DMP3 vs VTB1

[Middleman]

I love it and it is becoming my favorite. However, everytime I talk about it I get flamed to death. People will never learn. I don't care though, let them lose out on a great unit. I spent alot of time with it and found out that the compressor and expander work great if used and not overused. Overall, it is a very clean pre with a freq range from 10hZ to 200KhZ! I have no knowledge of Focusrite's past history and some people just refuse to believe how good this unit is. If Abby Road uses it, it must be a great unit.

Hey I am with you all the way. I have one too and it has a killer sound. Too many people stand around beating up the platinum name based on some older technology but this unit deserves some overdue credit. I think it is a substantial step up from the RNP and gives the lead vocal a very upfront quality. I also agree about the compressor and expander, used subtly, they are go to sound effects.

Flatpicker, I have both the DMP3 and the VM Pro and the VM is in another realm. Hard to describe but it imparts a musicality to the sound that the DMP3 does not have. Don't get me wrong, I use the DMP3 all the time when I have a tube mic running. It is actually better in some cases.

Overall the VM Pro steps up the sound of most of my mics. On a lead vocal it generally wins out. To add some variation to my tracks I will go to the DMP3 for a less colored sound. Also, using different preamps adds to the overall dimension of the sound. So, I find both of them very useful. The VM Pro also stands up as a Bass DI in my book.

OK, now I'm raving. I'm done.

 

[chessrock]

BTW, does anyone know right off hand which Burr Brown chip is in the DMP3? There should be another chip(s) in there used for a line amp. Anyone know what it is?

It's the INA163 (same as the newer Grace Designs).


The deal with a lot of these instrument amps -- i.e. the SSM2017 and the INA163, you're talking about one chip that handles the Lion's share of the duties involved in bringing the mic-level signal to line-level. It's not just a typical IC, opamp, or whatever . . . subsequently, the kind used is going to have a major impact on the sound. Much like the type of VCA chip used in a compressor.

The Focusrite, on the other hand, is discrete from what I gather, so on something like that, the workmanship and design are more likely to have a much greater impact on the sound. And as far as the platinum series goes, I don't think I've heard a greater mix of reports ranging from shitty to brilliant to somewhere in-between.

 

[Middleman]

I agree, you do get a lot of variation on Platinum stuff, but about 80% of what I read to the negative is someone repeating something somebody else said and not often a report from someone who actually has used the gear.

The only exception to the rule is the original Voicemaster. I had one and was not all that impressed. I have said this before but the Pro version (Man I hate it when I see Pro in the name of any gear, but I digress) sounds significantly better than the original.

 

[Flatpicker]

Thanks for the info, Chessrock and Middleman. I was wondering about getting a DMP3 and seeing if could be beefed up into even a better pre. Looks like it might be a do-able thing… You know MAudio probably cut every corner they could to lower cost. Put the corners back on and we might have a nice little pre.

 

[Orpheus]

well, you probably can replace the capacitors and pots with much better ones and have a little improvement.... even change out the resistors for metal film types. however, i don't think it's worth investing that much money when you can buy a better pre for the same amount.

 

[chessrock]

A better candidate might be the Rane MS1B (another budget 163-based mic pre).

They post full schematics online.

 

[Flatpicker]

A better candidate might be the Rane MS1B (another budget 163-based mic pre).

They post full schematics online.

Yeah, I've been looking at that one too. But, for way less money, the DMP3 has two channels and meters!

 

[acorec]

How does it compare to the DMP3 and other pres you have?

BTW, does anyone know right off hand which Burr Brown chip is in the DMP3? There should be another chip(s) in there used for a line amp. Anyone know what it is?

There is absolutely no contest here. The VM is all over the DMP3. I am ONLY talking about the pre-amp on the VM vs the DMP3.

I have now used the DMP3 and find it excellent at drum work. That is what I thought initially. It is good on vocals, but the VM pro is much more detailed.

 

[Flatpicker]

There is absolutely no contest here. The VM is all over the DMP3. I am ONLY talking about the pre-amp on the VM vs the DMP3.

I have now used the DMP3 and find it excellent at drum work. That is what I thought initially. It is good on vocals, but the VM pro is much more detailed.

Thanks. I always wondered about the VM. I wish they'd make a unit with just 2 channels of pres.

 

[chessrock]

I have now used the DMP3 and find it excellent at drum work. That is what I thought initially. It is good on vocals, but the VM pro is much more detailed.

I have a good friend/client who uses the Trackmaster (the VM's sibling), and his stuff always sounds great (helps that he's just a good musician, of course ).

My instincts tell me the DMP3 might just have a flatter, more natural response. Lets more of the bass through without added high end boost. It's designed and marketed as a simple, no-frills, no-color mic pre. What goes in is pretty much what comes out -- which is a pretty amazing thing for what is now a $120 box.


The extra detail in the VM sounds like it might be a natural boosting of the high end.

Keep in mind who the VM is designed for and marketed to, and it's intended purpose. The idea is to give an amateur or a musician the ability to dial in a slicker, more "produced" sound without necessarily having the skills of a producer. It's clearly marketed to the DIY'er, the project studio or the novice engineer. Naturally, this kind of thing isn't going to go over well with the more experienced professionals out there. Their natural instinct will be to call it a toy. No ratio or attack controls on the comp? Not to mention giving funny names like "breath" to the frequency bands on the EQ secion . . . is no way to endear it to the experienced pro, unless it's as a joke "Where's the 'soar' control and the 'suck' knob?" they're going to ask.

It's not marketed to these guys, anyway, so even if it sounds brilliant (and it does sound pretty good for the money), you're not going to hear any of them admitting it.

 

[Rev E]

It's not marketed to these guys [pros], anyway, so even if it sounds brilliant (and it does sound pretty good for the money), you're not going to hear any of them admitting it.

Plus, why bother with the lesser stuff if you have the resources to use the upper end Focusrite stuff (Red and Blue ranges)?

 

[acorec]

I have a good friend/client who uses the Trackmaster (the VM's sibling), and his stuff always sounds great (helps that he's just a good musician, of course ).

My instincts tell me the DMP3 might just have a flatter, more natural response. Lets more of the bass through without added high end boost. It's designed and marketed as a simple, no-frills, no-color mic pre. What goes in is pretty much what comes out -- which is a pretty amazing thing for what is now a $120 box.


The extra detail in the VM sounds like it might be a natural boosting of the high end.

Keep in mind who the VM is designed for and marketed to, and it's intended purpose. The idea is to give an amateur or a musician the ability to dial in a slicker, more "produced" sound without necessarily having the skills of a producer. It's clearly marketed to the DIY'er, the project studio or the novice engineer. Naturally, this kind of thing isn't going to go over well with the more experienced professionals out there. Their natural instinct will be to call it a toy. No ratio or attack controls on the comp? Not to mention giving funny names like "breath" to the frequency bands on the EQ secion . . . is no way to endear it to the experienced pro, unless it's as a joke "Where's the 'soar' control and the 'suck' knob?" they're going to ask.

It's not marketed to these guys, anyway, so even if it sounds brilliant (and it does sound pretty good for the money), you're not going to hear any of them admitting it.

I don't know about this one. I cruised the internet and found a staggering amount of upper level pro studios who have and use the VM pro. The gold standard, of coarse, is Abby Road who have many of them in all 3 studios. So, I guess that all these studios employ amateur engineers. Fine with me! I would rather have an amateur engineer at Abby Road record my songs with a VM Platunum than a real pro engineer using a DMP3 any day!

 

[Middleman]

If you check out the focusrite site, they are still getting some top level positive reviews on the VM Pro.

http://www.focusrite.com/index2.html

Also it has earned some respectable awards:
Future Music - Gear of the Year
Pro Audio - Par Excellence Award

All of these publications gave it a thumbs up :
Sound on Sound Mag
Future Music Mag
Pro Audio Reveiw
Audio Media
Resolution

Not that any of this means anything in this pay for exposure world of ours but its worth a listen.

 

[Teacher]

I don't know about this one. I cruised the internet and found a staggering amount of upper level pro studios who have and use the VM pro. The gold standard, of coarse, is Abby Road who have many of them in all 3 studios. So, I guess that all these studios employ amateur engineers. Fine with me! I would rather have an amateur engineer at Abby Road record my songs with a VM Platunum than a real pro engineer using a DMP3 any day!

i'd say the exact opposite...i'd rather have george massenberg or(insert great mixer here) at my home studio then some amateur intern at some of those expensive LA, NYC, or nashville studio's with as much outboard and tape as i want... i just think skill, experience and talent are worth way more then any SSL or whatever...IMHO of course

 

[acorec]

i'd say the exact opposite...i'd rather have george massenberg or(insert great mixer here) at my home studio then some amateur intern at some of those expensive LA, NYC, or nashville studio's with as much outboard and tape as i want... i just think skill, experience and talent are worth way more then any SSL or whatever...IMHO of course

I don't disagree with that. But, comparing a DMP3 to a VM pro and calling the VM pro a "toy" is ridiculous.

 

[Teacher]

o ok....yea chess loves him some m-audio

 

[chessrock]

I don't disagree with that. But, comparing a DMP3 to a VM pro and calling the VM pro a "toy" is ridiculous.

Actually, most of the pros would probably consider both to be toys.

No one here said they don't sound good. I'm just trying to explain to you why the more experienced AE's like to dog it so much and turn their collective nose up at it.

It offers a lot of short-cut, non-techy-type features that are obviously intended for the novice. If you can't see that, then you're not very observant. You just don't see "breath" controls on most pro-level gear and a lot of the old-school guys would frankly be insulted by it. The interface, layout, and options are just far too limited and frankly "gimmicky" for an experienced pro to take it seriously (which is okay, because that's not who focusrite is marketing it for). Maybe they're missing out and it sounds great, but that's the way it is.

The reason you see it at so many studios is probably because they rent their space out to clientelle of all different experience levels, and I'm sure the interface appeals to a lot of the guys who have more of a music background than an engineering background. And because it sounds good, and it's by focusrite.

 

[Middleman]

Then again, how could I trust a device with only 3 knobs and a switch? Also found in every major studio.

 

[chessrock]

Yea, but where's the "breath" control on that thing?

 

[Middleman]

Yea, but where's the "breath" control on that thing?

Breath control is what you do after lugging one of these babies around and putting it in a rack!