Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

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Do you buy that expensive recording software, or just download it?(Read authors post)

  • I buy it. I like to support the creator.

    Votes: 564 41.2%
  • I download it. To hell with the creator.

    Votes: 305 22.3%
  • I do both. I have mixed feelings on the subject.

    Votes: 501 36.6%

  • Total voters
    1,370
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It was not exactly created by Congress. A common misconception. The President that signed the Federal Reserve act into law, later stated that he had made a great error, and had sold America into slavery.

Kennedy was killed because he issued 8 billion dollars in Government NOTES, bypassing the Federal Reserve, and taking the first step in eliminating it's role in U.S economics. The day after he was killed, those notes were recalled.

You do not know as much about it as you think. I suggest starting with a book called The Creature from Jeckel Island.
 
Toker41 said:
Kennedy was killed because he issued 8 billion dollars in Government NOTES, bypassing the Federal Reserve, and taking the first step in eliminating it's role in U.S economics. The day after he was killed, those notes were recalled.

You do not know as much about it as you think. I suggest starting with a book called The Creature from Jeckel Island.
Whatever you want to believe, Toker. I'm glad that you are the only one who knows with any certainty why Kennedy was killed, and why that one conspiracy theory and book is the one that stands out from the million other conspiracy theories with initially-plausable-sounding books on the market explaining them. Nobody outside those that did it knows why he was actually killed, and nobody but them will ever know. If it makes you sleep better at night to believe that one theory, I'll let you sleep.

And as far as a president signing a bill or an act he did not like, that wasn't the first time, and it certainly won't be the last. Hell, if a politican refused to sign on to something every time they didn't particularly like it, we yould never have a Declaration of Independance and this country would not exist as we know it.

I would suggest you spend less time in the conspiracy isle of your book store and more in the nonfiction section, but I'm through fighting religion.

Though there is one book I happen to be reading right now that you might actually like as well, it's called "That's Not In My American History Book", by Thomas Ayres. Nothing conspiratorial, but it does contain a lot of great stories of how one should not confuse history with the past.

G.
 
ah toker, forgot about that stuff! Thanks for reminding me.

Thanks for returning to debate rather than angry chest pounding Glen!!

Nope, it's not revolutionary or new. Some of this has been almost common knowledge for a long time. You know the thing is, dude... most of what you say I actually agree with in a way, but the thing is: There are some conspiracies that are out there, really truely, though. If you do some hard research there is absolute proof, some of it even from autobiographies of some of these folks. Most of it is just a bunch of greedy SOB's trying to get money, like you said, but.. really that's mostly what the elite of masonry is about, money...power ...more money...more power.... *ejaculation*. They don't really care about anything other than having the absolute power to do whatever they please and make insane ammounts of money. They aren't out to get you or I as their agenda, but their persuits usually do effect us in ways that enslave us, forcing us into lining their pockets, or else we face very severe concequences. There are some that base their business plans on enslaving all of the people below them and robbing them blind, using laws, fear of going to jail, or being fined lots of money, or being homeless etc as their "gun" so to speak. The labels are in no way a conspiracy, nope. Some of the companies that own them are involved with some of the conspirators though, and that's part of why I don't support them (well aside from all the other immoral deplorable business practices) When I say conspiracy, I mean, a group of people all using each other to basically buy out everything and everyone on earth so they have everything and the rest of the world has nothing. It is an agenda, and there are some of these folks working together to make it happen. They might have little squabbles here and there because really they're just dispicable selfish people who care nothing about anyone else, even their commrades. Most of these people would stab their mother in the face if it meant they could make a fortune from it. They use government, they kill people, they do anything they can to ensure this goal happens. I do know that Rupert Murdoch is involved with the masons, but not the other fellow you mentioned. I doubt he is. The thing is, not all of the "movers and shakers" actually are movers and shakers. They might have enough power, but not absolute power. Even the president of the United States is less powerful than some of these people. Dick Cheney certainly is (he is evil scum... no questions asked. FUCK HIM!)

The thing about the federal reserve. Toker is absolutely right. the Federal reserve is a private company, just the same as the IRS. Congress actually couldn't just get out of it that easy. The federal reserve sells the money it prints at face value plus, I think it was 8% interest. THe only way to get out of their contract is to pay off all that interest...The federal reserve has done nothing but further screw America, and even the government, and all those living within it's borders.

Yeah do look at those guys. Read their biographies, find out who they're involved with. One of the few real conspiracies IS freemasonry. There aren't very many outside of that which are actually based in too much truth, a few though. America was originally founded by free masons even. It's a masonic country. the district of columbia, the masonic symbol of the pyramid and the all seeing eye all over the currency, official seals, company logos that have ties to the higher ups in government, etc. Masons do find symbology to be very important. However, remember most masons don't know of this even, only the ones who have gotten toward the top. Is it purely motivated on money? yeah, you bet! The thing is, there are some very influential people who use their positions in society to basically serve the masonic agenda. It's not always the companies or government organizations, or even the governments themselves, in fact I find more people are part of this in the corporate world and governmental involvement is mostly a spillover in politics from big business moguls getting into these high positions of government, because they're high order masons, and America is a masonic country.

What the labels are guilty of is not a conspiracy at all...when I said control, I meant exactly what you said. They want a total monopoly, so taht they can control the entire music market, and funnel any money that anyone spends on any art into their pockets. Sure they SHOULD control their products, that's what all businesses do. You can't control what someone does to it once they've bought it though. If I want to rig that new bitchen zwarski crystal embedded lexus with explosives, piss all over the patent leather seats and then blow the thing to kingdom come, that's my right. It doesn't take any rights from them to download a song. They still have the right to conduct business, and either change with the market or die..which brings me to my next point:I CAN and DO blame them. They have made their businesses so successful from nothing other than shady business practices, and as of lately aligning themselves with some very elite people, beyond governments, that always just happen to be masons, and just happen to follow the same agenda of litterally owning the entire human race. The business of music is changing, as it has many times before. Business evolves constantly, and the cold hard truth about business is you change with it, or you start collecting welfare checks. They are angry because the business model that has secured them so many billions of absolutely garanteed money has to change. You know, honestly it doesn't matter if downloads effect CD sales. Lower the price of CDs, put more into the packaging. Make people desire that product. What they are selling is a disc, not the music on it. The music is an artistic expression, which comes from an artist, not the label. The label's job is to manufacture the media which people will listen to the artists work on. Why not put lots of visual artwork that completes the picture, make the packaging exciting, something that quite frankly you wouldn't have the whole package if you downloaded an mp3. Also, the industry profits, if downloading is in fact effecticing CD sales (Which honestly doesn't seem that it effects it too terribly much), would be more in other avanues. Live performance, for example. Some of these major label artists are charging $90 for tickets to go see them, that's much more than the ammount for a CD... The thing is, for so long these companies have gotten used to doing almost nothing, putting very minimal effort into the product (the actual physical CD and packaging), using legal loopholes and crooked politicians, to get away with tricking the people who actually MAKE the art that they put on their discs into signing contracts that allow them to hardly pay out any money to anyone, and had the money roll in, simply because there was no choices for the consumer other than to get everything sold by them. If there is nothing that entices people to buy the disc, then they are just piss poor businessmen. If the only way they can be profitable is to have a media monopoly, then they honestly lack any real business skills. Look at the child toy market, now those people know how to make people desire their product. Sure, you could just print out your pokemon cards from a computer if the kids really wanted to, or whatever the kids play with now, but no they desire it...it has to be that hot item, because it's just so much more desireable for them to own it. It's marketed, it's got something about it that makes you HAVE to have that product These people are just lazy and expect money just because they always have received it. The business changed, and they won't change with it, so they have three options. They change. They die. Or they fuck everyone over and use the government to ensure their INSANE profits (airline companies and oil companies? heh)

And that's really all there is to that.
 
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TerraMortim said:
The thing with the IRS. There is no law.... none...stating you have to pay a federal income tax...There are all these IRS codes and stuff like that, but the IRS is a private company.

Good thing you live in Canada :p

Unfortunately there is a law. The "IRS Codes" are found in Title 26 of the United States Code, the US Code being the laws enacted by Congress. The courts have repeatedly upheld the validity of the 16th Amendment, the validity of taxation of wages, the requirement to file an income tax return, and the mandatory nature of the income tax, to the point that such claims are considered frivolous and invoke automatic fines on taxpayers who raise them.

There have people who have actually gotten off in trials for not paying their federal income taxes, on that premise that there is actually no law stating that. People just believe it because the big powerful guy with the power tie strongarmed everyone into submision.

No there aren't. Dude, back when I was a tax accountant, I got a reporting service of all of the cases that came out of Tax Court. Every single update, there were several tax protestors whose similar claims were rejected as frivolous, and were fined heavily BY THE COURT for raising those arguments. Every single day, there are people ruining their lives because they believed a charlatan who told them they didn't have to pay federal income taxes.

Why? Greed. Greed on the part of the people who didn't want to pay taxes; greed on the part of the shysters who sell books and seminars with lies about the validity of tax law.

BTW the states have always, indisputably had the right to levy an income tax, they didn't need a constitutional amendment to do so. How many tax protestors do you think pay their state income tax, but not their federal income tax? Stick that in your Funk & Wagnalls and smoke it :p
 
ah, I guess I stand corrected. I haven't researched that particular point as much as some...I almost deleted it before I posted it because of that. I read a few articles on it but not much more than that. Sorry for the innacuracy.

oh yeah...I am actually an American, though. Born and raised. I just like living in Canada better. It has it's problems but I get along with people better up here than I usually did in the states. Also, there are more opportunities for what I do, there are actually a lot of industrial gigs around here and what not, and I could NEVER live in LA. Hollywood is the worst place I could imagine living on this continent, ack!
 
There is no law or stature that requires one to pay federal wage taxes, only corporate gain taxes. This has been upheld by the supreme court, but overturned many times by lower courts. I'll have to search for the links, but there have been cases where the lower courts have even referred to the Supreme courts as "irrelevant".

And BTW...there are many that have fought this and won. It's a gamble, but if some do win, then there is truth to it.

EVERY DIME of federal wage tax collected goes to paying the INTEREST owed to the Federal Reserve (which prints money out of thin air, and then charges the Government interest on something that does not exists). Not one dime goes toward the principle. This is not an unsecured loan. The collateral is the very land you stand on. Every inch of America is "mortgaged" to the Federal Reserve. It is not about money to the ones on top, it is about power.

The Constitution gives our Government the right to print it's own money. This means it is interest free, and is NOT a loan. The Federal Reserve act in essences "farms" out this responsibility, and now gives that power to print U.S. "Reserve" notes (money) to the Federal Reserve, and "loan" it to the U.S. which must be paid back with interest. This money is printed out of thin air, with nothing to back it's stated value. It's paper...nothing more. In fact it's debt...period. Each American is responsible for an equal share of the debt owed to the Federal Reserve. If the Federal Reserve act was never put in place, America would not owe interest on it's own money. Last I checked every child born at this moment is immediately in debt to the Federal Reserve for $135,000. The Federal Reserve is NOT a branch of the U.S. Government. It is a privately owned bank. It's goal is one world government. The ball has been rolling on this for decades. Within the next 2 years the North American Union will be in place, and the dollar will be replaced with the Amero. This is very similar to the European Union. It's easier to bring a small amount of "unions" together, than it is a larger group of individual countries. Right now, Canadians are starting to speak out on this NAU, and are wondering why Americans know so little about what is going on right under their nose.
You can blow this off as "conspiracy theory" garbage, but I strongly suggest you google the "Amero". The very legitimate results you find will shock you.
 
Give it up guys. We've heard it all, read it all, been there, done that, there's nothing there, and it gets really boing after a while.

I can't believe you seriously played the Jack Kennedy card. I was joking about that earlier. The only young zealot cards you haven't played yet and are about to are the Roswell/Area 51 card and the "MSH and I are both 'one of them'" card stating that the only reason we are arguing so vehemently against you guys is because we are members ourselves and we're just trying to spread disinformation to keep zealots like you quelled.

I got news for you guys. You want something to be paranoid about? *Everybody* is a member of that group except for you. There is no shadow conspiracy, it's right out in the open; it's called the real world. It's you guys that are hiding in the shadows. You guys are all alone and the more you protest the real world, the more alone you will become.

You have a choice; go on blaming your irresponsibile software theft on the people who assasinated President Kennedy (LOL, now there's a sentence I never thought I'd have to type :D) and find yourself increasingly alienated and alone in this world. Or you can just grow up, take responsibility for your own lives and make a change by being an example to others instead of blaming God-as-conspirator for your own troubles.

I don't have any more time for this crap. Back to the real world for me.

G.
 
Toker41 said:
There is no law or stature that requires one to pay federal wage taxes, only corporate gain taxes. This has been upheld by the supreme court, but overturned many times by lower courts. I'll have to search for the links, but there have been cases where the lower courts have even referred to the Supreme courts as "irrelevant".

And BTW...there are many that have fought this and won. It's a gamble, but if some do win, then there is truth to it.

Totally false.

Provide some citations, please, because I have read lots of such cases , all you have to do is provide one . . .

I don't have access to Lexis anymore, and I suspect you don't either (that ol' intellectual property again, life's a bitch when people expect to be paid for their work), but you could peruse this (heavily annotated) site:

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html

I will have no further discussion on this issue until you satisfy a minimum level of intellectual honesty and curiosity, which you can demonstrate by answering this question:

- One argument of tax protestors is that the Tax Court is not validly created, or controlled by the IRS, etc. However, even though it is at the taxpayer's option to sue in Tax Court or Federal District Court, the majority (perhaps overwhelming) number of tax protestors sue in Tax Court. Why?


This money is printed out of thin air, with nothing to back it's stated value. It's paper...nothing more.

Why does money need to be backed with anything? It doesn't. Hint: the value of fiat money can be based upon the power of taxation, and thus the economic strength of a nation. No indexing to a commodity is necessary nor desirable.

Within the next 2 years the North American Union will be in place, and the dollar will be replaced with the Amero. This is very similar to the European Union.

Funny, there is no such enabling legislation, and the EU and Euro were planned many years in advance.

The great thing is this thread will still be around when you are proven wrong :p
 
If money is based on the power of taxation, then that note is debt, not money. It is created out of thin air, where there was nothing, but immediately there is something owed on it.
Ask yourself this: If the Government has the power to print it's own money, interest free, why would it farm that out to a non-government organization, and create tremendous debt (interest) where it is not necessary? Why would a government sell it's own people into burden of paying this debt that was created from thin air?


Christ on a cracker! This is such an old argument, and I can't believe I'm in it again.
k..busy day today. Give me a couple days, and I will present what you request. However, I suggest you drop the smugness. I have never claimed to be an "economics genius". Doesn't mean I don't know enough of the facts to understand what's going on, either. Nor does it mean I should be talked down to. Respect is the word of the day, here.
 
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SouthSIDE Glen said:
Give it up guys. We've heard it all, read it all, been there, done that, there's nothing there, and it gets really boing after a while.

I can't believe you seriously played the Jack Kennedy card. I was joking about that earlier. The only young zealot cards you haven't played yet and are about to are the Roswell/Area 51 card and the "MSH and I are both 'one of them'" card stating that the only reason we are arguing so vehemently against you guys is because we are members ourselves and we're just trying to spread disinformation to keep zealots like you quelled.

I got news for you guys. You want something to be paranoid about? *Everybody* is a member of that group except for you. There is no shadow conspiracy, it's right out in the open; it's called the real world. It's you guys that are hiding in the shadows. You guys are all alone and the more you protest the real world, the more alone you will become.

You have a choice; go on blaming your irresponsibile software theft on the people who assasinated President Kennedy (LOL, now there's a sentence I never thought I'd have to type :D) and find yourself increasingly alienated and alone in this world. Or you can just grow up, take responsibility for your own lives and make a change by being an example to others instead of blaming God-as-conspirator for your own troubles.

I don't have any more time for this crap. Back to the real world for me.

G.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.

"The greatest thing the Devil ever did, was convince man that he didn't exist."
 
Toker41 said:
Christ on a cracker! This is such an old argument, and I can't believe I'm in it again.
k..busy day today. Give me a couple days, and I will present what you request.
"I'll be back..."

You need a couple of days for a link to a single case, and a very basic question about the Tax Court? Don't bother then. Just don't pay your taxes and wait. Chances are it will take the IRS 6 or 10 years to catch up with you; the audit rate is incredibly low these days.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I'm probably the biggest idiot in the world for one reason....because I decided to join in this absolutely dipshit idiotic thread :rolleyes: :D .


G.
Another fine mess you got yourself in Willis :) teeheehee
 
NYMorningstar said:
Another fine mess you got yourself in Willis :) teeheehee
To quote from "The Magnificent Seven":

Eli Wallich: "Why [did you do this]?"

Steve McQueen: "I knew a guy once who stripped naked and ran into a field of cactus. I asked him the same question."

Eli Wallich: "What did he say?"

Steve McQueen: "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

:D

~~~

I knew I'd be butting heads with a slacker, but I had no idea that there'd be a tag team of Lone Gunmen wannabes hiding a few keystrokes away.

At least I know when to get out, which I'm doing now. This is about as fruitful as trying to explain relativity to a Jehovah's Witness.

G.
 
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pacman9000 said:
anyone know when this thread is coming out in paperback?

For once I couldn't agree more with your sentiments :)

Will someone please lock this fucking thing. Dyou think if enough of us report it it will get closed?
 
Chris Shaeffer said:
It really is stealing. That's about all there is to it. Its breaking the law.

Going 66mph is a 65 zone is breaking the law, too. Most cops don't mind. Heck, they'll even let you slide by at 70... If those who enforce the law don't care, no one cares.

I wonder how long it will be until some really effective means of nailing pirated software users will be developed?

And this is the bottom line. I think the conundrum for the software publishers is WHO is stealing. As we've seen with the RIAA coming after teenagers for sharing their kazaa downloads, it makes the company look evil to bring everyday people into court over these matters. So until people either stop downloading it or all channels to getting the stuff are cut, there's likely no end in sight.
_________________________

I was going to use the speeding analogy to demonstrate a point. The problem I have with assessing morality and ethics to this and the music downloading issue are the people imposing their ethics on others. Ie - hypocrisy. Many of the same leaders of big business and those who poo-poo others who use pirated software also speed on the highway, cheat on their taxes, beat their spouses, stab a coworker in the back to get to the next rung on the corporate ladder, etc. It reminds me of jesus's sermon on the mount (no, I'm not religious). "Why point out the log in your brother's eye when you have a log in your own? First, remove the log from your own eye..." or something to that effect.

So as you can guess, I'm clearly on the piracy side of the fence. Until I make a single dollar off my recordings I simply cannot (I mean CANNOT) afford to buy the software I use. Period. If I was a professiojnal then you better darn believe every single piece of software I'd own would be 100% bought and paid for. But I would also be able to afford it. And the software companies know that I wouldn't be buying it regardless of whether they made their copy protection any stronger. They would need to lower their prices an easy 50% to enter my financial realm, and piracy costs them less than 50% of that price tag so the math is in favor of the status quo. The only people that seem to have the greatest objection are those who HAVE paid $600+ for the software they use. It's almost a badge to allow them to bash others on internet forums. lol

BTW, I'm a professional in the computing field, so I know what the R&D and distribution costs are for software. Piracy is only a small percent of profit loss. The biggest single chunk of that profit goes towards advertising. People need to know your software exists before they can buy it.

**oops - I didn't realize this was on page 52. I could only stomach the first 2 pages before hitting reply :p 10 minutes I will never get back. **
 
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