Blue Bear Sound
New member
It, quite frankly, is staggering the number of people so lacking in any social values that they continually try to rationalize this particular aspect of modern technology..... unbelievable... 
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boingoman
New member
toyL said:
Apparently since this ass needs a dongle crack it ain't that easy to give away. Why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FREE. If it was supposed to be free, they would have made it free. And if you give something away, you give up the right of ownership. If you take your son's underwear he freezes his balls off til you give them back or he buys a new pair.
Dongle man, I assume, is going to try to make a living in the business. If he runs across someone who needs his services, is he going to donate his time because they are intent on making a commercial, not music? I'm pretty sure he would cry "foul" if they stiff him on his bill for that reason. "Sorry, dude, we're making a commercial, music really isn't our thing."
Like I said, the knowledge is already common. He is free to learn how to program and write his own software. There's no big secret. I'm sure it wouldn't take more than eight or nine years and a few million dollars to figure it out.
I guess you are right. It's so much easier to steal it. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Where do you live? I've got a dongle crack for door locks and am looking for a few things and you seem to be pretty flexible on this whole ownership thing..........
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xstatic
New member
Its almost sad that this thread is still going. Those people that are pirating and using cracked software already know its wrong. They do it anyway and will continue to do so no matter what you or I think about it. They feel like the world owes them something just because they are here. The way see it is that Karma will get them in the end. Hopefully in the form of something to do with Law Enforcement and large monetary chunks. I guess some people take this whole "America is a free country" thing for granted by feeling like its OK to only obey those things they choose to. Lucky for them I choose to obey the fact that murder is illegal, and rape and many other things. Its nice to know though that if I change my mind I can just come back to this thread and there are plenty of reasons given why I don't have to obey certain things and then I can justify my disgusting actions.
Myabe if Karma really does work, they will all grow up to be software programmers who design some really cool things but end up filing bankruptcy because a bunch of immature little brats hijacked their work.
Myabe if Karma really does work, they will all grow up to be software programmers who design some really cool things but end up filing bankruptcy because a bunch of immature little brats hijacked their work.
toyL
Member
...steinberg customer service doesn't give a fuck what your name is or where you live, and why should they?...do you seriously believe they're worried that a handful of oscars are gonna take them to the bank?...their products have produced billions of dollars in profits, and they're quite confident in their ability to continue to produce great products at reasonable costs to both a multitude of loyal customers, like myself, as well as a great many potentially new customers for a very long time to come...when the time comes that the knowledge and expertise of advanced software writing becomes "common-place" there will still remain a huge market of folks who will continue to buy off-the-shelf rather than spend their time away from the golf course or family outings in order to write their own programs...while I'm predicting the future here I may as well state that I can further imagine a time, eventually, when "super-genius" engineers will develop tools that will function on a genius level of "intelligence", and that these tools will eventually become as available as public library books...the age of "information" will have then evolved into the age of "genius", and illiteracy programs will have been replaced by genius programs...the only downside to all of these higher-orders of thought will be experienced by those who would cling to their worship of the almighty dollar and a system of "currency" that has always been despotic and capricious--i.e. our treasury dept has never printed and released enough cash to match the amounts of "interest" being charged on bank loans or govt loans--which means that each time a borrower makes a payment on his loan the interest portion literally compounds into a deficit or "shortage" of cash...this shortage of available currency inevitably leads to higher prices over some period of time for nearly all staples; such cost increases are certainly not because the gallon of milk you purchased today for $2.79 is somehow more nutritious or qualitatively "better" than the gallon of milk you purchased maybe 10 years ago for $1.39...I'm sure by now many of you are wondering--WTF?!!!...well, it's like this--because there is a shortage of cash, LITERALLY, there are lots of folks out there who are willing to SHARE and GIVE to those who, for whatever reasons, are experiencing the brunt of living day to day, paycheck to paycheck, without enough cash to pay for health insurance, a decent roof over their head, reliable transportation, nutritious food, utility bills, birthday presents, a new pair of work-boots, book-rental fees for the kids, a decent x-mas, shots for the family dog, a trip to Dairy Queen, etc....before you label someone a "thief" for using software that they didn't purchase you may want to consider the simple fact that one cannot exactly "steal" that which has been "given" to them...of course, I realize that the letter of the law pretty much covers "complicity"...yet, who here can honestly say that they've never looked the other way having knowledge of "criminal" activity?Blue Bear Sound said:...just call Steinberg Customer Service. They'll ask for your name, number and address and I'm quite sure they send someone out to you to help you get set-up.
...excuse me for being so long-winded, but the shear number of replies and critical thinking found in many of them, not to mention all the high-court activity since the days of 8-track technology would seem to indicate this issue isn't exactly as simple or straightforward as some would have it.
Cyrokk
Farce of Nature
toyL said:
Uh, no. Shrinkage of the money supply indicates that there is less money to go around which means that businesses will get less customers which means that in a free market, prices will decrease. Inflation is ALWAYS caused by an increase in the money supply, a fundamental economic and banking concept.
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boingoman
New member
xstatic said:
Hear, hear.
Outta here.
Thief.
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xstatic
New member
Wow ToyL, spoken like a true modern day Robin Hood.....
Or else you were recently and unhappily laid off from your job.
Or else you were recently and unhappily laid off from your job.
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NYMorningstar
Recording Modus Operandi
I think you missed the boat on this because Bear's remark was nothing but sarcasm aimed at Hector who was looking to steal the software. Or do you seriously think Steinberg doesn't care if it's pirated?toyL said:
Instead of being so long-winded, take some of that misplaced aggression and be kind enough to use proper punctuation like capitals and paragraphs to make things a little easier on us here to read your views. While you're at it maybe take a course in Economics and learn what inflation is and then you can stop clouding this issue with bullshit and make it a little simpler and straightforward for those of us who want to know the truth.toyL said:
vestast
Gassy Member
Think it's ok to steal and distribute software ? Maybe you should read this:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/wooSent.htm
"4 months in prison and ordered to pay $15,641 in restitution....."
http://www.cybercrime.gov/wooSent.htm
"4 months in prison and ordered to pay $15,641 in restitution....."
toyL
Member
...can't own up to the robin hood image, but yeah, I left my position with (and without?) dod a little over a yr. ago due to a garden-variety brain disease.xstatic said:
Bass Master "K"
New member
I like the link vestast. It makes the point of the legality of all of this nicely.
toyL
Member
...great advice!--no name-calling, no threats, very civilNeil Ogilvie said:
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xstatic
New member
On this one ToyL I agree with you 110% 
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Makaveli Smith
New member
dumbasses
alot of dumbass remarks here... especially at the start. Guys starting on their high horses cause they are running a professional setup and hence making money with which they can buy the best software with... Sure cheaper versions are available and I don't exactly condone piracy but I tihnk it's always gonna be an attraction to the hobbyist to have the best toys, and if you can take something for free then you usually will.. of course to use pirated software in a commercial environment is scandalous... this is what drives the price of software up , not hobbyists who simply download the program because they can ... don't use it very much then its out of mind. These are people who would not have bought the software it the first place.
I think maybe a way to combat this is to give products for non commercial use for very very little money .. say cubase sx2 , full featured for less than 100... People would then probably buy it rather than crack it.. The problem then is whether you would have studios buying and using that package ???
but if they did that they they could also be simply using cracked versions anyway ... so the law upholding studios would still be paying what they are now and possibly a vast number of the people who pirate the software today might just be convinced to buy the package .. if they like it and want to use it commercially... buy it full price.
alot of dumbass remarks here... especially at the start. Guys starting on their high horses cause they are running a professional setup and hence making money with which they can buy the best software with... Sure cheaper versions are available and I don't exactly condone piracy but I tihnk it's always gonna be an attraction to the hobbyist to have the best toys, and if you can take something for free then you usually will.. of course to use pirated software in a commercial environment is scandalous... this is what drives the price of software up , not hobbyists who simply download the program because they can ... don't use it very much then its out of mind. These are people who would not have bought the software it the first place.
I think maybe a way to combat this is to give products for non commercial use for very very little money .. say cubase sx2 , full featured for less than 100... People would then probably buy it rather than crack it.. The problem then is whether you would have studios buying and using that package ???
but if they did that they they could also be simply using cracked versions anyway ... so the law upholding studios would still be paying what they are now and possibly a vast number of the people who pirate the software today might just be convinced to buy the package .. if they like it and want to use it commercially... buy it full price.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Yet another sheep spouting the same tired shit to rationalize s/w theft..........
Scary.......
Scary.......
Chriss
Jitens Half Brother
well, people could go and friggin' buy cubase SE... being a home user, it provides far more power than you'll ever need...
and it costs 120 bucks... go figure...
and it costs 120 bucks... go figure...
vestast
Gassy Member
I'm not running a professional studio and I bought it.....
Huh.. Another dumb justification wasted I guess..
Huh.. Another dumb justification wasted I guess..
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xstatic
New member
Dumbass? WOW
This is just insane. Dumbass remarks? This is almost getting amusing. I run a professional studio. So what? There, there is my high horse. Why should I have to pay more for the software to do the same thing? The fact that I do own a studio does not mean I have the money to go out and just buy all the latest greatest software. In fact, it probably means that I don't. Don't forget I still have to pay for room acoustics, microphones, outboard equipment, monitors, instruments and amps, cables, other kinck knacks to keep artists happy etc... In fact, I think the home hobbyist has MORE money to spend on software than the Professional Studio's. The only difference is that in certain situations we HAVE to spend the money to stay current and competitive. In fact, I think that the Pro Studios should get the FULL software for free. I can't begin to tell you how many Cubase software packages, 2 channel preamps and cheap condensors I have sold for Guitar Center because clients came in to do some quick acoustic/vocal tracks and were blown away by what the software does. There have been many cases in which I have reccomended that my clients do exactly that becasue I felt like they were spending too much money paying to have things recorded when they could lay better tracks at home (better becasue they would have the time and the scheduling to work whenever THEY wanted, and at no cost).
Now lets take the home hobbyist. He says they "it's always gonna be an attraction to the hobbyist to have the best toys, and if you can take something for free then you usually will.." This simply isn't true at all. Only the ones that are lacking in certain ethics and morals will do this. Also, they aren't the ones flooding this board with questions and taking peoples time. If they truly downloaded it, opened it a few times and then deleted it, then I wouldn't care. However, they are probably less than 5% of the downloaders.
Next statement........"of course to use pirated software in a commercial environment is scandalous... this is what drives the price of software up , not hobbyists who simply download the program because they can ... " And this isn't a dumbass remark? This is downright wrong. Pirated software is pirated software is pirated software is pirated software......NO MATTER WHERE IT IS USED! Secondly, The vast majority of Steinbergs sales is to, yup, you guessed it, the HOME USER. Not the pro studios. First, there is limited base of professional studios, secondly, most of them have gone the full on Pro Tools route. Noe of their systems are pirated becasue the software is free and because of strict hardware limitations.
Nor fo this silly statement....."I think maybe a way to combat this is to give products for non commercial use for very very little money .. say cubase sx2 , full featured for less than 100... People would then probably buy it rather than crack it.. The problem then is whether you would have studios buying and using that package ???" There is a fully functioning version for just over $100. It just doesn't offer as many features. If the "home" user needs more than that, than they certainly aren't the 3 time hobbyist you described earlier. Also, people that priate software pirate cheap software packages all the time. Having Cubase SX2 be $100 would maybe stop about 10% of the piraters, but most would still choose to steal the software (because they obviously have no ethical qualms about doing so). Next Steinberg would have to stop doing updates and R&D for future programs because they wouldn't be able to afford it. If Steinberg offers Cubase SX to "Home" users for $100, than they nedd to do it for "Pro" users too.
All of this is without even getting into the fact that your home users who are stealing software are also stealing business from those of us who do pay for the software and are trying to make a living in this cutthroat industry.
But I guess I am just a dumbass because I run a professional studio, in a professional environment, with professional clients, on professional gear.......that I busted my ass to PAY for.
This is just insane. Dumbass remarks? This is almost getting amusing. I run a professional studio. So what? There, there is my high horse. Why should I have to pay more for the software to do the same thing? The fact that I do own a studio does not mean I have the money to go out and just buy all the latest greatest software. In fact, it probably means that I don't. Don't forget I still have to pay for room acoustics, microphones, outboard equipment, monitors, instruments and amps, cables, other kinck knacks to keep artists happy etc... In fact, I think the home hobbyist has MORE money to spend on software than the Professional Studio's. The only difference is that in certain situations we HAVE to spend the money to stay current and competitive. In fact, I think that the Pro Studios should get the FULL software for free. I can't begin to tell you how many Cubase software packages, 2 channel preamps and cheap condensors I have sold for Guitar Center because clients came in to do some quick acoustic/vocal tracks and were blown away by what the software does. There have been many cases in which I have reccomended that my clients do exactly that becasue I felt like they were spending too much money paying to have things recorded when they could lay better tracks at home (better becasue they would have the time and the scheduling to work whenever THEY wanted, and at no cost).
Now lets take the home hobbyist. He says they "it's always gonna be an attraction to the hobbyist to have the best toys, and if you can take something for free then you usually will.." This simply isn't true at all. Only the ones that are lacking in certain ethics and morals will do this. Also, they aren't the ones flooding this board with questions and taking peoples time. If they truly downloaded it, opened it a few times and then deleted it, then I wouldn't care. However, they are probably less than 5% of the downloaders.
Next statement........"of course to use pirated software in a commercial environment is scandalous... this is what drives the price of software up , not hobbyists who simply download the program because they can ... " And this isn't a dumbass remark? This is downright wrong. Pirated software is pirated software is pirated software is pirated software......NO MATTER WHERE IT IS USED! Secondly, The vast majority of Steinbergs sales is to, yup, you guessed it, the HOME USER. Not the pro studios. First, there is limited base of professional studios, secondly, most of them have gone the full on Pro Tools route. Noe of their systems are pirated becasue the software is free and because of strict hardware limitations.
Nor fo this silly statement....."I think maybe a way to combat this is to give products for non commercial use for very very little money .. say cubase sx2 , full featured for less than 100... People would then probably buy it rather than crack it.. The problem then is whether you would have studios buying and using that package ???" There is a fully functioning version for just over $100. It just doesn't offer as many features. If the "home" user needs more than that, than they certainly aren't the 3 time hobbyist you described earlier. Also, people that priate software pirate cheap software packages all the time. Having Cubase SX2 be $100 would maybe stop about 10% of the piraters, but most would still choose to steal the software (because they obviously have no ethical qualms about doing so). Next Steinberg would have to stop doing updates and R&D for future programs because they wouldn't be able to afford it. If Steinberg offers Cubase SX to "Home" users for $100, than they nedd to do it for "Pro" users too.
All of this is without even getting into the fact that your home users who are stealing software are also stealing business from those of us who do pay for the software and are trying to make a living in this cutthroat industry.
But I guess I am just a dumbass because I run a professional studio, in a professional environment, with professional clients, on professional gear.......that I busted my ass to PAY for.
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Makaveli Smith
New member
xstatic reply
Xstatic,
I only read a tiny bit of yer last post. Look the reason I think you should have to pay more is because you are using cubase sx to make money. It's your profession... My point is (and I did read that post from someone saying SE is only 120 bucks?? wow .. thats what im talkin about).... the hobbyist in my point of view shouldnt have to pay commercial prices on software, aslong of course that he doesn't intend to pull a fast one and use it for makin himself some money...
Hobbyists aren't as serious about music as pros would and most will simply try a program once or twice ... maybe get to use it properly and then move on ... of course there are the ones who will maybe end up in the music industry as a result of being gifted etc etc ... what program are they going to buy then for their studio??? ..answer = what they have been using until now... but now they pay the full price for it as they will be making money off it now , rather than simply trying out something they find very interested in .. understand?
See I'm not in the music business myself.. I'm currently working at becoming a programmer and its the same on this side too... I'm currently learning vb.net ok?? same thing .. its over a grand for the microsoft visual studio .net ... so basically I can only learn in class. The course i'm doing is very short and intense so its hard to cram everything that I need into the day . There are student versions of the program but they cost over 300 and I have no money at all right now ... Now if I was able to use the Program fully but only for learning purposes then Microsoft have a better chance of me buying their package when I am later looking to go into the business... I will as a result most likely be moving onto java instead and won't be buying vs.net ... was it really in microsofts best interests to do this??? not really in my opinion.
The music business seems to be a little different in a way .. see Java is just as powerful .. actually probably more so, yet its free... there doesn't seem to be a similar option when it comes to music production programs out there...
Xstatic , I wasn't saying that your position in the argument was a dumbass one .. I just thought that some of the smart remarks to the guy who i bet in my opinion would not pay more than $100 for cubase SX as he would only be looking into music production as an interest at the moment, well I thought they were childish really.
Xstatic,
I only read a tiny bit of yer last post. Look the reason I think you should have to pay more is because you are using cubase sx to make money. It's your profession... My point is (and I did read that post from someone saying SE is only 120 bucks?? wow .. thats what im talkin about).... the hobbyist in my point of view shouldnt have to pay commercial prices on software, aslong of course that he doesn't intend to pull a fast one and use it for makin himself some money...
Hobbyists aren't as serious about music as pros would and most will simply try a program once or twice ... maybe get to use it properly and then move on ... of course there are the ones who will maybe end up in the music industry as a result of being gifted etc etc ... what program are they going to buy then for their studio??? ..answer = what they have been using until now... but now they pay the full price for it as they will be making money off it now , rather than simply trying out something they find very interested in .. understand?
See I'm not in the music business myself.. I'm currently working at becoming a programmer and its the same on this side too... I'm currently learning vb.net ok?? same thing .. its over a grand for the microsoft visual studio .net ... so basically I can only learn in class. The course i'm doing is very short and intense so its hard to cram everything that I need into the day . There are student versions of the program but they cost over 300 and I have no money at all right now ... Now if I was able to use the Program fully but only for learning purposes then Microsoft have a better chance of me buying their package when I am later looking to go into the business... I will as a result most likely be moving onto java instead and won't be buying vs.net ... was it really in microsofts best interests to do this??? not really in my opinion.
The music business seems to be a little different in a way .. see Java is just as powerful .. actually probably more so, yet its free... there doesn't seem to be a similar option when it comes to music production programs out there...
Xstatic , I wasn't saying that your position in the argument was a dumbass one .. I just thought that some of the smart remarks to the guy who i bet in my opinion would not pay more than $100 for cubase SX as he would only be looking into music production as an interest at the moment, well I thought they were childish really.
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boingoman
New member
It seems like a lot of people start complaining about their "rights" as soon as they have to work hard and save money to pay for something, and can't have what they want when they want it. I'm not saying you are complaining, Mak. Just that there are some things you can't just "check out" as a passing interest without paying a price. If I wanted to "check out" being a mechanic, by some of the above logic I should get a discount on tools and equipment because I'm just a hobbyist. And pros should pay more for the same tools, because they are pros. I'm not a pro. I buy Craftsman instead of Snap-on. I bought ramps instead of a lift.
IMHO it is a symptom of a dilettante society that thinks it is entitled to access to everything now, without waiting or working.
Your situation at school seems kinda weird. If you aren't getting the access you need maybe it's time for a different school? Just my .02.
The music biz is really kind of a niche market. Most people-especially people who complain how expensive it is, don't understand that. It's miniscule compared to a lot of other market sectors. It's highly specialized. It's only in the last few years that regular people have had access to inexpensive gear. 15 years ago, a set-up that you can get today for $2500 that fits in a bedroom would have cost tens of thousands of dollars and required a whole room to fit it in. People just expect to have access to pro equipment for no money. And don't understand why if they can get Windows for $100 they have to pay so much more for good recording software. Prices come down as the market grows, but somehow people see software as being all the same. They use the "software doesn't cost anything" argument, which just isn't true. And think they should get the same thing as the pros.
I used to work at a music store and people would complain that $200 was an insane amount of money to spend on a Fender guitar package that comes with an amp and a guitar. I can only imagine what they would say if their kid wanted to play cello, where $5000 is entry-level.
There is plenty of free and very inexpensive recording software out there. Let the hobbyist use hobby gear.
IMHO it is a symptom of a dilettante society that thinks it is entitled to access to everything now, without waiting or working.
Your situation at school seems kinda weird. If you aren't getting the access you need maybe it's time for a different school? Just my .02.
The music biz is really kind of a niche market. Most people-especially people who complain how expensive it is, don't understand that. It's miniscule compared to a lot of other market sectors. It's highly specialized. It's only in the last few years that regular people have had access to inexpensive gear. 15 years ago, a set-up that you can get today for $2500 that fits in a bedroom would have cost tens of thousands of dollars and required a whole room to fit it in. People just expect to have access to pro equipment for no money. And don't understand why if they can get Windows for $100 they have to pay so much more for good recording software. Prices come down as the market grows, but somehow people see software as being all the same. They use the "software doesn't cost anything" argument, which just isn't true. And think they should get the same thing as the pros.
I used to work at a music store and people would complain that $200 was an insane amount of money to spend on a Fender guitar package that comes with an amp and a guitar. I can only imagine what they would say if their kid wanted to play cello, where $5000 is entry-level.
There is plenty of free and very inexpensive recording software out there. Let the hobbyist use hobby gear.
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