Don't Believe The Hype

[PANTYBOY]

...
Listen to anything by Spoon. All early stuff was done on 8 tracks...I challenge you to beat the album Telephono.

Listen to Beulah's When Your Heartstings Break. I mean it!!! Look it up on cdnow or whatever. That record was done with nothing but a 16 track 1/2 inch tascam MSR recorder through the pres of a Fostex 450 16 channel board. 1 DBX 166 compressor, 1CAD E100, 1 4033, and some 57s and 58s are all they had, recorded at their jam spot and when one of you anti lofi clowns makes a record HALF this good at your crib, we'll talk.

Look up Jack Drag. Album...Aviating. Done with a tascam porta2 and a tascam DA38 along with a sampler and some horrible mics no one here would even admit to owning. Same thing....make arecord this good at YOUR house and I'll eat your shit.

YOu could not make a lofi record in two weeks that was any good because you dont understand the genre or the aesthetic so fuck off on that one.

Lastly, the day you got something over the Stooges "Funhouse" record, I'll quit fucking your mom.


I encourage everyone here to search out and listen to the records I outlined just for the sake of it. Home recording at it's best, fellas! Also check out www.jeffereysimmons.com for some wonderful stuff. Email him and he'll send you a copy of his record for free. It's INCREDIBLE! Here....beat this one:

I was thinking once how if my favorite records were done by me and I asked for criticism here, they would be nitpicked to death.

Oh well, fvck me...whatta I know

sometimes people forget that it is always about the music. the engineer is not important, the producer is not important, the band isn't even that important. it's the music. the song. i'll take it in 12 bits, recorded on one mic if i have to, as long as it moves me. in fact, i do take it in this form quite a lot cause some of my favorie music is being written by local bands that don't have the motivation or money to record anything....-teddy

I want to hear the FUCKING BAND not the studio......

The only debate is those who dig it and those that dont..

Not everyone needs tons of production to get the vibe accross.

rod

Everyone says they hate cheap gear, but hey, we all own something cheap from somebody we don't want to admit.?

my vote starts with a c, and ends in arvin. Just becasue this stuff is lower priced doesnt make it cheap.

I'm not a big Behringer fan, but my VAMP II has been a useful and reliable stage box for a couple of years, and the ADA8000 does exactly what I need it to do.

I've had a Behringer mixer and a pre amp for a couple of years now. I love them both. They do what I need them to, what I expect out of them and nothing more.

Behringer.
Nothing is better for the price.
A lot of people just thinks it's crap because it's cheap.
It's not the best, but for the money it is.

Well for what its worth, (I'll get booted off the forum for this.. ) I have some "older" Behringer gear ( the gear with the SIP op-amps) that still works and sounds comparable (sometimes better) than some of the newer manufacturers claims for today.! The Behringer gear has never stopped working since 1995'ish and still works in my racks today. Can't say that about some of the other vendors gear though..!

I KNEW IT WASN'T JUST ME!
SOME OF YOU WERE JUST REALLY BEING RUDE
YOU KNEW THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE
AND WHATS SO BAD ABOUT USING CAPS
I CAN SEE BETTER THAT WAY, ANYWAY

U PEOPLE KILL ME JUMPING ON THE BEHRINGER BASHING BANDWAGON
THEY'VE BEEN IN BUSINESS THIS LONG THEY MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT!

 

[PANTYBOY]

BTW, my setup includes
SURE PG 48 PERFORMANCE (LIVE) MIC
BEHRINGER B-1 CONDESER MIC
SAMSON POP FILTER / W MIC STAND
BEHRINGER TUBE ULTRAGAIN MIC 200 PRE-AMP
BEHRINGER HPM 1OOO HEADSET
AUDIO-TECHNICA ATH M30 MONITORING/REFERENCE HEADPHONES
YAMAHA PSR SERIES KEYBOARD
CAKEWALK SONAR 4
FL STUDIO PRODUCER EDITION
EPSON STYLUS R220 (DISC & PHOTO) PRINTER
Full high quality albums and live show backup tracks produced in my living room from the tracking to the packaging sold exclusively through live shows.
Everything I drop gets radio play, club play, and street play.
(and did I mention......I got groupie hoes..... )

 

[LeeRosario]

U PEOPLE KILL ME JUMPING ON THE BEHRINGER BASHING BANDWAGON
THEY'VE BEEN IN BUSINESS THIS LONG THEY MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT!

Like cloning designs?


Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Behringer, I just have my personal opinion's and choices.


So if Ashley Simpson wants to produce her next "smash" hit on a Behringer, then godsped and bless her little heart.

Although if she was working with me (for the sake of argument), there would be no Behringer in the equation.

That's why this thread is so redundant and undebatable, because it's based on opinion. In the words of Bill Mahr,

"I don't ask that you legislate my opinion".



And on a side note:

i used the laffy taffy reference to show that garbage track & garbage song could still get you #1 spot on the charts

Do you even understand how songs even get to that level?

Cause let me tell you, MTV & BET for industry information is like CNN for stock broker information.

 

[PANTYBOY]

Like cloning designs?


Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Behringer, I just have my personal opinion's and choices.


So if Ashley Simpson wants to produce her next "smash" hit on a Behringer, then godsped and bless her little heart.

Although if she was working with me (for the sake of argument), there would be no Behringer in the equation.

That's why this thread is so redundant and undebatable, because it's based on opinion. In the words of Bill Mahr,

"I don't ask that you legislate my opinion".

I hear u loud and clear but some of these cats just go to the store and buy protools and a triton cause of the name and end up tryin to sell it on ebay
because they heard that that was industry standard. IMHO, most of the indusrty's music sucks so I want to be as far away from that sound as possible. So many people want the gear so-n-so uses and end up trying to replicate that sound when the most fun thing about being an artist is being original. I don't care what they used to get that sound.They already have that sound. I need to make my own sound.
At the same token a lot of people miss out on great products just because someone else advised them no to get it. Thats just like the Industry heads.
they will twll all of us that all of our shit is crap simply due to the fact we made it ourselves, but the minute we gain popularity people will be trying to use the same gear you used.
In addition, so lets say all 60's 70's & 80's music was garbage since 90% of todays technology had not even been fathomed in those times.
But why is it that those are reffred to as the classics....hmmmm
Why is it that most of todays music lack substance.......hmmm
could it be because people focus more on what they are recording with than
the actuall recording itself....hmmmm

 

[PANTYBOY]

Do you even understand how songs even get to that level?

Cause let me tell you, MTV & BET for industry information is like CNN for stock broker information.

At the end of the day when they are fucking everyones biotch!
Have a coast 2 coast hit, major airplay, and more success than we may
ever have...............does that change the fact that they broke those records
no!
do they give a damn.......no!
and most importantly did the people that supported them by buying those ringtones, requesting that song and video, and putting them on top of the charts give a damn what the song was recorded on......no!
are they known in the coast 2 coast commercial music world ....YES!
are you...,..NO!
..............Your Point
(ps i hate that song, its total crap, but it just reinforces my point)

 

[undrgrnd studio]

FOR ALL THOSE WHO DISAGREE
CHECK THIS CLASSIC THREAD
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=48420&highlight=legacy

IT SHOWS NUMEROUS CLASSIC ALBUMS RECORDED WITH JUST RADIOSHACK
$10 MICROPHONES AND 4 TRACK FOSTEX & TASCAM TAPE DECKS THAT
SOUND BETTER THAN YOUR WHOLE DIGITAL/ANALOG SETUP HANDS DOWN!

FACE IT.

THE GEAR DOESN'T MATTER
AT ALL!

ATLEAST TO A REAL MUSICIAN
(MUSICIANS DON'T NEED COMPUTERS) ALL THEY NEED IS A MIC AND AN
INSTRUMENT AND THEIR VOICE

FAKE ASS WANNABES NEED THE LATEST COMPRESSOR/REVERB/HARMONIC EXCITER AND WHAT NOT TO POLISH THOSE TURDS OFF

That simply isn't true. Gear DOES matter. It may not matter to you, and every once in a while an exception overcomes the rule, but in general a $10 radio shack mic is never going to capture the beautiful intricacies of a beautifully played grand piano or a great singer. You will end up with tinny shallow crap. The music may be wonderful, and that's good enough sometimes, but as a consumer I want a good quality recording that will allow me to be immersed in the music. I want to be swallowed up in the sound.

I can overlook a limited recording when there is no choice, like with old Robert Johnson recordings. That's all we have, so we treasure it. But if I could get a hold of a recording by Robert Johnson with the quality of a Beatles record, I would be all over it.

I can even overlook the quality of local band recordings and style specific recordings like early Bright Eyes. But ultimately a good recording with quality gear does matter in the larger view.

I think maybe being into rap, you just don't fully understand the dynamics of sound. The genius of a great recording seems to escape you. Ultimately the music prevails over the recording and gear, that is true, but the better the engineer and the better the equipment, the better the sound. A good engineer can use a $10 radio shack mic like a paint brush, and create an interesting image, but with better quality brushes, paint, and knowledge of composition he can create a masterpiece.

 

[LemonTree]

has DJL stopped taking the medication again?

Recording is all about opinions, opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one...and most of them stink.


A great song recorded on great equipment will always sound like a great song. A great song recorded on crap equipment will STILL sound like a great song......you'll just wish the fidelity was higher so you could see the band play in your head when you close your eyes and be able to tell what kind of amp the guitarist is using or what hi-hats the drummer is using

I for one go with the best equipment I can aford whitch is miles away from top end gear but it lets me record people and represent their music in the highest quality I can. That in turn usualy results in a demo they pass around and at best the'll probably get some live work from it. I don't do this for a living, it's a hobby. I don't charge, you can record here for beer and pizza.

Given the choice of recording on a behringer "mixer" or an SSL console, IF I was a recording artist I know which one I'd chose.



PANTY, you come across like you were born too late for the punk scene in Britain in '76 and too old to fit in now. That's a shame, old punks never die, they just start washing rugularly

 

[LeeRosario]

But why is it that those are reffred to as the classics....hmmmm
Why is it that most of todays music lack substance.......hmmm
could it be because people focus more on what they are recording with than
the actuall recording itself....hmmmm

Reading and rebutal with an open mind:

-Well the fact that something is a classic because of the equipment used is only half complete. I can assure you, that if my uncle recorded "I love Pong" in his basement in the late 70s or early 80s, by social standards, it's not a classic.

-The reasons that most of today's music lacks substance is debatable. You could say that the focus on the music has something to do with it, but again, that's an incomplete statement.


But alright look, I just have one bit of advice:

Whenever you decide to start a debate, do it how the pros do it....lay out your facts on the table before the gavel hits the wood. I think one of the worsts things I could ever see is a debate with no disernable direction. Just like news reporting, make sure you can justify your claims with a few strong facts. Otherwise, you're just ranting and bitching. And nobody will take you seriously like that.

It makes you look educated and it'll help emphazize your point more effectively. Plus you would have learned something new.

Cause maybe it's just me, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're trying to accomplish here. I've worked under some of the worst producers you would never even dream of working with.

But if I can thank them in one aspect, is that they corrected my mumbling impediment by yelling, "what? I don't understand you. What the fuck are you trying to say? Speak clearly or nobody will take you seriously, boy".

A habit that I never struggled with again.


So i guess I'm passing on the information to you


Cheers.

 

[PANTYBOY]

That simply isn't true. Gear DOES matter. It may not matter to you, and every once in a while an exception overcomes the rule, but in general a $10 radio shack mic is never going to capture the beautiful intricacies of a beautifully played grand piano or a great singer

But most of this software and plug-ins end up compressing the dynamics
out of the song anyway so you still end up with a lifeless mix most of the time. (and how do you know what mics they record with anyway, they lie too you know, you wasn't there, it could be a radioshack $10 mic )

I can overlook a limited recording when there is no choice, like with old Robert Johnson recordings. That's all we have, so we treasure it. Thats being biased and partial.
If you can overlook it in his case you can overlook it in any case.(he ain't no better than the next man)
Everyone deserves the same respect.

I think maybe being into rap, you just don't fully understand the dynamics of sound
That has nothing to do with it seeing as most real rap uses samples from other genres music anyway rock,classical,symphonies,blues,etc have always
been sampled into rap songs since the early stages ,bruh!
the better the engineer and the better the equipment, the better the sound
Thats a opinion...yours at that...
words like better , best, etc are opinion based words that describe how YOU feel about it. Me personally I find indie music recorded by themselves on whatever they have sounds better OVERALL in the end.
.
A good engineer can use a $10 radio shack mic like a paint brush.[
So basically, you agree with me, and contradicted yourself at the same time
by disagreeing with me huh........

 

[PANTYBOY]

Cause maybe it's just me, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're trying to accomplish here. Cheers.

I see what you saying, but check this:
A lotta newbies get discouraged because they think that they have to have ProTools or Nuendo, a Nuemann microphone, and some worldclass converters
and shit....and when they look at the price for that stuff .....well.....they give up.
Some people want to do it all themselves from production,mixing and performing the vocals, But if you HAD to have those things it would be a lot less music being made due to the fact it would be so expensive to afford.
A lotta people haere use a $100 version of cakewalk and have songs that probably have gotten regional airplay. But what if they let that "Industry Standard" shit scare them off into being embarrassed to present their material for airplay?
It wasn't too long ago,... (well shit it still is this way) that anybody recording in a homestudio was automatically considered unprofessional. No matter what you use to record. So you should understand. I have witnessed first hand that your music whatever you record with can be as big as you make it.
I have performed locally(regionally) with clearchannel airplay based off one one song I recorded at home in my living room with a B-1 mic and cakewalk.
Made 10,ooo in cd sales and have a nice lil rep around my way so I was posting this thread to encourage the little guy.
Imagine if you exclusively heard laffy taffy at the studio before anyone else,
you would have thought they would not last more than a week, but look what happened.
My setup costed about $1000 and i have put out 4 mixtapes(in retail stores)
I have a fanbase, a mailing list, and regional radio & dj connections down here
and am currently mixing & mastering my first official album and the dynamics
are huge.
So this isn't jus a rant.
This is encouragement for those of us who care about making this music
without breaking the bank. I'm a good engineer tho so maybe thats why
I get these pristine results.

 

[jeffree]

has DJL stopped taking the medication again?

Ah yes, shades of dear old DJL... I'd completely forgotten!

J.

 

[2lim]

Man, I have totally forgotten how fun the old "which brand is better" STYLE of debate was.


I am gonna chuck in my 2 pennies now, cause i am feeling important!

First of all, I wanna hear a mix from PANTYMAN! Just cause putting your mixes where your mouth is, is a good way to PROVE your point.

Secondly I agree and disagree with what our newbie friend is saying.

Yeah, I think you can make decent recording on behringer(and similar) level gear, Ed has proven that with some of his live mixes.

However, Ed is a magician and has skills that many of us lack. Therefore it is simply easier for us to buy some slightly nicer gear to make recording a more pleasurable experience. I find it easier to make music when i don't have to smash the shit out of a track with compression, EQ, reverb etc just to get the sound I want. I prefer having the sound I want, then just slightly touching it up with verb, eq and compression to make it sit where I want it to.

Also there are some things that you just CANNOT do with crappy gear.
First of all, YES there is lots of EQ and compression no matter what, and a lot of dynamics are lost, or at least minimized in many ways. HOWEVER lets say you have a Crappy 10$ radio shack mic, and it doesn't pick up anything below 250hz(exargeration, but this is to prove the point). Now when you are micing a really thumpy kick drum, where the hell do you get that low end from? I agree that if you had a nicer mic, you would modify the sound, but you can't just make low end appear from nothing... and just cause your low end gets compressed, doesn't make it dissappear!!!

Lastly; Will fans realise it the difference in quality... most likely not, will they say "hey that sounds like a behringer pre?" definitely not. However well tracked and well recorded music will just sound more pleasant to an untrained ear. They won't know why they like the sound more, but they will just like it more.


Simon

PS I use behringer, MXL, AKG, Shure, M-audio and Edirol gear. I work full time for 14$ and hour, and pay rent. I also own my own vehicles and pay the ridiculous amount it costs to insure them in Ontario. I am in no way rich nor born into money. I like to record, and buy what I can. I do what i can with what i got, so please don't take shots at me for actually knowing the score when it comes to quality compared to price.

 

[PANTYBOY]

Man, I have totally forgotten how fun the old "which brand is better" STYLE of debate was.


I am gonna chuck in my 2 pennies now, cause i am feeling important!

First of all, I wanna hear a mix from PANTYMAN! Just cause putting your mixes where your mouth is, is a good way to PROVE your point.

Secondly I agree and disagree with what our newbie friend is saying.

Yeah, I think you can make decent recording on behringer(and similar) level gear, Ed has proven that with some of his live mixes.

However, Ed is a magician and has skills that many of us lack. Therefore it is simply easier for us to buy some slightly nicer gear to make recording a more pleasurable experience. I find it easier to make music when i don't have to smash the shit out of a track with compression, EQ, reverb etc just to get the sound I want. I prefer having the sound I want, then just slightly touching it up with verb, eq and compression to make it sit where I want it to.

Also there are some things that you just CANNOT do with crappy gear.
First of all, YES there is lots of EQ and compression no matter what, and a lot of dynamics are lost, or at least minimized in many ways. HOWEVER lets say you have a Crappy 10$ radio shack mic, and it doesn't pick up anything below 250hz(exargeration, but this is to prove the point). Now when you are micing a really thumpy kick drum, where the hell do you get that low end from? I agree that if you had a nicer mic, you would modify the sound, but you can't just make low end appear from nothing... and just cause your low end gets compressed, doesn't make it dissappear!!!

Lastly; Will fans realise it the difference in quality... most likely not, will they say "hey that sounds like a behringer pre?" definitely not. However well tracked and well recorded music will just sound more pleasant to an untrained ear. They won't know why they like the sound more, but they will just like it more.


Simon

PS I use behringer, MXL, AKG, Shure, M-audio and Edirol gear. I work full time for 14$ and hour, and pay rent. I also own my own vehicles and pay the ridiculous amount it costs to insure them in Ontario. I am in no way rich nor born into money. I like to record, and buy what I can. I do what i can with what i got, so please don't take shots at me for actually knowing the score when it comes to quality compared to price.

Well said.
No arguments there.
Keep making that music.
I will post a final mix once I get through with my album and get it copyrighthed. Which should be due around March.
I'll post it in a thread of its own but I already know even if I had album of the year worldwide some of these guys will find something bad to say just to validate their statements.
they might even load it up in soundforge or something and check my levels,
look for wave spikes, meter imbalance, or whatever.
so I'm not just going to throw any thing up just to prove my point at this time
because its not worth it to risk on the net over some people who i prolly never even see.

 

[sile2001]

This is the first time I have ever witnessed a rant that was written completely in Title Caps. That was the wierdest grammar I have ever seen.

I know...I was going to say that the title caps is probably the most amusing thing about this. He actually went to the trouble to capitalize the first letter of every word...wow.

 

[sile2001]

Ah yes, shades of dear old DJL... I'd completely forgotten!

J.

Good ole DJL... I too had almost forgotten. We should hold like a rememberace service or something every so often, with someone posting some quotes from him.

 

[les666paul]

I never wanna hear that line again. Nothing good ever comes after the words "I'll tell you."

i second that, some people are so full of it
like mister pantyboy

 

[pikingrin]

You want my opinion? I'll Tell Ya,























Pantyboy is retarded... this thread is retarded... HA!

 

[reneveah]

"Crappy Gear" or High enbd gear, if you look hard enough and use it right and push the limits, your productions will be fine, in fact, I dont know if anyone knows these names, but take a big Tiesto hot, or an Armin Van Buuren Hit, or in the would of hip hop, some of the latest trakcs such as D4L - Laffy Taffy or In Da Club, or Usher Lil Jon Ludakis - Yeah. Ever downloads just the Soundtracks or get them from Promo CDs? The music is not high quality and I can tell you from experience and proof if you nned it. FL Studio alone, with as $60Shure min form radio shack, you can produce the same sounding song, as we did. I reporuced for fun these songs and they match up pretyy good. Yeah, the synth may be JUST A TAD off becasue of the settings, but thats just the setting, still, to anyone, you would hardly know the difference, and I DO know the industy ises FL ALOT and Taureg and some of these other "low End" programs. FL Studio can do ju7st as much as all the rest, buying extra VSI Effect and INstruments and MIDI devices, and so on you can have 1000s and dallors in FL and do just as good, but the main thing is, you can do well with anything if you know how to use it and have a good mind. Have a listen to this song made ENTIRELY in FL Studio 3, a few versions behind. The vocal track was a bit off but still works and which has been fixed but you get the general Idea that FL and these other small programs can do just as well. Nothing else was used by FL to reproduce this song. We did this ti demostrate in class that you can start you self on this "Cheap" stuff that really is not cheap at all, Take Ablebton Live5, FOr nearly $1000 Fl beats it in what you can do but far for just a few hundred bucks... In this track the bass beat is a little weak, but thats from our error that we corected. Again this song was created as a Demo of what you CAN do with FL and the Promo Disc we get from The record company that contains just the vocal tracks for remix.
http://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=29HBZH6KGKH0A09XLSZRZNJYVU

 

[cortexx]

isnt fruity loops high in vitamins and minerals ?

cant be all bad

 

[LeeRosario]

isnt fruity loops high in vitamins and minerals ?

cant be all bad

It's the sugar that kills ya...