DJL vs. Studio Projects

  • Thread starter Thread starter capnreverb
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Actually, RickW and Xstatic make some great points that reach for a larger discusion. I will use myself as an example. I record a lot of music and have put out a lot of music, mostly on my small label, but others places as well. I have gotten some great reviews, and a few bad ones. I really enjoy recording music, but I can not subsist on my label sales. A lot of music that I play/record and am interested in is a bit out there and experimental, so, is never going to bring a lot of money. A few of my titles have sold 3-400 copies or so.
so,

Am I a profesional? And what does that mean?

I recorded my first bands cd on a crappy 4track with some cheap mics and very little experience. It got great reviews in Magnet and Alternative Press. None of them mentioned the production quality. When I hear that first cd now all I can hear is tape hiss. But, obviously there was something quality about it, or it would of been panned or not reviewed at all. I believe since that first cd i have gotten much better at recording. If I let myself be limited by what I could afford to buy, believing that only high end German mics do the trick, I would have never even tried. I wish I had the $ for Schoeps, Royer, U47/57/87's, but I don't, so I use what I have. And, according to the reviews I have gotten, I seem to be doing OK with my at4033's, at3025's and GT61's.

This site has been such a godsend for me in terms of learning about what to buy. Where else could I go to read such heated discusions about SDC's, which mic preamp under $500 is the best, and mic placements etc.

I like the fact that PMI guys come in here and talk about their products. I agree that it would be cool if behringer, rode, audio technica, etc. guys would come here and talk about their products. One of the reasons why I bought a matched pair of c4's last week was because of two reasons. One is that most folks on this board think they are a good value for their price. I was gonna buy the Oktava's, but this boards frowning on QC made me weary of guitar centers offering. They might be better mics, and someday I hope to find out, but for now, the C4's are my choice. The other factor in my purchase was the fact that PMI comes here and discusses their products. I feel like alan will listen to my problems if I had one (whats with the plastic threading on the c4 shockmounts? that aint gonna last!).

A lot of records I really enjoy did not have the benefit of super amazing production value. I wish Rudy Van Gelder recorded the whole ESP catalogue, but he didnt, so a lot of those Albert Ayler, Sun Ra, and Frank Wright lp's sound kind of thin and muddy, but they are amazing. Those Sun Ra Saturn Lps sound like they were recorded with the most meager of equipment, and they are amazing. That is, the music, not the production. A lot of 80's hardcore and punk was recorded under less than ideal conditions, but they still sound immediate and great.

A studio project mic might not be a u87, but if you've got something to say, and others want to hear it, its a great fricken tool. A lot of those early Sun/Atlantic records have crappy production qualities by todays standards, but they still sound great. Ray Charles and Carl Perkins still sound great. A lot of those Chess 78's that I have are not HiFi, but they sound just great. I have no idea what mic Blind Willie Johnson used in the 20's, but my 78 of Dark Was The Night, Cold Was The Ground gives me fricken goosebumps, crackle and lofi and all.

I would agree that someone who has not used a certain mic should offer no opinion what so ever on that mic. Nady has a bad rep, but I would never talk crap about any of their products because I have never used them. That should be the golden rule of this mic forum. Unless you have used a mic in said discussion, don't comment on it. To comment on the worth/quality on a product you have never used is worse than spam.


I will got off my long winded soapbox now.
 
DJL has been asked many times to "put up or shut up". If I havent heard someones work, I wouldnt possibly listen to their opinion on hardware.
 
Well, I attempted to push this thread in a direction less aimed at DJL, and more at principle. Oh well. Thanks everybody for their input. There have already possibly been some useful things happen in this thread. It may be more appropriate for the Dragon Cave, but here it is anyways.

One other thing I have noticed. Many people seem to think that home recording means "cheap". That is not true in the least. Every person recording at home operates under different circumstances. That means budget as well. Not only that, but wanting a Neve or API preamp doesn't make you elitist, and owning tem does not make you commercial. I actually have a client who is possibly running into a VERY large sum of money soon. He may build a private studio in his house and it may well be based around a Neve, SSL, or API console. Technically that still qualifies as Home Recording. I should hope that he would be "allowed" to post at a site like this without any hassle. He is by no means an elitist, but wants to get the best tools that he can for the job. His budget just happens to allow for far more than the normal end user.

It is kind of nice to hear from some others who think and feel the same way I do. At the same time though, I think it is pretty hypocritical for nyone to attack DJL openly for his actions. That puts us on the same level commiting the same infractions. I also agree 100% that DJLK has the right to believe what he/she wants, and has the right to state it. I just wish it could be done with a little more tact, and maybe not nearly so frequently concerning the same issue. DJL's opinion is valid, at least for DJL, and maybe for some others as well. I don't have to like it, but I choose to respect it as just that. His/her opinion. I feel that upon stating of that opinion, that definately opens the door for Alan (and any other SP affiliates and users) to rebuke. Once again, I think it only needs to be done once though. When I have an idea or thought concernign a clients music from a tracking standpoint, mixing, arranging, composing, producing or whatever, I always let them know. I don't expect them to like it, use it or anything. I do however expect them to hear me out and then make an informed decision. I would much rather throw an idea out there and have it shot down then wait till the CD comes back from press and then mention it and have the band love the idea.
 
I think of Home Rec as the "HOT" forums where you can get trashed out fairly quickly by almost anyone. I used to think of it in a bad way but I now more think of it in a Coke versus Pepsi way.

I have been as guilty as anyone in being a hothead in my posts here. I think I've learned from my mistakes.
 
Yes, attacking him is lame. But simply asking him to post a few snipets of his awesome engineering skill is not. Im starting to wonder if hes even just a simple home recordist, or a 10 yr old kid with too much time on his hands.
 
xstatic said:
One other thing I have noticed. Many people seem to think that home recording means "cheap". That is not true in the least.
I'm afraid it is for most of us. I don't know what planet you live on.

Every person recording at home operates under different circumstances. That means budget as well. Not only that, but wanting a Neve or API preamp doesn't make you elitist, and owning tem does not make you commercial. I actually have a client who is possibly running into a VERY large sum of money soon. He may build a private studio in his house and it may well be based around a Neve, SSL, or API console. Technically that still qualifies as Home Recording. I should hope that he would be "allowed" to post at a site like this without any hassle. He is by no means an elitist, but wants to get the best tools that he can for the job. His budget just happens to allow for far more than the normal end user.
We're glad to hear from him and anybody else who has high end equipment. There are many posters here who fall into that category. Most of them are helpful and have a non-elitist attitude.

...I don't have to like it, but I choose to respect it as just that....Once again, I think it only needs to be done once though....
DJ posts the same drivel ad infinitum. We've heard him out ad nauseum. I have the same respect for him that I have for people who walk their dogs in the park and let them crap all over and don't clean it up.
 
ausrock said:
QUOTE..............."Lets see, the last time I jumped on PMI was for posting misleading information for the reason to sell a product"

Wrong DJ................how about this inane comment you made within the last 24 hours........"And IMO, the real reason for the color dot system was so PMI doesn't have to deal with the QC of the large variations between mic outputs"
No... the last time I jumped on PMI/Alan was for posting misleading information for the reason to sell a product... but it is ture that IMO, the real reason for the color dot system was so PMI doesn't have to deal with the QC of the large variations between mic outputs... and IMO the B1 sucks as a vocal mic too... and if you don't like that... too bad. :p

There are not many rules that the Dragon setup when he started this bss... but "no spam" is at the top of the list... and if misleading infomation for the reason to sell a product is allowed here, then this bbs loses all of it integrity.
Vikki said:
Actually i think it brings more attention to Alans products, i know when djl was having a dig on one thread it turned me to go and have a look at Alans web site. DJl you could be helping Alan to sell more mics!
Vikki(uk)
That may be true or not... and I don't know, nor do I care... but, I'm still going post my opinions. But thanks Vikki and I hope you enjoy you knew mics... the 451 and 414 are good mics.

This my last post in this thread,
Don
 
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DJL said:
No... the last time I jumped on PMI/Alan was for posting misleading information for the reason to sell a product... but it is ture that IMO, the real reason for the color dot system was so PMI doesn't have to deal with the QC of the large variations between mic outputs... and IMO the B1 sucks as a vocal mic too... and if you don't like that... too bad. :p

This my last post in this thread,
Don

Just to clarify here, the color dot system is a QC process by nature. Some companies just state that there is a 4dB +/- variation, etc. We state where any variation happens to fall in more exacting terms. It's simply information we happen to give about our mics. If we did not use the dot system, it would be one less QC process. All condenser microphone capsules have slight variations in sensitivity. It doesn't matter where on Earth they are assembled or by whom. If a company were to use only capsules of exact sensitivity, most of their units would be rejected and the company likely bankrupt.
The facility where our capsules are assembled is very good. Their measurement equipment (Brüel & Kjaer or designed/built on site) appears to be in good working order and calibrated often. They have the largest and best equipped anechoic chamber in the entire country.
DJL: I'm sorry you're not getting good results with the B1. Perhaps you could run a couple of tracks with the B1 and perhaps a V67 so we could hear them. I have pretty good ears and may be able to identify some possible bugs in your system or your room. We've seen you state many times that the B1 "sucks eggs on vocals" and from experience I know that this is very often not the fault of the mic. Also, being that I am very familiar with the B1 design and overall performance, there is nothing in my experience to indicate that the B1 would be yielding the terrible results you have consistently gotten with it. More often than not, there are other contributing factors. I'd be happy to help out and I'm sure there are other people on the board that would be willing to give a listen along with some possible recommendations. That's basically why we're all here.

I'm Brent Casey and I approved this message.
PMI Audio Group
877-563-6335
 
You know I got rid of my SP mics a long time ago... and I don't need your help... lol. Have fun with your pancake mix and egg beaters surfer. Good bye
 
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What is the reason behind this revision?

The original:

You know I got rid of my B1's a long time... anyway, this my last post to this cave type thread.

The revision:

You know I got rid of my SP mics a long time ago... and I don't need your help... lol. Have fun with your pancake mix and egg beaters surfer. Good bye
 
DJL said:
Have fun with your pancake mix and egg beaters surfer. Good bye

To the HR uninitiated, this would appear to be a very strange statement.

Imagine for a moment that all HR people are in a big room together dressed in Victorian garb. DJL delivers this line in a curt British accent with a pause between "surfer" and "goodbye" and then stalks out of the room, powdered wig flapping, slamming the door on the way out.


<ahem...>


Well anyway, back to work.

Brent Casey
PMI Audio Group
877-563-6335
 
mshilarious, you miss the third edit... lol.

Brent, if you really want to help... make sure PMI doesn't post anymore misleading info, spam, and etc on this bbs.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marik
At one point DJL was a gentlemen and told that he gets off Alan's back. I felt very happy and almost emotional, then. Unfortunately, it turned out that DJL is not a man of his word, which BTW, is not that big of surprise. Anyway, I payed attention that lately Alan just ignores cheap pockings, which IMO is the best way to deal with situation.


DJL said:
I hate spam and misleading info... from PMI or any other company.

It doesn't matter what do you like or what do you hate.... you did not keep your word, which speaks for itself. And BTW, I won't tell you how much misleading information I've heard from you.

You are who you are-- enjoy yourself.
 
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