Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[fraserhutch]

So my original statement was merely meant to show my puzzlement about why the consumer (you) is so eager to be judge, jury, and executioner toward another consumer when they see wrong, yet so willing to turn a blind, non-caring eye toward the Industry for which they so quickly defend?

They're not consumers. They're thieves. And who said we're defending the industry? Just another riduculous statement that has NO BEARING on the discussion.

fraserhutch....threads evolve as any conversation would. This did not take it off topic, you are simply small minded, and suffer tunnel vision. Also, you seem to have some "control issues", along with denial, and delusions of grandeur.

Actually, you're quite the small-minded little prick, who is so quick to throw around insults. You toss in unrelated argument to obfuscate the fact that you have no argument. Tunnel-vision? delusions of granduer? please.. Where did you get these, you're favorite comic book?

Yes, I can point fingers at thieves. You may not like it, but I can.

What a jerk.

 

[Toker41]

They're not consumers. They're thieves. And who said we're defending the industry? Just another riduculous statement that has NO BEARING on the discussion.

Actually, you're quite the small-minded little prick, who is so quick to throw around insults. You toss in unrelated argument to obfuscate the fact that you have no argument. Tunnel-vision? delusions of grandeur? please.. Where did you get these, you're favorite comic book?

Yes, I can point fingers at thieves. You may not like it, but I can.

What a jerk.

K...first off, and for most...I thought you were "done"? Secondly....Wow, cursing, and name calling....another sign of a small mind. Shame, you showed such promise and started out with a strong verbal command, too...

Anyway...

They are not THIEVES, that I spoke of, they are honest consumers. You need to read more carefully, and with an open mind. Every consumer that bought CD's LEGALLY was being ripped off by the Industry which was found guilty of price fixing and over charging, this is the finding of a court of law! Now please tell me how the honest consumers that are buying CD's are thieves? Again, you read (hear) only what you want, and NOT what I have written. Maybe your small mind won't allow you to get all the information that is in my post, so you simply decided what it says without really reading it?
Also, I didn't toss in unrealated argument, I merely mentioned an observation that I have made. I NEVER stated that illegal downloading was justified by the actions (or rather "mis-actions) of the Industry. I simply stated that it would be nice to see that issue get as much attention. That is all I said. Then you got hot and the thread took a different course.

...and I have a finger pointed at you, too.....
.......guess which one!



PS. For God's sake, download a spellcheck, will ya? ...and relax. It's just a healthy debate, and I'm just having some fun with you...don't take it so personally. I may be wrong, but I don't believe this is the first time we have been on opposite ends of a topic. Hell, might have even been this same topic on a different thread.

 

[fraserhutch]

Wow, cursing, and name calling....another sign of a small mind. Shame, you showed such promise and started out with a strong verbal command, too...

If you call me names, I will call you names. I think you are the first person I have called names here, so consider yourself honoured.

Anyway...

They are not THIEVES, that I spoke of, they are honest consumers. You need to read more carefully, and with an open mind. Every consumer that bought CD's LEGALLY was being ripped off by the Industry which was found guilty of price fixing and over charging, this is the finding of a court of law! Now please tell me how the honest consumers that are buying CD's are thieves? Again, you read (hear) only what you want, and NOT what I have written. Maybe your small mind won't allow you to get all the information that is in my post, so you simply decided what it says without really reading it?

That's not what you said: this is:

So my original statement was merely meant to show my puzzlement about why the consumer (you) is so eager to be judge, jury, and executioner toward another consumer when they see wrong, yet so willing to turn a blind, non-caring eye toward the Industry for which they so quickly defend? An Industry that has been stealing from the consumer, and the artist for decades.

You referred to the persons I am railing against as consumers.
I'll spell it out for you, the people I am referring to are NOT consumers, they are thieves.

I didn't toss in unrealated argument

who needs a spell check?


And yes, it is a totally unrelated argument.

 

[Toker41]

If you call me names, I will call you names. I think you are the first person I have called names here, so consider yourself honoured.


That's not what you said: this is:
You referred to the persons I am railing against as consumers.
I'll spell it out for you, the people I am referring to are NOT consumers, they are thieves.

who needs a spell check?


And yes, it is a totally unrelated argument.

I never called you any name. I simply stated observations I have made about you. I said that you have a small mind, suffer from tunnel vision, and stuff like that. Name calling is "....you prick" or "... what a jerk".

Thank you for pointing out my spelling error. One once in a while can be excused as a typo. However, you have a lot.

Here:

http://www.download.com/IESpell/3000-2378_4-10357976.html?tag=lst-0-1

No tricks, honest. This link is for a spellcheck that works in your windows IE. It is spyware free, and runs like a champ. It is legal and free, and I use it in all 7 of my computers without problems.

Also, you have a valid point, I did not choose my words carefully enough, so I will re-word my statement.
I find it puzzling when a consumer will speak out against a thief that is not stealing from them, yet cares very little about, and pays little to no attention, to the thief (Industry) that is stealing from them.

 

[fraserhutch]

Thank you for pointing out my spelling error. One once in a while can be excused as a typo. However, you have a lot.

So I'm a terrible typist. This has nothing to do with the discussion, but then again, you're the master of redirection, aren't you?

Shoot me for being a terrible typist.

As for your "analysis" of me, it equates to name calling, stop playing games. No one is buying it.

 

[Toker41]

So I'm a terrible typist. This has nothing to do with the discussion, but then again, you're the master of redirection, aren't you?

Shoot me for being a terrible typist.

As for your "analysis" of me, it equates to name calling, stop playing games. No one is buying it.

Wow, you assume a lot about what people think.

 

[Toker41]

I don't know for a fact, not do I give a rat's ass whether you steal or not. Specifically, I was referring to that tired and morally bankrupt argument that you are using which postulates that everyone pirates. I see the acceptance of that argument as a result of when one's own integrity has degraded - how can one believe that others can have integrity when one's self does not?.

What you posit is NOT a fact. There are many people who do not pirate material.

AND - I DO have every right to judge those who steal. In fact, it is my obligation, as it should be eveyone's - If not me, who? If something is wrong, I will speak out against it, and I epxect others to feel and do likewise. If I do that wrong, I *expect* someone else to speak out against me. The difference here Apparently being that I have a moral code that tells me what is right and what is wrong, and that I have learnt from experience not to allow myself to rationailze things away.

And this argument has NOTHING to do with the prices charged by the record companies. That is just another tired and once again morally bankrupt rationailzation for theft - in fact, where is it written that you are entitled to their product? These companies are under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to provide you with music. You have no moral basis for the theft. Period.

And I do know that you "claim" that it is not a justification, but if you didn't believe it at some level, why throw it in here?

Hey, thanks for the neg. comment in the Rep. Do you do that to EVERYONE that disagrees with your small mind? Nice of you to hit me there twice! Clearly you did this because you have judged me as a thief, or because I have disagreed with your opinion. Thus you have shown you ARE judgemental, and see yourself above others. "Theft is theft" is what you claim. You care nothing of underlying issues, or details. No thought involved, and no mercy. You have made your opinoin clear. Fine. However, I would rather spend that time figuring out why it happens, and filling in the details without judgement clouding, and closing my mind. Look at ALL the reasons piracy happens, including, but not limited to, the fact that to take what you can is human nature, as well as the fact that people will pay a "fair" price for a "good" product, and will treat people as they are treated. Which do you think would help prevent it in the future? It's a fact that it's not going to stop. It has been happening for many years. This all went down when cassettes came out, also. Most people knew that it is illegal to record anything from the radio, or TV. However, people freely copied albums to cassette, and movies, and television shows, just as people copy CDs, download software, MP3's and back up you CD's on a pc so you can transfer them to your MP3 player (yes this is illegal). Manufactures made and sold the products that allowed the public to do it (Cassette recorders, VCR), just as they do today (MP3 players). You can not inforce a law that the people just do not want, or refuse to take seriously. The Industry knows this today, also. Throwing people in jail is not going to stop it. Judging people is counter productive, and a waste of time. Understanding people is a much better, and realistic way to finding a means to getting it under some kind of control. Hollywood is having a hard time learning this lesson at the moment, but they will catch up. Will be interesting to see what happens when they start "beaming" digital movies right to the theater. Opens up all kinds of new piracy problems.
Damn, there I go being the master of redirection again, and bringing up the same old arguement....Guess I'm just living up to my rep.

 

[fraserhutch]

Hey, thanks for the neg. comment in the Rep. Do you do that to EVERYONE that disagrees with your small mind? Nice of you to hit me there twice! Clearly you did this because you have judged me as a thief, or because I have disagreed with your opinion. Thus you have shown you ARE judgemental, and see yourself above others. "Theft is theft" is what you claim. You care nothing of underlying issues, or details. No thought involved, and no mercy. You have made your opinoin clear. Fine. However, I would rather spend that time figuring out why it happens, and filling in the details without judgement clouding, and closing my mind. Look at ALL the reasons piracy happens, including, but not limited to, the fact that to take what you can is human nature, as well as the fact that people will pay a "fair" price for a "good" product, and will treat people as they are treated. Which do you think would help prevent it in the future? It's a fact that it's not going to stop. It has been happening for many yearThis all went down when cassettes came out, also. Most people knew that it is illegal to record anything from the radio, or TV. However, people freely copied albums to cassette, and movies, and television shows, just as people copy CDs, download software, MP3's and back up you CD's on a pc so you can transfer them to your MP3 player (yes this is illegal). Manufactures made and sold the products that allowed the public to do it (Cassette recorders, VCR), just as they do today (MP3 players). You can not inforce a law that the people just do not want, or refuse to take seriously. The Industry knows this today, also. Throwing people in jail is not going to stop it. Judging people is counter productive, and a waste of time. Understanding people is a much better, and realistic way to finding a means to getting it under some kind of control. Hollywood is having a hard time learning this lesson at the moment, but they will catch up. Will be interesting to see what happens when they start "beaming" digital movies right to the theater. Opens up all kinds of new piracy problems.
Damn, there I go being the master of redirection again, and bringing up the same old arguement....Guess I'm just living up to my rep.

Um, I did not hit you with neg. rep. And even if I did, I could not do it twice.
And, I never accused anyone spoecifically of being a thief, unless they amitted to it. I will use the royal "you" when arguing against someone. As I said, I really don't give a rat's ass if you pirate software or not. BUT, I am adamantly against piracy.

Furthernore, the reasons why people pirate stuff is besides the point. You can argue that the current measures combating piracy are probably not that effective, and I would agree with you. Again, besides the point, worthy of discussion, but besides the point.

Incidentally, should I have hit you up with rep, that would be the EXACT reason to do so. Everyone is jughemental to some degree. Do I see myself above others, not at all. But I do have scruples, and am willing to defend them.

Do I care about underlying issues? Of course I do. Am I naive enough to allow them to be used as a smokescreen? Not at all. Two wrongs don't make a right. Rationalization is just that. If you cannot grasp that, you're the one with a small mind. There are plenty of reasons why people pirate, I get that, I really do, but none of them defend the theft.

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

I'm not saying that downloading is right, I'm simply confused as to why it is such a "hype" topic, with threads about it all the time, yet the other end of it is never really discussed, and the consumer (you guys) don't even seem to care when it is you that is being robbed. It's really ass-backwards.

You can't be "robbed" of something that isn't yours to begin with.

Its a hyped topic because stealing is illegal. Right & wrong are different judgements than legal or illegal. Too many times the discussion of these 2 different things is confused: X says downloading is illegal, so Y gets upset that he's been accused of doing something wrong.

Using software outside of the liscence agreement that governs it is illegal. Period. So is going 56 mph in a 55 zone. So is downloading music without paying for it. None of these illegal activities are particularlt enforced so its easy to go ahead and do them- even if you are an otherwise law abiding person.

Use whatever excuses you like- its illegal.

Chris

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

FWIW- i have Pro Tools, which can't be downloaded except for the 32 track version of PT Free, and Cubase SX2 which I bought used locally for $250. The USB key is in the port of the keyboard I'm typing on. I also installed Cubase on my PC (I have both PC and Mac) and I dongle cracked that copy because the USB ports on the PC are broken.

I've tried tons of cracked software, but after a while it gets old. I have a 14 year old recording student who is still excited about what he can get for free, but its lost its appeal to me. Its kind of horrifying, actually. I downloaded a $4000 program once just to see what it was like... scary. Who can afford to make software if its so easily stolen?

These days I mix analog anyway, and you can't download an RNC. More fun, more satisfying, sounds better, more impressive, and I don't have to worry about my clients seeing a "Cracked by Dorkboy!" flash screen when I patch in the 160xl.

-C

 

[Tekker]

Wow, some people have way to much time on their hands. I haven't read this whole thing (and I'm not planning on it) but I think just reading two or three posts pretty much gives the idea of the whole thing....

But to answer the original question, yes I really do buy the expensive recording software..... And for those interested, I'm a "poor" college student too. You would be surprised by how easy it is to make a little money while going to school by giving lessons (I give both guitar and drum lessons at $15 for an hour lesson) and I have done some recording for friend's bands as well and I even did some yard work for my neighbor, which is what I used to fund my Samplitude v8 upgrade.

The only time I "download" anything is when there is no demo available to try out. A while back I downloaded some waves plugins, tried them out for a while, realized they weren't that good and were WAY over priced and I'm now the proud owner of several Voxengo plugins (which beat the pants off waves any day of the week! )

-tkr

 

[Altaire]

Yup. But then we have to consider that this is a time of instant gratification. Kids no longer know about the thing we once called "work ethic". It has been replaced by a thing called "free and easy". People don't want to pay for things, but they still want quality. That, to me, is absurd.

If you don't have the $$ right now to buy what you want, either wait and save, or get it on credit. This desire to get quality software for free is just stupid.

and this escapes me...why exactly is it better to work your ass off then pay absorbitant prices for something you can get free? Because its some kind of sophist moral? We live in an amoral world. You either fuck or you get fucked. Sorry to say. Best thing you can do is to try and protect yourself from being fucked.

And furthermore, obviously the companies are still, with all the pirating, making lots of money, otherwise they'd be running charities. So how do you know that cubase is worth 600 dollars in packaging and materials and development? Maybe its only worth $100, maybe they could sell it for 50 and make less of a profit. Would overcharging 550 dollars still be okay, but pirating wrong? I mean I dont know I cant look at these folks books, but people do seem to feel so strongly about burning and cracking sw and dont say nothing about having to pay 20 dollars for a piece of plastic and paper which probably costed the company 30 cents to produce, maybe 1.00 for the artists and promo.

and when its all said and done, the companies steal, and get rich. Broke artists steal software they cant afford, or that comfortably...and theyre still broke...

 

[Robert D]

and this escapes me...why exactly is it better to work your ass off then pay absorbitant prices for something you can get free? Because its some kind of sophist moral? We live in an amoral world. You either fuck or you get fucked. Sorry to say. Best thing you can do is to try and protect yourself from being fucked.

And furthermore, obviously the companies are still, with all the pirating, making lots of money, otherwise they'd be running charities. So how do you know that cubase is worth 600 dollars in packaging and materials and development? Maybe its only worth $100, maybe they could sell it for 50 and make less of a profit. Would overcharging 550 dollars still be okay, but pirating wrong? I mean I dont know I cant look at these folks books, but people do seem to feel so strongly about burning and cracking sw and dont say nothing about having to pay 20 dollars for a piece of plastic and paper which probably costed the company 30 cents to produce, maybe 1.00 for the artists and promo.

and when its all said and done, the companies steal, and get rich. Broke artists steal software they cant afford, or that comfortably...and theyre still broke...

Sad.....really really sad.

 

[Giganova]

and this escapes me...why exactly is it better to work your ass off then pay absorbitant prices for something you can get free? Because its some kind of sophist moral? We live in an amoral world. You either fuck or you get fucked. Sorry to say. Best thing you can do is to try and protect yourself from being fucked....

You are a horrible person. Did you ever realize that we live in a society and that a society can only be peaceful and work as long as people treat each other in a decent manner? So you think just because you believe that we live in an amoral world you can steal and "fuck others"?

You're pathetic. I hope we will never meet.

 

[Altaire]

no, I believe that there are lots of rich ass people out there who are living decadently off the sweat of my back and I could give a fuck less if they have 1,999,999,999.99 in thier account than a straight two bil. Im not concerned in the slightest in feeding their gluttony.

You're trying to hold up some misguided ass moral attitude to protect an immoral system and you dont realize it. Youre the kind of person that thinks affirmative action is unfair.

Treating people in a decent manner has nothing to do with it, because the poor are never treated in a "decent manner". Now if you have enough money to feed these companies, by all means do it.

Besides, I never said I stole software anyway. I dont even know where you get that stuff from. But I dont feel sorry for rich people, no, sorry

 

[Giganova]

Now if you have enough money to feed these companies, by all means do it.

Does it ever occur to you that these companies employ people and by buying software you pay their salaries??
Who do you think writes the software? "Rich people" in their free time on their yachts??

 

[Altaire]

Does it ever occur to you that these companies employ people and by buying software you pay their salaries??
Who do you think writes the software? "Rich people" in their free time on their yachts??

So I as a poor person should be morally obligated to support some software developer who could care less about me and probably is making 5 times my salary...because...

what are you trying to convince me of here

maybe this is hard for you to understand because youve never had to go into survival mode. Come stay where I stay, maybe you'll get it. Im not saying these cats who are saying I steal because I can are right, but I know alot of people who you'd rather have stealing software from a company thats going to be healthy and successful either way, than to be stealing shit out of your house and beating your ass

life aint black and white, you gotta estimate that shit, and thats to anybody reading this. A lot of times the law aint fair to the people, its fair to the people writing the laws and those people who support them, but on the surface it seems like your faith is in the right place.

 

[Toker41]

Careful there, Altaire...

...if you disagree with these self righteous people, they further prove they feel they are better than you by blasting you with negative rep, and thus continue to judge you. You can only post here if you agree with the holier than thou group. I lost all my rep points because of my evil way of thinking on this thread...so repent, brother, repent...or be struck down by the negative reputation feedback god that these butt-wipe do-gooders pray to.

Why is it that the people with the high morals, are also the most judgmental people?

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

maybe this is hard for you to understand because youve never had to go into survival mode.

That is the biggest load of fucking bollocks......... since when is ANY software considered necessary for "survival", dipshit? I don't begrudge anyone having to steal bread to eat, but computer software????????? Gimme a fuckin' break...... if you have to "survive" then you should be selling the fucking computer, moron..............

You idiots are fucking unbelievable...........

 

[Pinachi]

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