If you really want to dump 4-track tracks into the 'pooter, you'll need either one of those nifty sync devices you mentioned (I know nothing about them--is the 424 even compatible with them?) or a good sound editor with a time compress feature.

This is what I did when remixing from old 4-track "reels":
--Dump two tracks at a time, very-hard-panned (100% in each direction) into the stereo line input (or other appropriate input).
--Save the stereo file.
--Dump the other two tracks in by the same method, and save.
--Look at both files. Trim off silence etc. from each end (this gets much more complicated if all the tracks don't run the full length of the song...let's assume that they do for now.) So now you have two stereo files, one of tracks 1&2 and the other of tracks 3&4, each going from the start of the four-count to the end of the last note's decay. **If this is not done right, the whole process collapses.**
--See which file is the SHORTEST. For short songs, the difference in length may only be milliseconds.
--Time compress the longer file so it's length is identical to the shorter file's length. (Time compress is **much** more sonically benign than time expand!!)
--Take each channel of each track and save as a separate file, so now you have four mono files of one track each. Load into your multitrack software and mix, add overdubs, etc.

It's not the easiest process. In fact, it's a real pain in the ass. I only do it for old crappy stuff that I have no desire to ever re-record, and to help "enhance" my buddy's old stuff. If I had to do it every time I recorded, I'd probably give up recording!

The time differences are from the fact that the 4-track will have slight difference in playing speed every time it's played. And if your 4-track varies in speed at all DURING the dumping process, this method won't work without ***serious*** editing (better off retracking at that point, usually...).

 

[Vurt]

Listen to esactun either record directly into the computer or get a real analog machine to track to - one that will provide the warmth you're after. If you decide in the end to get the 424, you might be able to use something like the Cooper PPS-2 to sync up with the PC. I use one b/w my 424 and DAW.

 

[chippedeggtooth]

thanks for the replies, guys.

so Vurt, if you had to do it again you would go straight into your computer or get an analog machine that I'll never afford? I started a new post in the recording section where I'm getting good advice on how to enhance my computer, sounds like with my budget that's the way to go, instead of getting a 424 and a midi sync'er

 

[Vurt]

I hate tracking to computer. I use the PPS-2 in sync with a Korg D1600 (for dirty guitar only), and then mixdown from the Korg to computer for final editing/burning. There's no questioning the benefits of digital vs. the 4 track cassette decks, but like I've said before, I highly recommend starting out on cassette 4 tracks while learning as much as you can before moving up to something bigger/better. BUT, since you already seem to have the makings of a good DAW, no sense going backwards. So no, I don't regret starting on 4 track one bit. I think everyone should. Hell, I still use one of them anyway - I like the way big rock guitar sounds on them for some songs.

 

[chippedeggtooth]

I hear ya...

I started out on a little fostex 4 track, so easy to use, record anywhere, then it broke cause it got sand in it when I was recording on the beach at the gulf of mexico (plugged into car cigarette lighter)... I was even looking into those little pocketstudios, but I think I better invest in the DAW now that I've started it.

The 4 track I just found so easy to use which is important when you;re into spontaneious creation and capturing the artistic breakthrough, ect.

If syncing to the computer is a pain, I don't want to deal with it, I might as well force myself to figure out why my DAW isn't sounding up to par with a $100 4 track....

 

[dr grip]

4 tracks

I have a 424mkIII and a delta 44 and I use the 4 tape outs to record the 4 simultaneous tracks into the pc, each track has its own channel. There are no sync problems in this fashion. You need a second mixer to apply eq, etc.. at mixdown.

I know that the audiophile has spdif ins, you could get a converter or a preamp device with spdif outs, which would give you 4 input tracks.

Otherwise the person who posted above is correct, just skip the 4 track and multitrack on the audiophile. If you want more inputs at once you can add another audiophile card or a delta 44, 66, quattro, or 1010...

I use the 4 track to record practices and improv jams, which sometimes actually turn out to have 'nuggets' on them that couldn't be reproduced if we tried. This is where the tape outs are useful. I can run the signal straight off the tape into a mackie mixer out to the delta 44. This way the separate tracks are preserved, and I can then overdub to my heart's content in the pc. The 424 on high speed with a mackie as the front end (tascam pres on 0, eqs flat) actually sounds pretty damn decent.

The biggest weakness of the 424 is the mic preamps, they sound very midrangey and thin...which can actually be a good effect on a guitar. By using an external mixer for gain and running the tascam at line level you can get a much better sound.

 

[chippedeggtooth]

Re: 4 tracks

thanks for the ideas, i didn't think of using the spdif ins.

I use the 4 track to record practices and improv jams, which sometimes actually turn out to have 'nuggets' on them that couldn't be reproduced if we tried.

that's one of the things that is often underestimated around here-- the value of capturing that sponteneous jamming moment, which isn't necessarily going to happen sitting in front of a computer. That's why I've decided to ditch the 424 idea and get a pocketstudio 5 when they finally come out. what it lacks in bits should be more than made up for in what really counts: the spontaneous creation and capturing of ideas.