Do i NEED to mic an amp?

[moresound]

Yup my cats have a song that's going up the charts to #1 with a bullet!
Think I'll mic up the hamster cage next!

 

[Terra]

the best thing to do is to set aside an afternoon of just playing with it. Record some of the same chords/licks over and over again running direct, micing, different mic positions etc.

don't give up and find what sounds best for you!

 

[Chibi Nappa]

I have to agree with Greg on this. Amp simulators (and modeling hardware/software in general) are getting better all the time - and they couldn't sound any worse than miking a cheap Crate.

This sounds like a challenge! I've got a Crate at home so cheap you'd be handing me your spare change if you saw it. Let me see what I can do.

 

[Greg_L]

I have to agree with Greg on this. Amp simulators (and modeling hardware/software in general) are getting better all the time - .

And 99% of the blowhard audiophile wannabes in here couldn't tell the difference between a good sim and a mic'd amp anyway, which means 100% of the music listening general public can't tell the difference.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Don't let mic snobs sway you. Sims usually sound way better.

The learning curve is definitely a bit steeper for getting a great guitar sound out of an amp and a mic, and it's definitely the more expensive route - a good amp alone can set you back a couple grand.

That said, if you have a good rig and spend the time learning how to record it, I disagree - currently there's not much out there that can really compete with a mic'd up amp, even in a home studio situation. Some units are getting pretty close (the AxeFX is quickly building a following), but they're not quite there yet in tone, and the "feel" still isn't right, which can impact how you play.

Now, that said, if you're completely new to recording and working on a tight budget, or DON'T own an amp you love the sound of, you might be better off using a software amp sim. What kind of tone are you after? If you're into heavier stuff, I've heard guys get some pretty decent sounds out of these:

http://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/

...particularly the Recto. It doesn't sound exactly like my Roadster, but the clips I've heard sounded totally respectable.

Anyway, if your interest here is to learn the process of getting great guitar sounds to disc and become a better engineer, get a mic. If you just care about getting good enough results as soon as possible, don't bother and grab a few freeware VST sims.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

And 99% of the blowhard audiophile wannabes in here couldn't tell the difference between a good sim and a mic'd amp anyway, which means 100% of the music listening general public can't tell the difference.

It is not important to be able to make that differentiation. What if it is a shitty amp recording with tasteless post processing? Opps, I guessed sim.



But if I was shown various recorded guitar parts I could tell you what ones sounded great. My guess is they would most likely be amps.

 

[Greg_L]

I'm not anti guitar/amp/mic by any means. I love the real thing. The simple truth though is that unless you have very good gear, including mics and pres, a quality sim is just gonna be better, and give you way more options. Go listen to any recording sites "mp3 clinic" and listen to the tones people are recording. They're rarely any good. They usually suck. If the "sounds good/is good" mantra carries any truth, a sim is better in most instances.

 

[Greg_L]

It is not important to be able to make that differentiation. What if it is a shitty amp recording with tasteless post processing? Opps, I guessed sim.

Who cares what you guess? Bad is bad, good is good. I bet you couldn't tell a good sim from a real amp. You probably listen to sims and sampled drums all the time and go on thinking it's the real deal. If it's good, you can't tell. You're not supposed to be able to tell.

But if I was shown various recorded guitar parts I could tell you what ones sounded great. My guess is they would most likely be amps.

Of course you would, because a sim can't possibly sound good, right?

 

[Lt. Bob]

I like amps and have a great collection of amps and gits.

AND I don't like modelers much.

Having said that ....... I'm gonna have to come down with the gerg on this. Listen to his recordings ....as much of a butt as he can be, he gets really great guitar sounds on his recordings. A lot of them are sims and I bet you can't tell which is which.
For a newbie I just have to think that they'll get s good sound quicker with a sim.

Even though I've got great gear and I know what I'm doing, it can take an entire evening to get a mic'd amp sounding just like I want it to.

 

[themdla]

lol i must suck with amp sims cuz i've never gotten one to sound "great"...

passable for scratch tracks sure, but that's not to say it can't be done well, just not by me haha

i've tried many amp sims over the years line 6 pods, amplitube 1&2, guitar rig, eleven (the most real out of all of them to me).

in all my shoot outs the mic'd amp always sounds and plays the best....

the "plays" the best is more important to me, aka dynamic response

 

[FunkDaddy]

Re: dynamic response. In Amplitube 3, the amp sims supposedly react the same way to playing that a real amp does.

I'm not exactly sure what the guy who said amp sims aren't as flexible was on about because they are a million times more flexible than a "real" setup. Don't like the sound close mic'd? Try moving the mic around the cab and/or add a room mic, then might as well add another speaker and split the channels so you have a dirtier tone to a seperate channel...that'll take quite a bit of time in a "real" setting, but it takes a couple clicks of the mouse in Amplitube or Guitar Rig.

Personally, I love the creative possibilities with amp sims that would need quite a huge budget and incredible amounts of prep work to replicate with "real" amps. This could be because I'm far from an expert guitar player and am just concerned with what makes my tunes sound the best.

 

[buzzard bass]

Interesting thread. I have a modeling preamp for the bass and was going to run it through a power amp into a speaker, but might try running the line out to the interface.

For git, my love is an LP played through a Marshall. My LP may be an Epi, and the Marshall a micro stack, but still has the sound I'm after for clean or distorted.

 

[tonesponge]

I hear there are some feedback simulators out there, but I have a hard time imagining that any of them come close to the real thing, and the little I've heard has not been good.

Seems the main thing you can't do with amp sims is feedback. But if you're not planning to do that, then you can DI and get some pro results. Some styles of music and players take to it better than others. Try it and see.

But if you are still growing as a guitarist, going DI for everything might stunt your growth in some directions. It might also be said that it could accelerate growth as a guitarist in some ways, especially early on. Amp sims let you try all kinds of things quite readily, while most live setups are one trick ponies. But in my experience, one trick ponies always do the best tricks.

 

[Greg_L]

Another nice thing about software sims - you can tweak your tone without retracking or butchering with EQ. If you have the computer power, you can leave the software running on each guitar track. As you mix, you can go back in and virtually turn knobs on the amp, change the amp alltogether, or move/swap mics and cabs. The flexibility is endless. With a real amp you'd have to set everything up and re-track and hope you nail the performance again.

Even if you don't have the power to keep the software running constantly, there are simple workarounds that don't involve re-tracking. I'll explain it if anyone wants to know.

 

[grimtraveller]

try all kinds of things

Hi Sponge. Glad to see you're still with us.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Having said that ....... I'm gonna have to come down with the gerg on this. Listen to his recordings ....as much of a butt as he can be, he gets really great guitar sounds on his recordings. A lot of them are sims and I bet you can't tell which is which.

Well...Here's the big "gottcha" with that... Greg can really play guitar. It doesn't matter all that much what he's playing through. It's gonna' sound pretty good.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

I'm not exactly sure what the guy who said amp sims aren't as flexible was on about because they are a million times more flexible than a "real" setup.

You can't put a sim flat on it's back with a mic hanging from the ceiling above it.

In a nutshell, the sim doesn't take into account even a fraction of the endless mic, mic position, amp position, crap in the room near the amp, etc options that one can do in the real world. Want the cabinet on the second floor and the mic in the basement? Better use the real thing.

 

[fearfeasog]

I hear there are some feedback simulators out there, but I have a hard time imagining that any of them come close to the real thing, and the little I've heard has not been good.

Seems the main thing you can't do with amp sims is feedback. But if you're not planning to do that, then you can DI and get some pro results. Some styles of music and players take to it better than others. Try it and see.

But if you are still growing as a guitarist, going DI for everything might stunt your growth in some directions. It might also be said that it could accelerate growth as a guitarist in some ways, especially early on. Amp sims let you try all kinds of things quite readily, while most live setups are one trick ponies. But in my experience, one trick ponies always do the best tricks.

i was wondering about the feedback thing. i got some good, no, scratch that--INTERESTING feedback using a DI amp sim (behringer GDI21) and my monitor speakers. not the kind you'd hear out of a Marshall stack or what the hell ever, but kinda nifty.

(i also wonder if you could have a separate track of pre-recorded feedback, with a compressor on it side-chained to the main guitar track--so ducking the feedback whenever the git was playing, then feedback when it stops. that might be fun to try. might not sound like it was coming from the guitar itself though...hmmmm....)

 

[Greg_L]

You can't put a sim flat on it's back with a mic hanging from the ceiling above it.

In a nutshell, the sim doesn't take into account even a fraction of the endless mic, mic position, amp position, crap in the room near the amp, etc options that one can do in the real world. Want the cabinet on the second floor and the mic in the basement? Better use the real thing.

You're really reaching now bro.

 

[Dogbreath]

You should ALWAYS mic an amp.

except for the times ya don't.

Seriously...I've got some pretty good sounds from both. Roll with what works and what you like the sound of.