Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[Toker41]

You assume I give a rats ass about the company...

...I don't. I am not on their payroll, and I would rather spend my free time other ways. Why would I want to go thru all of that effort, when all I want to do is record some music? Besides, they don't spend any time asking people they catch with illegal versions why they did it....
...they just throw them in jail.
They will either be smart enough to figure out how to better avoid P2P file sharing, or they die trying to stop it. Business is not the survival of the fittest, but rather the survival of the smartest.


Also, N-tracks demo sucks as much as any other demo. I bought it because for $40 is was no big loss if I didn't like it. Turns out that I love it.

 

[DaveO]

You assume I give a rats ass about the company...

You assume incorrectly.

And since we're making assumptions about each others assumptions, it seems like you assume that I do. In none of my points did I ever state or imply that most companies do give a rat's ass when it comes to customer service. For the record, I'm right there with you on that one. Some do, but the majority don't. However, the only things I've ever based my points on are 1) that piracy is, at least for now, illegal and 2) that every single argument citing corporate greed and lack of giving a damn about the customer is at best a weak rationalization rather than a valid argument.

If we were talking about something tangible like a car, a comb, a grill, a chair, or anything else you can put your hands on we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's because the rediculous majority of the people defending piracy don't have the balls to put that arument into action by regularly stealing whatever they want (I purposely said "want" because you'd have a hard time convincing me that SONAR, Cubase, et. al. are things that ANYONE needs) from a store and putting themselves at real risk for getting caught. If they did that, they either better like taking it up the pooper or learn to like it real fast, because they'll be doing an awful lot of it pretty quickly. The ONLY reason we are having it is because it's just too fucking easy to pirate software so people do it. Then they look for ways to rationalize the act after the fact.


EDIT - Damn, I just noticed we're now close to the bottom of the 18th page! I'm kind of blown away that this thread is growing faster than the naked woman thread in the Cave!!!

 

[earthboundrec]

I have a pirated copy of The Foo Fighters new cd. I also own the cd though. I went to rip the tracks onto my iPod and it tried to intall some shit into my registry for copy protection. I was like, "fuck that". That's taking it quite a step too far, so I went and downloaded it instead as to not have a big corporation intrude into computer. I emailed BMG and told them what a farce their copy protection is, and I no longer buy any cd's that have that type of protection on them.

 

[Toker41]

Not everything that is illegal is immoral. However, that being said...

I did not download pirated software to steal from any company. I simply did it to make sure I was getting the most for my money. The problem I find in the good ol' U.S.A. is that everybody has their hands in your pocket, but NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR. So I simply checked out all my options to make sure I was getting my moneys worth. I did not steal by doing this, and thus P2P saved me (the consumer) from paying for something that didn't live up to the price. Again, I paid for what I liked, and got what was best for me. This was illegal, but not immoral. We do not need the law to know right from wrong, and I do not feel what I did was wrong.


On another note....
....I just realized that the BBE plug-in I use is a copied version that I made from a friends legal copy so that I might try it out a few months ago. I use so many plug-ins that I really did forget where I even got it until he reminded me after reading this thread. I believe the buying price is $199. I do like the program, yet can not afford this program this close to Christmas. I will buy it after the first of the year, because it's a good proggie, even though I think it could be a little cheaper. However I will probably still use it until then. Since I intend on buying a legal copy (and I honestly will do this, because I don't like to use pirate proggies on anything I actually "produce" for others to hear), am I still evil? Am I still a thief? Is a lesser evil still an evil? My intentions are not to steal it.

 

[DaveO]

I think I'm done on this topic for a while. I think I typed more in the last day or two than I have in the last month or two.

Toker, I don't agree with your position but I appreciate you sticking to the topic and not reducing it to name calling and lobbing insults like many others have.

 

[Emusic]

and this escapes me....

The day everyone tries to fuck each other without paying for it, prostitution will have ended, and there wont be software houses - coz noone buys the software. Luckily we still pay for your copies ^^

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

You assume I give a rats ass about the company...

...I don't. I am not on their payroll, and I would rather spend my free time other ways. Why would I want to go thru all of that effort, when all I want to do is record some music?

I also don't really care about the company for its own sake.

I *do* care about havng good software. I buy the software I like and feel very good about supporting the company that makes it- so they can coninute making it better and I can continue to benefit from their efforts.

Piracy is like a parasite that has the potential to kills its own host. Too much piracy and not enough sales...no more software. No more piracy. Notice I said *potential* and not that it IS and WILL kill the company.

Piracy in itself doesn't really bother me as long as the companies that make the software I like and its competitors are still viable. What does bother me is people who think they've got a good, moral, justifiable reason to steal things and DON'T intend to buy the stuff they're stealing when they can afford it. To me that seems shortsighted and selfish.

-Chris

 

[bdasilva]

Free and legal

Audacity is free and getting better every day.

 

[Robert D]

Dear thread,
Die already.

respectfully,
me

 

[geet73]

Bumping it sure helps.

 

[XLR]

I like my neighbor's Mercedes convertible. I've decided to steal it.

I'll do it when no one can see me because, well, you know how anal and unreasonable the legal system is. The car will be automatically duplicated at no cost to my neighbor by his zero deductible insurance policy. So no one is hurt, right?

I'll have to keep it in my garage and not drive it, but hell that's OK. I want it anyway.

If this isn't similar to software copyrights, please explain why.

Tim

 

[Toker41]

Most cracked versions of software are buggy, and it catches up to the user after a bit. Usually after you have a considerable amount of time on the song. I download pirated software so that I might try it. If I like it, I buy it. If I don't I get rid of it. Every demo I have ever tried has sucked, so this is the only real way to check it out before I drop $500 on it.


On a somewhat related note: A new Harvard study shows that illegal downloading of music mp3's is NOT impacting CD sales to ANY measurable degree. It states that most people downloading music would NOT buy the CD even if they could not get the music for free. It goes on to state that illegal downloading actually HELPS CD sales, stating that many people will buy a CD after downloading one or two songs that they like from it, where they would not have if they had not heard the songs.

I know only this....if I don't hear the songs....I'm not buying the $100 concert tickets, $50 T-shirts, or $30 programs!

 

[Robert D]

Most cracked versions of software are buggy, and it catches up to the user after a bit. Usually after you have a considerable amount of time on the song. I download pirated software so that I might try it. If I like it, I buy it. If I don't I get rid of it. Every demo I have ever tried has sucked, so this is the only real way to check it out before I drop $500 on it.


On a somewhat related note: A new Harvard study shows that illegal downloading of music mp3's is NOT impacting CD sales to ANY measurable degree. It states that most people downloading music would NOT buy the CD even if they could not get the music for free. It goes on to state that illegal downloading actually HELPS CD sales, stating that many people will buy a CD after downloading one or two songs that they like from it, where they would not have if they had not heard the songs.

I know only this....if I don't hear the songs....I'm not buying the $100 concert tickets, $50 T-shirts, or $30 programs!

Wow, that's the first time I've heard a somewhat legitimate plus from song downloading. Most bands do make the lions share of their money from concerts, not CD sales. It's still wrong, and I've still never done it, but at least there's a possible positive outcome for the artist.

 

[Robert D]

Bumping it sure helps.

That's weird, the thread was highlited, supposedly meaning a new post was made, and other times I've noticed threads don't get highlighted, when someone did post since I last looked. Crap! I raised the smelly dead to say hurry up and die.

 

[seryozha]

HA! A mere 19 pages? the Cubase Forum has almost double your page count on the EXACT same issue. Let the lesser one die, please?!?!?!

 

[cultureofgreed]

I like my neighbor's Mercedes convertible. I've decided to steal it.

I'll do it when no one can see me because, well, you know how anal and unreasonable the legal system is. The car will be automatically duplicated at no cost to my neighbor by his zero deductible insurance policy. So no one is hurt, right?

I'll have to keep it in my garage and not drive it, but hell that's OK. I want it anyway.

If this isn't similar to software copyrights, please explain why.

Tim

There is a big difference because your friend owns his car and if he wanted too could repaint it, modify it, or change it in any way he sees fit because he owns it. With software this is not permitted because you never actually own anything accept an empty license that can gives all the immunities and protections to the vendor and all the costs and risks to the consumer.

Thus to make your analogy correct, your not stealing his car because it never belonged to him even though he paid for it. In reality the car belongs to Mercades and they can come and take it from him, or you if you "buy" one, at anytime and without cause. They can change the type of gas it use and even make it not driveable on the road without warning or renumeration to the consumer.

This may not give you the right to steal it, but don't think that anyone else but Mercades owns this analogical car.

 

[sloom]

Ad Nauseum...

I work in construction, and the prices some contracting co.'s charge for their work is insane. I suspect that most pretty large-scale operations do the same. Flavio A. (FAsoft/n-Track) seems to work at a full clip, and I could believe he puts out more effort than most employed software engineers at these big companies, and charges a nominal price. Over a period of several days, look at the n-Track web-site and see the 'New Builds' added to the list...

I think the stuff (not n-Track) is generally more expensive than it needs to be. It's cheaper than hardware/outboard gear, so that's the bargain. But, really- even so, I think it's a bit of a gouge. Maybe the logic is, "If it costs at some dear level, it's presentation says 'Desirable'".

I'll believe that there are a lot of folks who'll use cracks to learn, or until they can afford to buy the thing. There are others who adamantly feel it's ok to continue using 'em. There are groups who put the stuff out. They're not going to bother me, personally. But I'd feel cheated and ill-used if I were in a studio, paying money for some guy's work, and found he had 'downloaded' software. I'd pack up and split, and not pay him. I'd also tell two friends, 'cause he's enough of a crook to try and get over on me.

Agreement on this: If you're making a living (or something like one) working in music production, there's no reason to not use software (and all the other gear!) you've paid for. Some guys are using n-Track, and they do some fine work. Get what you can afford and deal with it.

 

[usdn rep]

Not everything that is illegal is immoral. However, that being said...

jesus christ.......I thought I was the only one who thought like that

 

[sloom]

The Law and You

jesus christ.......I thought I was the only one who thought like that

No way! Laws can't be perfect- they're an attempt to make people do the right thing. They're general, covering a lot of ground and speaking to a population-at-large, so they can't be 'specific to an application'!, i.e., one individual's own specific situation.

"To live outside the law, you must be honest"
-Bob Dylan.

Doesn't mean to say it's good to break the law (read: "Pirate" software). It only means that you don't live by the letter: You live by your conscience! That's why these folks don't bother me.

I think there are 3 or 4 other people around who know this... !

 

[usdn rep]

No way! Laws can't be perfect- they're an attempt to make people do the right thing. They're general, covering a lot of ground and speaking to a population-at-large, so they can't be 'specific to an application'!, i.e., one individual's own specific situation.

"To live outside the law, you must be honest"
-Bob Dylan.

Doesn't mean to say it's good to break the law (read: "Pirate" software). It only means that you don't live by the letter: You live by your conscience! That's why these folks don't bother me.

I think there are 3 or 4 other people around who know this... !

Well then, we agree, live by your conscience......Not the law.....Thats my point......