Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[Toker41]

Nowhere did I say it was a rationalization for stealing. You are looking for something that isn't there.

I'm simply stating that piracy does not impact sales as much as the public is lead to believe. We have already established that stealing is wrong.

Try to keep up.

 

[legionserial]

Jesus Christ is this thread still going?

Oops....

 

[acidrock]

Nowhere did I say it was a rationalization for stealing. You are looking for something that isn't there.

I'm simply stating that piracy does not impact sales as much as the public is lead to believe. We have already established that stealing is wrong.

Try to keep up.

So these companies all have software protection schemes and dongles or whatever for no reason at all?

Even if the impact is not as great as stated,there's still an impact.Exactly how much theft is acceptable?

Chances are if it's your business a lot less than if it's someone elses I would guess.

 

[Toker41]

So these companies all have software protection schemes and dongles or whatever for no reason at all?

Even if the impact is not as great as stated,there's still an impact.Exactly how much theft is acceptable?

Chances are if it's your business a lot less than if it's someone elses I would guess.

Read up a few post. The reasons for the "dongles" was already stated.

If the theft is not impacting sales (since these thieves would not have paid for the software anyway), it is an excuse to over charge the honest consumers.

Studies show "no measurable impact on sales".

 

[acidrock]

Read up a few post. The reasons for the "dongles" was already stated.

If the theft is not impacting sales (since these thieves would not have paid for the software anyway), it is an excuse to over charge the honest consumers.

Studies show "no measurable impact on sales".

At the end of the day,it's the company who produces the product that dictates what that product costs and how they want to protect it.Just because a person has the opinion that it's overpriced doesn't give them the right to steal it.There are free software programs out there to be had,but what the heck,why use a crappy free program when you can steal a really good one and use the excuse of being overcharged as the reason for theft. I guess two wrongs do make a right.

I think there are lots of things that are over priced,as a consumer I speak with my pocketbook and don't buy them.

Because software is so easy to steal it makes the urge to rationalise theft that much stronger.

 

[Toker41]

Man. Hard to get you to understand something. I NEVER justified a reason for stealing, and never gave an excuse for it, nor did I ever say that a company can't charge what they want. I simply stated that the piracy is more of a profit to large software companies than a loss, and that is why it is a hype word with very little done to combat it. A consumer is only willing to pay a certain price for an item. However, consumers are uneducated consumers, You can charge a little more, and get the consumer to blame "pirates" with the help of some media hype. The consumer blames the big bad evil of "thieves", and fully believes the inflated cost of the product is justified, and entirely the fault of sinful low lifes, and feels bad for the company that now has their money. I would imagine that there might be a few tax benefits to claiming a loss while making a profit, also. It's a great set up, why would the large software companies want to combat it? Can't tell you how many times I hear people blaming the high cost of software, and CD's on piracy. Also can't tell you how many times I've seen media reports about how many millions of billions of trillions the industry claims to lose as a result of piracy when the numbers just don't support it. Fact is, it's simply imposable to prove that a certain amount of money is lost each year over sales that might, or might not have happened. I'm really surprised by how few people I've ever seen even question this. Most people just take it at face value as truth. You can't seem to even get yourself to even consider it. Most common reason given by people that use pirate software "I do it because I can't afford it". The people that can't afford it are NOT the target market, thus there is no loss, as these people wouldn't buy it anyway. How can there be predicted sales for people that can't, or wouldn't pay for it?

People are sheep.

 

[acidrock]

If you think it cost too much,don't buy it,simple as that.Why it costs so much really has nothing to do with it.I gladly fork over cash all the time to software companies.

Any product you buy has insurance,theft,waste costs associated with it.

I don't consider software theft as hype at all,just part of doing business.but if I wanted to steal some it would sure be a convenient excuse.

Man. Hard to get you to understand something.

That's a two way street bro.

 

[Toker41]

Here, let me try it in a language you might understand......


....Baaaaaa Ba Ba Baaaaaaaaa.



How many times do I have to explain that I'm not using pirated software, nor do I believe stealing isn't wrong???

The debate isn't about me thinking it cost to much.

I'm done trying. Like I said...

....sheep.

 

[acidrock]

Here, let me try it in a language you might understand......


....Baaaaaa Ba Ba Baaaaaaaaa.



How many times do I have to explain that I'm not using pirated software, nor do I believe stealing isn't wrong???

The debate isn't about me thinking it cost to much.

I'm done trying. Like I said...

....sheep.

When I use the word "you"
I'm speaking in general terms,not adressing you specifically,or should I say "ewe"?

 

[dkerwood]

Another great story of the manufacturers' strong stance against piracy:

Microsoft's Xbox sales only really took off when hackers discovered that the system was really nothing more than a small PC. They discovered that they could throw in a bigger hard drive, and with a little new software, games could be copied to that hard drive. To keep up a face, Microsoft threw in an easily avoidable "anti-upgrade" upgrade in their next shipment, but the obvious was still staring them (and everyone else) in the face.

If you want to stop people from swapping stock computer hard drives, stop using stock computer hard drives. Do like Nintendo had started nearly twenty years prior and design proprietary parts. All it takes is one more pin and a stock hard drive wouldn't fit. Even if that pin didn't do anything. For that matter, why not just hard wire the drive to the motherboard? But no, Microsoft continued to produce an easily hackable product.

Why? Because it was good for sales. People started flooding to these Xboxes because they could now carry their entire game library with them in a compact gaming console. In addition, they could rent games and "own" them nearly for free. Microsoft did nothing to stop even the most basic teenager from hacking their flagship console because THEY STILL HAD TO BUY THE CONSOLE.

I dunno. I figure if anything, software piracy should be boosting software sales. If I get to try out HappyTracksPro 2 for three months for free, when I go to the store, I'm a lot more apt to pick up HappyTracksPro 2 DELUXE EDITION, because I'll presumably get some things that aren't available online... plus I'll breathe a sigh of relief when my copy is legal.

 

[Reilley]

If someone makes a product, no-on has any right to rip it off for any reason. All this justification - and that's exactly what it is - is so much sophism. If your not going to buy it, mind your own business. If it is your opinion that a Mercedes-Benz or Ferrari has too much profit built into it, that doesn't give you any right to steal it. Mind your own business and stop being cheap.

The internet has exposed how many people are crooked when there is no chance of being caught, and it's a pretty high percentage, which should be no surprise to anyone who knows anything about human nature.

 

[Toker41]

I don't' think anybody has justified stealing, here. I only see examples of theft posted, and examples of why big business doesn't want to fight it. You are reading way to much into it. Jump down off you bible, stop judging people, and understand we have only listed facts, not excuses. It seems to me the some people just want to point fingers, call people evil, and feel they are better than others. To me, that is worse than stealing.

 

[acidrock]

I don't' think anybody has justified stealing, here. I only see examples of theft posted, and examples of why big business doesn't want to fight it. You are reading way to much into it. Jump down off you bible, stop judging people, and understand we have only listed facts, not excuses. It seems to me the some people just want to point fingers, call people evil, and feel they are better than others. To me, that is worse than stealing.

So if someone calls someone a thief,it's worse than stealing?

 

[Toker41]

That is not what I said.
To me, judging others is worse than stealing, or at least just as bad. If those people would read the bible they use as a soapbox, they would see where it says "judge not".

 

[dkerwood]

I only see examples of theft posted, and examples of why big business doesn't want to fight it.

In some cases, it's almost as bad as leaving the doors unlocked, windows rolled down, keys in the ignition, and then complaining when somebody steals the car...

 

[Robert D]

Toker, this isn't about passing moral judgement on people, it's about the common sense rules that need to exist in a fair and just society. A society where no one can be expected to follow any rules for fear of being judgemental is a dysfunctional society with no social fabric to hold it together.

 

[Toker41]

We have already established that stealing is wrong. To debate is the industries profit on it, and why it's not really combated.

 

[joel77]

I always buy software. Besides the fact that stealing is wrong, how else can a software company afford to continue putting out the wares that we need and want?

Joel

 

[TragikRemix]

this old thread huh?

you should all leave it alone, its not worth getting into the argument.

piracy is illegal, therefore there is no justification.

if i say hey, i am smart enough to write this program and you have to pay if you want to use it, you have two options; pay and use it, or dont pay and don't use it. otherwise you are STEALING it. which is ILLEGAL.

ok, im done.

 

[Toker41]

Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. Sometimes the laws are wrong. Morel's is a better argument.