Dumb Digital Rant

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Dubwise

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Cutting my teeth at a large pro studio in Nashville, I realized three things.

One: was that nobody ever used the old "out-of date" Studer A-80 2", making it always available for an intern who wanted to come in late at night to learn the studio.

Two: was that the recording on the 2" sure sounded a heck of a lot better than the Pro Tools recordings I assisted with during the day (the engineers were world famous guys, so of course the "sounds" were great, it's just that the sounds on playback sounded a lot flatter than what went in).

Three: (most important) is that all day long, out of studio A,B,C, and D you could here engineers complaining, or very frequently "freaking out", because some drive just failed, or something locked up, or someone never hit save, or latency this, clock jitter that. "Get this drive shipped out to Apple ASAP, it needs to be recovered." "My drive won't work with your system"...the list could go on. My point is that they were all miserable with digital, and about half would daydream back to the days of simple tape.

So those experiences pretty much made me realize that digital is pretty dumb. Why all that hassle, to get an inferior sounding product (which by the way, in my 4 years at this studio NOT ONCE! out of the dozens of engineers I asked, "why go digital if it is such a pain?" did I ever get the response, "because it sounds better." I only got cheap excuses, and about half agreed with me but just said, "thats what the record company wants.").

I befriended a rather well known LA engineer from the 80s, and once when one of his sessions got cancelled, he stayed for a few hours to help me with a mix. After about three hours he was estatic about how fresh and unfatigued his ears were. He said, "I could mix off tape all night, with digital after about 3 hours of critical listening, I need a break." He hadn't worked off tape in years and would not shut up about how good it felt to hear natural sound again.

Well, there is my sunday morning (pre coffee) rant.

p.s.
I have total respect for home digital guys, in my opinion people should record by any means they have available and with any budget. I am more refering to larger projects who have a budget, and no excuse in my opoinion to not be using analog. Sorry guys, all who will defend the idea of dumb digital in large studios with "tape hiss is too much" or "we need the extra tracks" don't know much. A good tape machine (studer, otari, ampex) with high output tape has a pretty damn low noise floor. In my experience, all engineers who complain about tape noise have never even used a good tape machine. As far as tracks go, c'mon guys if you need 48 tracks to record a 5 piece rock band, then maybe you should find another profession.

WOW! didn't mean to be so negative, I really need to stop typing and get somne coffe!!!
 
Yeah, tape sure has some magic! It is a shame that it is getting used less and less.
 
I guess the biggest argument for digital recording is the editting functions and endless plugins available. I agree tape sounds great but have you ever spliced tape? :rolleyes:
 
Micter said:
I guess the biggest argument for digital recording is the editting functions and endless plugins available. I agree tape sounds great but have you ever spliced tape? :rolleyes:



exactly. And not only that, but you need MASSES of outboard gear as well. And also, during a sessioon you'll lose a considerable amount of time fast forwarding, rewinding etc the tape. it almost becomes important to employ a tape operator, and in this day and age of "budget this" and "budget that", most studios can't afford to employ another person just to man the tape machine..
 
theboy said:
Why dont they just make digital tape? Jeez its simple

Please tell me that you just forgot to put in the "I was joking" smiley face! :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
A lot of great music was produced with little editing! Plus, you can edit tape, you just have to edit the whole take with another whole take, etc...

MASSES of outboard gear? Have you ever considered that you need MASSES of plugins because digital just doesn't have that much of a a great sound? Also, your average big studio mixing console will have an eq on every channel. In addition, many of them had compression per channel. That eliminates the need for a lot of stand alone boxes. ;)
 
There is no analog Autotune. Most essential even for most of today's bigger projects. And yeah, it is more about editting than track count, methinks.
 
And there very well shouldn't be analog autotune.

Oh wait, there is - its called vocal lessons :)

but, those are more expensive and time consuming, and who wants to become a better performer when a couple button pushes can solve the problem? I realise it is much simpler and faster, but it has really left the music industry with an easy way to generate what they want to generate.

Don't get me wrong, I like digital just fine, and it is of course the only optin for a home recording hobbiest like myself, since the cost of owning and operating an analog 2" deck would be astronomical on my budget. When I get the budget together I'll be bumping up to an HD24... but if I had the option Id go analog. *someday, maybe*
 
Sound aside, it just seems like most of those people in that studio don't know what the heck they're doing with the computer gear. Realistically, there should be no need to go into panic mode and spend around $3,000 to recover the contents of a drive if they had good backup and robust storage.

They should invest in a robust master clock, and make sure their wiring is in good shape... just as they'd do with analog... except it's easier to hear bad wiring with all that hum and stuff.

They used to spend countless hours aligning analog tape, cleaning machines, working on the power systems, maintaining equipment...

It seems to me that most people expect digital systems, and specially computers to just work and don't realise the fact that those systems also require their own unique maintenance, tuning and whatnot.

Most of those digital "freakout" moments really stem from ignorance, so, sorry, you won't get any simpathy from me on that one :)

Audio quality... eh... whatever.
 
Ford Van said:
A lot of great music was produced with little editing! Plus, you can edit tape, you just have to edit the whole take with another whole take, etc...

MASSES of outboard gear? Have you ever considered that you need MASSES of plugins because digital just doesn't have that much of a a great sound? Also, your average big studio mixing console will have an eq on every channel. In addition, many of them had compression per channel. That eliminates the need for a lot of stand alone boxes. ;)


Of course you can edit tape, I never said you couldn't :rolleyes: Just that it's much simpler in a DAW than with tape.


Don't get me wrong, I love tape. I love the sound of it, i love the smell of it, i love tape. But for me, right now, it isn't practical to have it, and in most studios today (read: non-"big studio mixing console", cause let's face it there's less of them open professionally) it isn't either.


Whilst tape does have its place, it isn't in most studios today..simply doesn't meet the market demand IMHO.
 
I've heard a lot of analog recordings that most might call "warm" but I would call shitty.

I've also heard a lot of digital recordings that sounded "harsh, cold, sterile" and then other digital recordings that sounded really good and clean.

I would personally prefer to work with good digital equipment (cause it's cheaper) and maybe have some nice analog outboard gear to use.
 
A combination of the two is also popular. Record onto tape, then transfer it to a DAW. This is the best of both worlds. You get the analog tape sound, and the editing capabilities of digital. Then you can tell record execs that you used protools, which is what they want. However, it still has the issue of expensive tape. Sure you can record over tape, but only so many times. And then there's still the possibility of hard drives failing, system errors, etc. Basically, there's always going to be positive and negative qualities to each method.
 
....

Digital on average saves time over tape, even in large studios. Finding someone to fix your Studer is harder than finding a computer tech.

If the studio likes tape enough they would fight for it and tie Studers together to track with.

With that said, I love tape, but big studios need to make money, less time editing and trouble shooting means more projects and more reputation.

It's too bad for tape lovers that producers like speed and efficiency. :(
 
Ford Van said:
Plus, you can edit tape, you just have to edit the whole take with another whole take, etc...
I'd like to see Aphex Twin, Kid606 and them do their cutups using tape :p
 
IronFlippy said:
Record onto tape, then transfer it to a DAW.

What kind of tape recorder would you recommend? I've been thinking of doing this for awhile.
 
Analog tape... Ah... no cut and paste, no tempo corrections, no time shifts... no... :rolleyes:

Why doesn't it get used much anymore? 'Cause most of the artists the labels are pushing out now a days can't play/perform the stuff. They HAVE to have all the editing, fixing, correcting options that you don't get with Analog. :eek: Yep... Let's ALL go back to analog and force these "recording artists" to learn how to actually play their own 4 minute song!

There... :D [/rant] I feel better.
 
eyeteeth said:
Analog tape... Ah... no cut and paste, no tempo corrections, no time shifts... no... :rolleyes:

Why doesn't it get used much anymore? 'Cause most of the artists the labels are pushing out now a days can't play/perform the stuff. They HAVE to have all the editing, fixing, correcting options that you don't get with Analog. :eek: Yep... Let's ALL go back to analog and force these "recording artists" to learn how to actually play their own 4 minute song!

There... :D [/rant] I feel better.

agreed. chicklets!
 
Wow. Is this an "analog versus digital" argument ...

... on a discussion board?

Wow! Holy crap, I've never seen one of those. :rolleyes:

Excuse me while I go look out my window to see if I can spot a Unicorn.

.
 
Response...

Well first off, I am suprised at the # of responses.

I want to be clear that I have NO problem with home enthusiasts and semi-pro, local band type, studios using digital. But my point (which all of the digital sympathisers helped me to clearly point out) is that there are all these urban legends about tape that are untrue. Especially when talking about 16 and 24 track machines from the mid-70s and later. Most people are completly ignorant (I don't mean that negativley, just factualy) about tape, and only believe what unoriginal advertisers shove down their throats.

So I have a few rebutles to the mis-informed...

Tape Splicing ... Takes practice, like anything else worth doing. But yes I have done it.. a lot. Made tape loops (drums) all the time. Spliced 2 different takes together numerous times. PRACTICE...much cooler by the way than clicking a mouse, you feel like you acomplished something when done.

Masses of Outboard Gear ...are you freaking kidding!!!!! All the Pro Tools guys had to have (literally) $30-50,000 woth of pre's and outboard compressors to make there stuff half way decent. I'll let you boys in on a little secret, you know that LA-2 or 1176LN or Pultech plug-in you spent a few hundred dollars on? Well, it sounds nothing like the real thing. I have worked with both many many times and they are a joke. The companies just market that stuff to you digital guys knowing y'all ain't never used the real thing so how would you know how it sounds?

Tape Op ...This made me laugh my butt off. This ain't the 1940s. All tape machines from the late 1960s on came with remotes and long ass connector cables. Tape machine in the machine room, remote sitting next to you and the console all nice and cozy. Sorry, but all the Pro Tool engineers came in with their own pro tool operators, they just got sounds, but their guy would sit there and do all the edits etc.

Autotune ...Which is such a ridiculous point as they should have no place in the studio, but there are ways that old school badass tape guys would pitch shift (varispeed) by a few cents to get a slightly out of tune vocal right.

Aligning Tape Machines ..contrary to what you heard, I can calibrate a 24 track machine in a quarter of the time it takes you to defrag your drive. It ususally takes about 20 minutes, and only about 4or5 times before it is second nature. Best of all you can personalize it. Unlike digital (what you put in you get out) Tape machines are like tube guitar amps, they become an instrument that you can manipulate to get different tones out of.

And Finally to NOISEWRECK ... I understand the point you are getting at, but while your argument has merit in a perfect world, the studio I worked at had exceptional clocks, all Apoggee converters and all other top of the line stuff. The engineers were not idiots. All of my experience with digital comes from assisting on sessions for Hank Williams Jr., Emylou Harriss, Amee Mann, Neil Young, Ludacrist, Garth Brooks, Outkast etc. All the engineers had these problems at one time or another, and most hated the format more than I do, they just had no choice. I ain't trying to name-drop, I was only the assistant anyhow, I just wanted to make it clear that these weren't amateur engineers with these problems. I am sure these problems are easier to manage at your home when everthing goes through the same system, but try taking your project to about 4or5 different studios over the course of 6 months and see how many interface problems you have.

Anyway, this ain't a rant about which format is better, it is why in the world do people use digital at all when it doesn't sound as good as tape. I have never heard a reasonable excuse, just rationalizations for the artist's lack of talent, and engineer laziness.

I love you guys!!! :D
 
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