Drummers.... C'mon tell the truth!!

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rushfan33

rushfan33

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I'm seeing a trend in todays drummers that I want to ask about. It seems that drummers now are using way more cymbals than before. Also more percussiony stuff to! I see drum sets with over ten cymbals all the time now. Are all of thosereally needed? And those damn Icebells.....WTF? Are they used for anything worthy? :confused:

What happened to using a 5 piece kit with 2 crashes, a ride and one pair of hats? I'm not one to talk as my sets have been huge in the past but it seems to have gone overboard in general!! I'm sure the cymbal companies are happy but trying to record a drummer that has two tiny splashes right over his toms and just can't live without them is pure hell.

Just a thought!

RF
 
I like my 2 tiny splashes! I wouldn't part with them for anything! I'd also like to have an ice bell too! I'm big into the effects myself, splashes, bells, Portnoy Max Stax... etc. I only have 2 crashes but I'd like a third and a china to top it off too! I don't think you can ever have enough cymbals!
 
What if the English language (or any language) consisted of half as many words? That's a good number of words you can no longer use to try to accurately express yourself. What if artists could only use half as many colors? What if guitars were capable of only producing half as many notes? Drummers have more flexibility (in some ways) than guitarists, and shouldn't feel that they need to limit themselves with regrards to their setup. If you feel like you need an ice bell, use it. If you feel like you need 10 ice bells, use them.
 
You do realize this is a rhetorical question yeah? People don't use 1/8th of the English language anyway. As a matter of fact they make shit up most of the time. Like "shit" for example. I'm not saying drummers are stupid for having so many cymbals and an Icebell. I'm asking if so many are necessary. I'm a drummer of 20 years so I'm not just talking out of my ass.... My older kits always had tons of cymbals. I used the Icebell as an example because I see em' all over the place but I never hear em'.

RF
 
I'm asking if so many are necessary.
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Well, do cymbal makers make a variety of cymbals because they know people will buy them, regardless of need, or is their actually a need?
 
I understand why they make so many.... that's not my point. I'm no trying to limit anyones pallet. I'm trying to understand ones urge to have so many on one kit. I don't hold all drummers in this regard but Many (and I say many with a capital M) use tons of cymbals because their influences do. Again... I'm just asking are so many needed in one drum set. Are they all played with purpose in the context of a song or are they there to look cool?

okay let me rephraze the question:

Why are so many cymbals needed for one drumset?

BTW.... I hate the Icebell!! :D
 
I've got lots of Cymbals

I only play about three + highhats though. Depends on the gig. I have three drumsets with 3 different sized base drums. Only play what the gig needs though.

Generally just a gretch 4 piece with Istanbul 20, old K hats and an old K ride plus a Wuhan thin china.

Yup... Jazzer.

Brighter Cymbals if I play funk or rock.

18 inch bass for piano trios and wide open bass drum stuff.

22 inch for big band, musicals, and rock n roll.
 
If you've got a sponsorship from a cymbal manufacturer take everything they will give you!
 
Oh yeah....especially if you don't have to carry the crap or set it up!
 
I play a four piece with 2 crashes, a ride, high-hat, cowbell and splash. That's IT! all the time. Never really think about adding anything, just subtracting sometimes. ;) :cool:
 
more cym's please!!!!

I play a five piece w/hats, 2 crashs, china, splash, and ride, and i whant to add another china (on my left side) ice bell and another crash(far right side) i see nothing wrong w/ lots of cym(besides more hardware$$$$ and a painful back) differant cym's add differant tones that you can work w/ some riffs/moods in songs. i dont limmit my self on guitar so why should i on drums.
 
I'll be honest...

I have three crashes, a splash, a china, hi-hats, and a ride. I USE (most of the time) hi-hats, ride, two crashes and occasionally the splash. What I end up using is totally dependent on the style of music I'm playing. I don't have much use for a splash or china in a slow blues song, and can usually only fit the china in harder music it seems....
 
all those cymbals aren't necessary but these days you have companies like sabian making sooo many new lines of incredible cymbals that there are way more options. I use 1 ride, 2 crashes, hats and 2 splashes. I could stand to add a china in there and maybe one of those HHX ozone crashes too. there's just so much to choose from.

peace~
 
Interesting post!!!

I've been a gigging drummer for 35 years and have done gigs with as little as a snare and a pair of brushes up to an 11 piece kit with 10 cymbals.

I currently gig with a 4 piece kit (either a Maple or a Birch - depending on the gig and my mood) with 5 cymbals (ride, 2 crashes, 2 splashes) a cow bell, mounted tambourine, jam block, chimes, a mini timbale and sometimes a china.

During the course of a gig I use different sized sticks, mallets, hot rods, and brushes to draw additional colors and moods from my kit.

I find the less things I have to hit the more I concentrate on the groove which is a good thing. However, the more colors I have the more I can offer melodic content (vs. exclusively a rythmic content).

Normally, if I'm working in a 3 piece band (guitar, bass & drums - or - keys, bass and drums) I bring more gear to supplement the sound (in addition to more cymbals I may add drums - up to a 6 or 7 piece kit). If I'm working with more instruments, I tend to take less gear since there are more melodic instruments and I don't need to add melodic content.

So, are all the extra cymbals needed - no!!! Do they allow a drummer more creative expression - I guess it depends on the drummer!!!
 
So, are all the extra cymbals needed - no!!! Do they allow a drummer more creative expression - I guess it depends on the drummer!!!
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Right!!!!!

The reason this entire thread started is because I recorded many bands where the drummer was very young (I'm not implying anything here about age!!) and they were very inexperienced yet they had a giant kit with a giant assortment of cymbals. They would put up as many as possible... even ones that were cracked and missing a wedge!

Sometimes I would ask him or her to remove a cymbal either because it was broken or it was in the way of the mic and they would frreak out! Especially the ones directly above the toms.

RF
 
I find that strange rush, why would someone insist on having ALL their pieces set up regardless if the recording doesn't even call for every piece? That just seems absurd to me and maybe just comes from lack of experience. I'm definitely a "go with the simplicity" kind of guy. I agree with mikeh, less pieces allows me to concentrate more on groove and more pieces are more for adding to the melodic content of a song.

About your comment on the broken cymbals, sometime I like a broken, cracked, or wedged cymbal just to get a really raw and different sound. But I agree with you, they shouldn't be put up if they're not necessary, especially when laying tracks. :cool:
 
rushfan33,

Although age may not in and of itself mean anything, I do find that younger drummers like being surrounded by lots of gear - often without the skill or knowledge to use it properly.

I was a young feller once (I think) and I often wanted to have lots of gear, some of which I used with little regard for good taste and even less regard for the song.

And I do recall having engineers or producers suggesting that certain things should be eliminated or moved - and being the "true artist" I perceived myself to be, I would get an attitude.

After having various recording gigs go to other people (who's chops clearly weren't as good as mine - so I thought) I started to ask why so and so got the gig and eventually I was able to figure out what was important in the studio (not the least of which was satisfying the producer and cooperating with the engineer) and what wasn't important (like all those extra cymbals).

It took me a while to get back to 1st call status (and in some cases I don't know that I ever eliminated the original damage I did to me career/reputation) - but it was a lesson I needed to learn.

Maybe, if the drummers don't understand your concerns, you need to relay the concern (ie: I can't properly mic the toms with that cracked, bad sounding cymbal sitting so close) to who ever is in charge (or whoever is paying for the session).
 
rushfan33 said:
I understand why they make so many.... that's not my point. I'm no trying to limit anyones pallet. I'm trying to understand ones urge to have so many on one kit. I don't hold all drummers in this regard but Many (and I say many with a capital M) use tons of cymbals because their influences do. Again... I'm just asking are so many needed in one drum set. Are they all played with purpose in the context of a song or are they there to look cool?

okay let me rephraze the question:

Why are so many cymbals needed for one drumset?

BTW.... I hate the Icebell!! :D
Click to expand...

Man, you would hate my drumset! :D

2 16"x28" Kicks (yes, that is twenty-EIGHT inches in diameter)
1 16"x20" Floor
1 14"x18" Floor
1 6" rototom
1 8" rototom
1 10" rototom
1 12" rototom
1 14" rototom
1 16" rototom
1 18" rototom

(I am using 7 CHROME Rototoms in place of rack toms. I like the sound, and they cut through really well.)

Paiste Cymbals (except for the Wuhans)

1 - 14" 2002 Soundedge Hi-hat
1 - 22" RUDE Power ride (made in 1981)
1 - 18" 2002 Medium Chrash
1 - 18" Sound Forumula Power Crash
2 - 18" Wuhan China's
1 - 19" 2002 Medium
1 - 20" Sound Formula Full Crash (Think Bonham!)
1 - 20" 2002 China

7- Cup Chimes ranging from 2.5"-8" All from the Signature line

1 8" 2002 Cup Chime

and currenty NO splashes, even though I do plan to add a couple of Wuhans....they are cheap, and sound really "papery", which is what I like.

3 ddrum Pads with a ddrum 3 Rack system.
4 LP spikes.

Shoukld I go on?

Oh, and it's all soon to be mounted on my new Pearl Rack as soon as the rest of my Clamps and my new DW cymbal arms come in. (I'm still using cymbals stands....and that sucks!)

You have to ask yourself:
What kind of music do I play, and what am I trying to accomplish with the kit?

For me, I want as many colors as possible. I was even looking at going all electronic with a v-drum setup, just for the options of sounds, but my band definitely wanted the acoustic drumkit, because it's different sounding already.

I am playing Progmetal (influences include: Fates Warning, Watchtower, Rush, Yes, King Crimson, ELP, and a ton of other non-prog bands) and the larger kit just seemed like a natural thing for this project.

On the other hand, I have my cymbals a bit above my toms, and generally the cymbals are on the sides, and not in front of the kit.




Tim
 
Tim Brown said:


Man, you would hate my drumset! :D
Tim
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No no no....don't get me wrong! I'm not saying that it's dumb or I don't like a lot of cymbals.

Oh man!:(
 
Tim Brown said:

...(I am using 7 CHROME Rototoms in place of rack toms. I like the sound, and they cut through really well.)

...I am playing Progmetal (influences include: Fates Warning, Watchtower, Rush, Yes, King Crimson, ELP, and a ton of other non-prog bands) and the larger kit just seemed like a natural thing for this project.

Tim
Click to expand...

tim - as I started to read your post (the part about rototoms)....I thought to myself - wonder if this guy likes rick calaluca (sp?) of watchtower - then I see further down that they are an influence!! I know that rick played a kit with simmons pads for a bit - but didn't he also have a 'rototom' kit? I believe bozzio went with the rototom kit for a bit (during his remo days)...

rick calaluca (again, I'm not sure about the spelling) is amazing and probably one of the most underrated (due to being rather unknown) drummers out there....energetic disassembly is a great album with some phenomenal drumming

watchtower is coming out with a new record (in case you haven't heard)...

peace
pratt
 
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