Dongle Crack for SX 2

[Cyrokk]

Xstatic,

the hobbyist in my point of view shouldnt have to pay commercial prices on software, aslong of course that he doesn't intend to pull a fast one and use it for makin himself some money...

Uh huh... and how in the real world will a software complany know a hobbyist isn't "pulling a fast one"? They won't, so your point is realistically invalid.

Hobbyists aren't as serious about music as pros would and most will simply try a program once or twice ... maybe get to use it properly and then move on ... of course there are the ones who will maybe end up in the music industry as a result of being gifted etc etc ... what program are they going to buy then for their studio??? ..answer = what they have been using until now... but now they pay the full price for it as they will be making money off it now , rather than simply trying out something they find very interested in .. understand?

You must not be a hobbyist. Most of the home recording hobbyists I know use their software exclusively. They have one goal in mind: to record music on their computer. They aren't going to accomplish this by using a program once or twice. In fact, I bet they use it far more than pro studios. For example, why would a pro studio use vst plug-in compressors if they spent thousands of dollars on outboard equipment that will sound better and give far more control to the engineer? Most pro studios also don't mix in the box. They pull out each channel from the software and push it into an analog desk. Therefore, they would probably not utilize all the features of software like a hobbyist.

The music business seems to be a little different in a way .. see Java is just as powerful .. actually probably more so, yet its free... there doesn't seem to be a similar option when it comes to music production programs out there...

Actually, you are right, except that the music business isn't a little different in a way. N-Tracks is just as powerful.. actually probably more so, yet its free... and there seems to be similar options all over the place when it comes to music programs out there.. yeah, otherwise.. right on the money!

 

[xstatic]

The thing is, I don't get to go down to my nearest Lexus dealer and tell him, "I only make $20,000 a year and am going to use this car just for fun, so I should get it at 1/3 what everyone else does. Basically, if you want more, pay more, if you want to pay less, then get less. By owning a professional studio I already pay more than everyone else. The hobbyist can go to Guitar Center and buy an 8 channel Behringer preamp for $200. I have to go out and pay $1000 for each channel of mine. This isn't even mentioning the fact the "hobbyist" calss is what is making some of this software more expensive. The Pro studio buy their stuff rather than pirating it. I would bet its the "hobbyist's" that are doing all the pirating which diverts a compnies resources and money towards protecting their rights rather than furthering development and holding costs down which in turn allows our price to be lower. So in a sense, I already am paying more for it.

*Disclaimer* Please, if you are a "hobbyist", do not assume that the above comment was directed specifically at you or that I think that all hobbyists pirate software.

Also, thank you Makaveli for stsing that your post was directed specifically at me because I originally felt like it partyl was.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I don't even undertsand how this is an issue. Morally and ethically it is wrong to pirate software. No if's and's or but's about it. There is no legal issue. IT's ILLEGAL!

 

[playit]

Boingoman, you really hit it on the head. Our society does appear to believe that if they want to try something out, they deserve to, without anything but fleeting interest from their end.

You folks who in the last three pages of posts have argued that you have special circumstances and deserve a copy of Cubase, we've heard you. We just don't agree that Cubase is a right, for you or for anyone. If you think you've said anything else than that, you are mistaken. Every long argument you've written is basically saying that ownership of Cubase is your right.

No matter what justification is given, the world will never agree with you. Those of us who own Cubase legally understood that not just anyone can or should own it. We measured the price, did what was needed to pay it, and got on with recording music.

I fully understand that there are those of you out there who want to get on with recording music. Why do you feel that your curiousity alone earns you the right to do so? You will value it much more when you have to earn it. If your curiousity is actually more than that, if it is true, and it is pure, and recording is your passion, then it will lead you to do what is honest, because you will be honestly willing to pay the price.

Those of you who have not paid the price, who feel entitled to Cubase or whatever software you've pirated, who did nothing more than click your mouse on a couple of buttons, have proven that you have no genuine interest in your music or in recording, because you have not shown with your actions that your interest in either is anything more than a fleeting whim.

And that's what is really sad.

 

[ahuimanu]

See I'm not in the music business myself.. I'm currently working at becoming a programmer and its the same on this side too... I'm currently learning vb.net ok?? same thing .. its over a grand for the microsoft visual studio .net ... so basically I can only learn in class. The course i'm doing is very short and intense so its hard to cram everything that I need into the day . There are student versions of the program but they cost over 300 and I have no money at all right now ... Now if I was able to use the Program fully but only for learning purposes then Microsoft have a better chance of me buying their package when I am later looking to go into the business... I will as a result most likely be moving onto java instead and won't be buying vs.net ... was it really in microsofts best interests to do this??? not really in my opinion.

Holy Mother of Mary Jesus H... Lies, misinformation and an example of the attitudes of select few of whom I teach (been teaching programming for 7 years now at the Univesity Level). First, out of respect, it is possible that you do not live in the U.S. (and thus may be using a dollar whose value is not in parallel to the U.S. dollar) but, for the sake of argument, let's just look at prices in the FIRST PLACE I FOUND IN A GOOGLE SEACH FOR "student discount software" (www.edu.edu). Let's examine these prices in US, Canadian, and Australian dollars (exchange rates as of today):

Microsoft Visual Studio .NET 2003
$99.98 US
$134.63 Canadian
$145.06 Australian

But wait! if you are learning vb.net only (you should really have used C# incidentally), then you could have just gotten that as well:

Microsoft Visual Basic .NET 2003
$59.98 US
$80.76 Canadian
$87.00 Australian

You (who calls others dumbasses) are the dumbass like some (thankfully few) that I teach who begrudge the cost and value of their tools while at the same time hoping to learn that tool with proficiency such that they can make money with their skill. If a skill is highly coveted, then it is generally the case that the practioner of those skills will be required to maintain theirs skills and tools. You are NOT entitled to anything just because "you want to do it." In fact, by way of your admission earlier that "I couldn't be bothered to read all the posts" indicates you are one of the short-cutters I sometimes am saddled with teaching. THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS!

In fact, the Op-Ed in the beginning of the July 2004 Sound On Sound talks EXACTLY ABOUT THIS - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul04/articles/leader.htm?session=ca7dd94e4d05f3340a077a2d73cdecd9

Read it and take heart.

To top it off, you then go spouting off BS prices without even any rudimentary research.

The music business seems to be a little different in a way .. see Java is just as powerful .. actually probably more so, yet its free... there doesn't seem to be a similar option when it comes to music production programs out there...

I'll give you a free one-way ride on the clue train...

Java is a development platform and language without a major supporting IDE (well, not true if you consider NetBeans and/or Sun One Studio). With VS.NET, you are paying to use a slick and integrated IDE/Development environment combined inextricably with .NET-able languages (vb.net). Considering student discounts as low as the first one I found, if you can't handle that price, then GET OUT NOW and forget about becoming a programmer. Your ethics suggest you'll likely do half-assed jobs the rest of your career (or maybe you'll get an extended pass on that clue train and prove me wrong). In any case, professions don't need the short-cutters - audio engineering included.

I don't give two shits if you flame me for this or whatever, if you wanna play with the BIG BOYS, you are gonna have to use the BIG BOY'S TOYS or change your game. The market drives which tools we use and which are in fashion. In the audio world, Pro Tools rules, but you can learn much of what you need on cheaper alternatives - as with programming, the general and basic skills transfer quite readily. So, you are making a good choice with Java, you can port much of that know-how later. Likewise, use Cubase SE and port those skills later - same difference.

The general point is: why do you childishly insist on using the big shiny toy as a up-and-coming beginner when it is obvious that many of the lesser "training" and "starter" toys teach the appropriate fundamentals. After all, your argument could be fundamentally mapped to this:

"To each according to his needs and from each according to his abilities"

This is a principle tenet of communism and free markets just don't adhere to this - did you pay attention in history or economics?

To further confound your arguments, the makers of the BIG SHINY TOYS HAVE recognized the power of hooking you early and DO OFFER student discounts that are significant. It would seem they do want you at a price significantly reduced.

Nobody cares what your intended use is, the price for a ride is what the price is and most of these companies HAVE recognized the need for varied pricing structures to accomodate your VERY CONCERNS!

I can't ride on an airplane across the country for cheaper just because I want to fart around in L.A. for awhile no more than the guy who has to go to LA for a funeral, a business trip or any other reason. If we wanna ride, we pay the price. Software somehow feels like a different commodity just because it is less tangible and has next to no replication costs associated with it. However, just as much work went into making software like Cubase as would perhaps be the man hours it takes to pull of my fictitious flight to L.A. - yet we think that different somehow.

In a word - your arguments as just as lame as the rest and are either proposing a socialist economy (which is an alternative) or just plain thwarting of the rules. Again, if you don't like these rules you can either opt for the political process or resort to revolution.

Buck up and own up to the value of your chosen tools or select an option that fits your budget and lifestyle - it is REALLY THIS SIMPLE.

 

[Chriss]

right on ahuimanu...
and furthermore... college students get visual studio for FREE! along with a wide range of other microsoft products...

 

[vestast]

Very nice rant ahuimanu.

But I think Sun Microsystems might argue with you about that Java thing......

 

[Makaveli Smith]

read it and take heart...??

thats visual basic.net not the visual studio...

go do some real research ... it costs anywhere between $1200 and $700ish.... if you do see it cheap , then its a pirated copy or 2nd hand ... simple

 

[Chriss]

thats visual basic.net not the visual studio...

go do some real research ... it costs anywhere between $1200 and $700ish.... if you do see it cheap , then its a pirated copy or 2nd hand ... simple

you still get a friggin' student discount... more than half the original... and that's still no fucking excuse... you're counting on using this to make money, right? well you have to SPEND fucking money to MAKE money...
grow up...

 

[Makaveli Smith]

hahah

hmmm,

read back a bit and that was my point to a previous poster .... the argument has been twisted arounda bit though I have no problem spending money on software that you will be making money with .. I totally agree with it and think that commercial software should be very expensive. It's just I'd like to see functionally unlimited packages being released to people learning (not neccesarily students) the package. Limit the user to creating programs or whatever for commercial gain... There are already so many people ripping off software that I don't think this would have an impact on the genuine people buying the commercial edition... whereas it might take away a certain % of the people who are downloading the packages illegally and convert them into a small sum sale... of course you will always find the type of person who never intends to pay for software ... you can't change them but I know personally that I would buy the full visual studio commercial package if I see myself making money from it. The fact remains whether I am competent enough to write commercial packages with it though and since I am unable to get my hands on the full version for the moment , I find Java easier on the pocket ... and yes I do intend using an IDE of course , netbeans looks ok...

We have fallen off topic here alright but I think that piracy could be knocked on the head with companies taking a new look at how they market and distribute their products... as i said before you will always have the idiots who think they can use pirated software for commercial gain but they do eventually get caught anyway ... it is in the companies long term gain to attract as many "learners" as possible aslong as they have a view to buying the commercial package.

 

[boingoman]

We have fallen off topic here alright but I think that piracy could be knocked on the head with companies taking a new look at how they market and distribute their products... as i said before you will always have the idiots who think they can use pirated software for commercial gain but they do eventually get caught anyway ... it is in the companies long term gain to attract as many "learners" as possible aslong as they have a view to buying the commercial package.

That's what demos are for........

 

[Makaveli Smith]

yes bingoman

you are right ,

but unfortunetly we have fallen off topic here ... the demo idea would i guess apply to cubase and the likes but not the software package I was refering too.. as the learning time would be much longer .....
the water is gettin muddied up a bit too much really...

 

[ahuimanu]

you are right ,

but unfortunetly we have fallen off topic here ... the demo idea would i guess apply to cubase and the likes but not the software package I was refering too.. as the learning time would be much longer .....
the water is gettin muddied up a bit too much really...

Mak,

your tellin' me to "do my research?" puh-leeeze...

I did your research for you ... I found you prices that are FAR LESS EXPENSIVE at a student discount. I am well aware of the FULL prices, but let's stick to the frabric of your argument: free or deeply discounted for learners. I gave you this information.

DID YOU READ THAT PART? LOOK AGAIN! FULL VS.NET FOR $100 or so CLAMS! $700 - $1200 vs. $100 - that is a SERIOUS DISCOUNT.

In fact Microsoft is SO HEAVILY prostituting themselves to woo students such as yourself AWAY from the alternatives (Java being a great one), that they are practically giving it away at the university I teach at. They are even willing to hire what they call "student ambassadors" to spread the "good news" of their gospel. Approach them about it and learn more here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/academic/

My point, still, is that alternatives to the grab-take exist. Many people (mostly those under 30 these days) just think it is all out there to be grabbed just because it can be grabbed - this is not going to sustain us and will simply force us into a wolrd like "Minority Report" - awful.

The principle of the arguments conducted so far is that a learner should get their software for free or at a reduced price - in your case, I demonstrated that. You DO NOT HAVE TO PAY $700 - $1200 for vs.net. This is directly mappable to the topic.

Ask the programmers in the western world who have lost thier jobs - programming is tough and it is even tougher to protect the final product. This stuff doesn't grow on trees.

you are right Mak, the water IS muddy and I (and others) are here to purify. I am no Saint, but I sure as shit and not going to abide by "dude, where can I get a crack", "I want the cool tool but can't afford it", "I am ENTITLED" shit that has transpired during the course of this thread.

Man, I wanted a lot of shit growing up and had to pass, wait or sacrifice to get it. I'd far rather have $$$$$ '57 Gibson Les Paul than my average Epiphone knock-off, but thems the breaks. Ya think maybe if I appealed to Gibson on your grounds "you aren't pricing this well enough for me to get in on the bottom as a learner so I can make the big bucks like Jimmy Page man" that they'd hand over the goods?

hmmmm?

Well, actually Gibson's answer is "yes, mr. ahuimanu, we can accomodate you [read: we want your business for life and for you to PAY FULL PRICE FOR THE TOP-SHELF ITEM after you'd run through the "starter" packages], here's our Epiphone model." See the picture?

 

[Codmate]

Wow - I go away for a week and this is still going on...

The fact that you guys think I'm in any way inconsistent shows that you haven't been reading my posts properly. You need to go back and re-read what I've been saying.

Your knee-jerk reactions seem to take precidence however.

Here are a few examples:
I've been accused of pirating software even though I stated repeatedly that I have not done so.
It's been said that I stated pirating software was OK in all circumstances. This is simply not the case.

All you guys are interested in doing is bashing your straw men for whatever reason. Go ahead - but nothing you have said so far will change my mind as you have not once attacked my actual arguments in anything like a convincing fasion.

The fact remains that educational versions of quality recording software are still too expensive for the majority of students. It may be considerably cheaper in some cases - but that doesn't mean it's in the reach of students - who you seem to think are very well off (some cultural difference between the US and UK maybe - many of our students are 'impoverished').
In civilised countries we have our tuition fees paid for us and all are free to go to college or university - even the very poor

I guess the culture in the US of 'equal opportunities for those that can afford it' seems to be prevailing here.

You won't even be reading (even if you are looking at the words) this far probably as I'm quite sure many of your brains are currently short-circuiting with the pat phrases you use to convince yourselves of your moral superiority; and there is obviously no way to convince you that software piracy can be justified in certain circumstances.

Bear in mind I find your intollerance and knee-jerk reactions at least as disturbing as you find my 'justification of stealing'. In your world only the rich could ever progress in society as there would be no benefit system, no free childcare, no free nothing. Luckily you guys don't rule the world and sometimes people can get something for nothing. This is not always a bad thing.
For instance - I'm quite willing to support the National Health Service through my National Insurance (an extra tax here in the UK) even though I'm pretty healthy and have never used it. I'm also fine with the idea of giving up a large proportion of my taxes to benefits - even though benefit fraud is rife and some benefit fraudsters make more money from benefits than I do from my job!

I guess this would drive you lot over the edge if you can't stand paying a little extra for your software due to piracy (if this is even true - I've never seen it proven persoanlly).

Why do I not mind giving this money away? I believe that things like benefits, helping out people who are worse off than you, making their lives better, helping them improve themselves, making them happier; is worth it. It makes for a stronger, happier more civilised society. The measure of a society is in how it treats it's lower echelons.

It is this same feeling that makes me perfectly happy for poor students to pirate music software. They learn, they improve, they are happier, society is better off. I really can't see the downside.

Oh yeah - I *might* have to pay a few extra pounds for my software. Big fat hairy deal. I can afford it. The software companies can afford it. The students can't.

Oh yeah - I'm also planning to contribute to Audacity:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

I'm not going to tell you how as if you find out who I am, judging by your massive over-reactions to my (actually quite tame) opinions you'll probably track me down and lynch me

"OMG - people giving music software away for nothing!
How can they - they must be crazy or something!
How come they are not out of business!?
They are not a business?!
They *give away* their source code!
Does not compute!!!!"
* Head flips back to reveal a fizzing robot of right-wing capitalist confusion *

And that's my last word on this.
Have fun in your incredibly selfish worlds.

BTW - ever thought about charging for the advice you give on these boards?
You shouldn't give away something for nothing you know!

 

[xstatic]

An incredibly selfish world is a world in which people believe that they are "entitled" to something just because they are not as well off as someone else. I have no problem with someone giving something away for nothing, so long as it is theirs to give.

If I want a car to get to school, or work, or wherever I am going, should I go out and steal one? Maybe intead I should take the bus. That would be a little cheaper, and I would still achieve what I need to. If I can't afford that, than maybe I should ride my bike. Once again, still getting the same result. If I can't afford a bike, than maybe I should walk, yet again, still achieving my goal. If I can't afford shoes to be able to walk, than maybe I should actually go out and get a job.

In no way does a poor student stealing software make society stronger or happier. None of us have the right to decide whether or not the software companies "can afford" for people to steal their software. Just like I don't have the right to decide that you really don't need something that is yours which in turn makes it OK for me to steal it.

Codmate, you stated...
"Why do I not mind giving this money away? I believe that things like benefits, helping out people who are worse off than you, making their lives better, helping them improve themselves, making them happier; is worth it. It makes for a stronger, happier more civilised society. The measure of a society is in how it treats it's lower echelons."

I agree with you completely on this. However, treating the "lower echelons" right does not ever, nor will it ever, include allowing them the right to steal what they deem necessary or feel that they deserve. At least not in any sort of functioning and civilised society.

You also said...
"In your world only the rich could ever progress in society as there would be no benefit system, no free childcare, no free nothing."

I never heard anyone say nothing should be free. Also, in a society where people are treated differently based on their perceived "status" they have less of a chance to progress in society. Progressing in society is a function of dedication and persistance in which a person exceeds theirs and others expectations by progressing and having success through proper, moral, ethical, and LEGAL means. Stealing my way to the top does not make me succesful and is certainly not a way to show progression within a society.

ANYBODY can afford to get some sort of software solution the legal way. Instead of spending 20 or 30 or 40 hours searching for, downloading, and using cracked software. GO GET A JOB and PAY for it like the rest of us. With my solution there is no argument. If you have time to find and use the software, then you have time to work instead until you have bought it. Any STUDENT who needs a certain piece of software will also have access to a lab where than can use it legally. You know, just like the other students who can't afford it do!

Oh yeah, there is also even some REALLY cheap, and I believe even some free software that is still pretty powerful. There really isn't actually anyone out there the HAS to have Cubase, but can't afford to spend $100 on SE.

 

[boingoman]

In your world only the rich could ever progress in society as there would be no benefit system, no free childcare, no free nothing

Quite a leap you're making there. You are kind of assuming that because people don't like software piracy they are against all these other things. And comparing pirating a piece of software to a basic human need is just..... I don't even have words for it.

IMHO if a school doesn't provide the students with the tools the student needs, or access to those tools, the problem is with the school. Especially if one is paying to go to a specialized school, such as for recording or programming. And I bet there are a lot of kids who don't pirate and get by just fine.

Nice slam against all the people who post hard-earned knowledge here BTW.
Many of them are experienced professionals who give away their years of knowledge for free.

My biggest problem is the attitude. Even if treated with kid gloves, every person I've seen has come back with "Fuck you, help me out anyway." Too stupid to see the way the wind is blowing. And they can't even be bothered to look through the old threads to see if their question has already been asked. If this guy Hector had bothered to look around he would have seen the attitude here towards pirating, and not got his ass chewed in the first place.

If people don't like the reaction they get, they are always "free" to look elsewhere for help.

 

[Bass Master "K"]

Hey Codmate, since you have been gone for a week, you probably missed this one which completely addresses your incorrect assertion that college students can't afford software. I'd love to see you refute this one...

I can't even begin to copy and paste all the bs that you are spewing here Codmate, so I'll just do this freestyle...

First you say that the academic software is NOT the same. Now you say it's the same but it's still too expensive, unless I provide proof. Allright, the proof is that I work part time at an educational institution. I paid $220 for VST32 when it was their top of the line Cubase product. That's right....the 25%-30% figure I gave up front. Not $450, not $400...you just make this sh*t up and it's so funny because you seem to want to attack everyone else about accuracy and proving stuff.

You get all pissy with Bear talking about how your not just talking about educational students....now your just talking about educational students...hmm....

You are also wrong that Cubase can not be resold legally. The moderators on the CUBASE FORUMS, have repeatedly answered that question. The Cubase's ownership can be transferred one time, and if the original owner contacts Steinberg to let them know, the new owner can register the product and be able to get support and upgrades as if he were the original owner. Yet again, you seem so picky about facts but are so quick to spout off lies and suppositions.

Your assume joke....ya, I saw that Benny hill episode too...nice and childlike.

You miss the point with my friend...he really couldn't afford that program any more than a kid in college could, actually less, he has a family to feed and provide for. But yet, he WORKED for it. Something you are apparently against thinking that a kid in school could do. I have no idea what your droning on about working for free and getting discounts on recording time from nice people has to do with anything. My buddy wanted it, and he worked out a way to make extra money to get it. It just happened to be by doing some small recording projects, it could have easily have been by working an extra job for a few weeks.

Here's the best part of your now new arguement, carrying the jockstrap of college students everywhere:

Student can afford to go to college
Student can afford books for college
Student can afford food while at college
Student has alcohol and weed budget
Student has car and gas money
Student can go to movies
Student can go to concerts
Student can take his woman out so he can get some
now this is the best part....don't miss this....
Student has enough money for a computer that can run Cubase
Student can afford a soundcard with which to make fair quality recordings
Student can afford the speakers to listen to the music with
Student can afford CD burner with which to burn mixdowns
Student can afford stereo with which to listen to his projects on
Student can afford the instruments to record with
.........
but yes, sadly student can't afford the $200 for the program he wants to record with. Student can't possibly work a little for it. Of course student can't save for it. There really is no other option but to steal it.

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!! Nice argument there Codmate

and btw...laws are not arbitrary, we do not get to pick and choose which ones we think are morally right or wrong and abide only by the ones we think should apply to us. If we did the result would be anarchy because everyone would do as they see fit. If you have a problem with stealing software being classified as a crime...then take your wordy self and work to change the law.

You are a well spoken person, but if you are going to try to back up a position you need to do it without making up facts, telling outright lies, and then try to backpedal your way back into an argument when you get called on it.

 

[turnitdown]

This thread would have been great when I was forced to write a paper in college about Socialism (I'm opposed...).

It would have saved me time, and allowed me to use MY LEGALLY PURCHASED MUSIC SOFTWARE more often.....

 

[playit]

Wow - I go away for a week and this is still going on...

. . .

I'm not going to tell you how as if you find out who I am, judging by your massive over-reactions to my (actually quite tame) opinions you'll probably track me down and lynch me

"OMG - people giving music software away for nothing!
How can they - they must be crazy or something!
How come they are not out of business!?
They are not a business?!
They *give away* their source code!
Does not compute!!!!"
* Head flips back to reveal a fizzing robot of right-wing capitalist confusion *

And that's my last word on this.
Have fun in your incredibly selfish worlds.

BTW - ever thought about charging for the advice you give on these boards?
You shouldn't give away something for nothing you know!

Codmate, I think you replied in the wrong thread. Please post on-topic next time.

 

[Codmate]

Hey Codmate, since you have been gone for a week, you probably missed this one which completely addresses your incorrect assertion that college students can't afford software. I'd love to see you refute this one...

Even though I said I wouldn't post any more on this, I will counter this as the response is very quick and easy.

The software is still too expensive for students (in my country anyway) to afford as the majority live on a student loan which is very small.

The post you quote assumes many things about students and makes some gross assumptions about their lifestyles (they all smoke weed, can afford to go to movies concerts etc.).

In my experience students can afford to do none of these things.
When I was a student back in the mid-90's I was living off £6000 a year. After rent, all my money went on food.

Colleges in this country are hideously under-funded and cannot afford the resources for students to learn properly. I needed to learn Adobe Premier for my desired career and had a total of 2 days in my entrie three years of college with the software due to limited resources.

Sorry if this blows away your preconceptions about students and colleges - maybe in America where they have to pay tuition fees they *are* all rich and colleges are all amazingly well-funded.

It's simply not the case in other countries though. And don't forget, we have to pay import taxes on the software on top of the already-extortionate prices.

I've also noticed that equating software piracy with stealing a physical object is creeping back in to the debate. This analogy is just plain wrong.

If I went to a car dealership and *cloned* (using an (as yet un-invented) matter-cloning device) a Ferrari to drive away - that would be a correct analogy.

 

[Bass Master "K"]

The software is still too expensive for students (in my country anyway) to afford as the majority live on a student loan which is very small.

I'm so very sorry. I didn't realize that college students in your country can't work a few extra hours while they went to school. You live in a most interesting country indeed. I guess the view that americans are lazy must really be off because most of the college students I know/knew work in addition to going to school and are willing to bust their ass for a few extra hours for something they want.

Colleges in this country are hideously under-funded and cannot afford the resources for students to learn properly. I needed to learn Adobe Premier for my desired career and had a total of 2 days in my entrie three years of college with the software due to limited resources.

?? Colleges where students can't learn ?? Your country is getting more interesting by the quote. This sound like something you should bring up with legislators and educational reformers. If what you said is true, then why bother going to college. I'm certianly not going to waste time at a school where I can't learn. Why would you?

f I went to a car dealership and *cloned* (using an (as yet un-invented) matter-cloning device) a Ferrari to drive away - that would be a correct analogy.

I thought you were going to scream if another car analogy came up, and now you bring it back up? LOL, by the way nothing you said counters the fact that stealing whether it is physical property or intellectual property is wrong. That's why they call it STEALING!

You've tried Codmate, I will give you credit for that. But your hiding of your eyes to the truth of stealing is not going to make your argument correct. Good luck in the future and I hope that if you ever come up with such a useful computer program that people are willing to pay for it, and you decide to charge for it to compensate you for your time and your work as well as to better your family and the lives of your loved ones and pay for future devolopment of your program, that people don't steal it thereby letting you actually have a career in doing what you love.

Peace.