Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[dkerwood]

Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. Sometimes the laws are wrong. Morel's is a better argument.

Disagree. Morality is relative. Legality is objective, making it a better argument.

 

[Toker41]

There is a local law on the books in my town. It is illegal to walk your dog on Sunday. I'm not making this up, it's a fact. This law goes back a good number of years, and is not enforced. However, I guess it's wrong to walk my dog on Sunday? Marijuana prohibition laws are based on biased, religious opinions, and not on medical fact. 72 million Americans admit to using it, making the laws ineffective, and showing that they do not want the law. So, it's wrong to smoke it because it's the law? Before 1929 when it was made illegal, it wasn't wrong?
Laws often have little to do with right and wrong.

 

[danny.guitar]

There is a local law on the books in my town. It is illegal to walk your dog on Sunday. I'm not making this up, it's a fact. This law goes back a good number of years, and is not enforced. However, I guess it's wrong to walk my dog on Sunday? Marijuana prohibition laws are based on biased, religious opinions, and not on medical fact. 72 million Americans admit to using it, making the laws ineffective, and showing that they do not want the law. So, it's wrong to smoke it because it's the law? Before 1929 when it was made illegal, it wasn't wrong?
Laws often have little to do with right and wrong.

You're right but that's completely irrelevant because stealing is not just illegal it's also morally wrong.

Anyway this is my last post in this thread because everything's been said already about 30 times.

 

[dkerwood]

You're right but that's completely irrelevant because stealing is not just illegal it's also morally wrong.

Says who? Says you?

Who is the authority on the morality on pirated software? You have a problem with it, and I don't. What makes you right and me wrong?

If we go by the rule of majority, I'd argue that pirated music is therefore right because I suspect that the majority of people who have access to pirated music download it no problem. Most will say "it's wrong", but will turn right back around and betray their words with their contrary actions. I don't run across many people who say, "Yeah, I never download music from Limewire or Kazaa. I buy everything on iTunes." No, more people just download what they want. Heck, people borrow a CD from their friend, rip it to their iPod, and then pat themselves on the back for being "legal".

Heck, even the few iTunes nuts I know will download from P2P what they can't find on iTunes - their justification? "If I could find it to buy it, I would."

Morality is an empty argument, unless you have a concrete authority declaring what it "right" and "wrong".

 

[dkerwood]

Furthermore, Danny, you don't seem to have a problem with stealing when it's Behringer that does it. You still support and buy their product. :-D

 

[Toker41]

This is why I tried to put the "religious", and "moral right and wrong" thing aside, and just look at the business end. Funny, people that argue their "Good vs. Evil" end of it so passionately seem incapable of discussing any other issue involving piracy, when piracy has so many different levels of issues. I guess some people just suffer from tunnel vision.
I stated before.....EVERYBODY sins. There is NOBODY that has NEVER stolen ANYTHING in their lives. There is NOBODY that has never lied, or cheated. There are just some people that discard their justified wrong doings as "lesser evils", and discard them from memory, or file them away as unimportant. Nobody should be throwing stones.


Also, the whole Behringer "law suit" thing was over ONE product. They didn't do anything that other companies don't do. Backwards engineering is common practice. I see it all the time. Behringer just didn't put enough effort into appearing to "hide" it on ONE mixer. There are some very good Behringer products, as well as some bad. Propaganda is the word of the day on this thread. When a company puts out a product that does exactly what yours does, and sells if for 1/4 the price what is there for a company to do? How about we sue them, then make sure it's in the press, and give the cheaper company a bad rep. I have personally worked with large well known companies that I have personally seen do these kinds of things.
Meanwhile, you Mackie users can keep paying 4 times the amount for your boards, after Mackie started using the same manufactures, and same parts from over seas, as the company you believe to be thieves, in their boards 2 years ago without passing any savings onto the consumer.

 

[88fingers]

I'll skip the moral debate and just answer the question..

I've bought a majority of mine (Native Instruments, various samples, Cubase SE3, Sibellius), but I do have an old version of Cool Edit Pro on there that I'm sure is not very legit. Of course, since I don't use CEP anymore, I may as well delete it, so after today, I'll probably have a 100% legit system.

 

[cmhansen]

Well, I just bought Sonar 6, so I thought I'd vote in your little poll here and say I always buy my stuff.

I thought when I read the results of the poll it would be about a ten to one ratio to people who bought their stuff and those who, well hmm, downloaded it. I'm kind of dismayed at the results, although I guess I really shouldn't be. Guess I'm just old fashioned that way.

I must admit, I do download some things from the internet, but they're always freeware things. If they do ask for a donation or something, I will give some money if the music amounts to anything. Hate to use a product that someone else has worked on and not give them something if I'm getting something in return.

 

[Zed10R]

This is why I tried to put the "religious", and "moral right and wrong" thing aside, and just look at the business end. Funny, people that argue their "Good vs. Evil" end of it so passionately seem incapable of discussing any other issue involving piracy, when piracy has so many different levels of issues. I guess some people just suffer from tunnel vision.
I stated before.....EVERYBODY sins. There is NOBODY that has NEVER stolen ANYTHING in their lives. There is NOBODY that has never lied, or cheated. There are just some people that discard their justified wrong doings as "lesser evils", and discard them from memory, or file them away as unimportant. Nobody should be throwing stones.

On one hand you are right...if you look at it with the tunnel vision you accuse others of having and ignore the bigger picture. It is true that every human that ever existed has been less that 100% honest. On the other, it is a weak, immature, egocentric, and small mind that will use that fact to justify stealing.

 

[dkerwood]

It is true that every human that ever existed has been less that 100% honest.

Save for one. ;-)

 

[Zed10R]

Save for one. ;-)

OK!! You started it!!

Do you actually believe that there was ever a literal "son of god" walking around on Earth?

 

[mrT]

OK!! You started it!!

Do you actually believe that there was ever a literal "son of god" walking around on Earth?

To be honest I don't think that it makes one bit of difference. Would his words have any less meaning?

 

[dkerwood]

Zed - Yes, I do.

mrT - If He wasn't who He said He was, He's a liar or insane. I'd say that affects the integrity of His message.

Now, let's get this train back on track before somebody notices and closes the thread!

 

[Robert D]

mrT - If He wasn't who He said He was, He's a liar or insane. I'd say that affects the integrity of His message.

Now, let's get this train back on track before somebody notices and closes the thread!

How about a tie in? Something to the effect of Love thy neighbor, buy his software, don't steal it. Kind of goes with that pesky commandment - You shall not steal.

BTW - If Charles Manson said love your neighbors and treat each other kindly and with respect, that's still good advice for mankind.

 

[mrT]

mrT - If He wasn't who He said He was, He's a liar or insane. I'd say that affects the integrity of His message.

We're all God's children. Take it however you want. It's a case study in how the Dogma of Christianity over powers the message of Jesus.

 

[mrT]

How about a tie in? Something to the effect of Love thy neighbor, buy his software, don't steal it. Kind of goes with that pesky commandment - You shall not steal.

not even close in the biblical sense. Stealing software is only taking something from someone IN THEORY. so Thereticlly you are stealing an idea not an object. And I would be 100% sure that the ten commandments weren't thinking about software. More of a "don't take your neighbors shit, make your own." Not a "don't take a copy of a program that isn't actually a physical thing cause it might deprive your neighbor of income he might possibly have made."


EDIT: and here goes my rep...

 

[MessianicDreams]

I think the poll speaks for its self really.

 

[Robert D]

not even close in the biblical sense. Stealing software is only taking something from someone IN THEORY. so Thereticlly you are stealing an idea not an object. And I would be 100% sure that the ten commandments weren't thinking about software. More of a "don't take your neighbors shit, make your own." Not a "don't take a copy of a program that isn't actually a physical thing cause it might deprive your neighbor of income he might possibly have made."


EDIT: and here goes my rep...

Sorry, but that's a load of crap. If I have software you want, there's no difference whether you steal the software, or pay me and then steal the money out of my pocket afterwards. The moment you take the software, it's not "income I might possibly have made", it's income that was stolen from me.

 

[MessianicDreams]

Sorry, but that's a load of crap. If I have software you want, there's no difference whether you steal the software, or pay me and then steal the money out of my pocket afterwards. The moment you take the software, it's not "income I might possibly have made", it's income that was stolen from me.

Sorry, but that's a load of crap.



Say I rip Waves Diamond pack. I'm a poor studio who - at this point would NEVER pay the few grand or wtv Diamond's worth. So if I do rip it, how are you losing money exactly? It's not as though i'm stealing it as opposed to buying it...

i'm not depriving you of income...

 

[Jim Marquard]

This is a difficult issue... Right now as a student I don't have enough money to buy all the programs I am using.

But TexRoadkill is right: even if you forget the moral question, a crack is never going to give you complete stability. So once I am graduated I really intend to buy some extra software.

Cracks though have the small advantage that it makes people familiar with the program. My MIDI teacher always told me Cubase is one of the most popular sequencers because of the early cracks of the program. Cracks can make you familiar about a program before you intend to buy it, and can point out the pro's and con's. I think anyone really serious with recording buys his computer software.

Thing is BrettB, as a student you can buy many student versions of software. These are usually the full version but with manuals on CD-ROM or on the website. But they are usually at least 1/3 the cost--and quite legal. It's been a while, but I think adobe Audition is under $150. For those of you who aren't students, many of you have family members who are--even children. I have two daughters in high school band so, in theory, I could easily buy them student versions of software I need. All legal, moral, and the R & D of the software still getting copywrite payments.

There is always Ebay as well. Nothing wrong with getting pre-owned software. If the seller stil has it on their computer it is THEIR moral delimna, not mine.