Distorted guitar mids

[ecktronic]

Ouch.
What I'm refering to is the one labeled "Presence." You know the knob I'm refering to. And it's all over that example you posted, and it's mucking up that guitar with a bunch of nasty harmonics; essentially creating a layer of white noise, drowning out any definition and/or power from a guitar track. First of all, you need to turn that shit knob to the left. Not to the right.

Forgot to ask, aswell as not using the presence knob what about using push in buttons like "Tone switch" which scoops out the mids, and the "Deep switch" which is meant to add a tight low end? Will they add nasty phasing also? (on my Marshall DSL50)

I will post my new distorted amp recordings in the next few days.

Cheers,
Eck

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

Yeah I kinda thought that I wouldn't get decent results from a GT6 pedal. Glad you cleared that one up for me.
I recorded my Marshall last night using only amp distortion.
I had to boost the high end to almost full, and the mids and low to almost nothing. It actually sounds half decent. Its nowhere near as harsh as my old recordings, maybe a bit more upfront sounding. Maybe a tad thin but I think my amp is feked.
It has to be feked if I can only get a half un-muddy recording with the low and the mids almost at 0, and the high at full.

btw Im using a PRS McCarty Soapbar on the bridge pickup with tone set to 10, which is a pretty cutting guitar so its not the guitar making the tone muddy. I think I need new speakers and tubes.

Cheers,
Eck

Marshall with mids to almost zero and highs to almost full?

-Timedog

 

[chessrock]

Marshall with mids to almost zero and highs to almost full?

-Timedog

Yea, I'd say either your amp ... or your ears ... are broken if that's the case.

Maybe both.

Eck, you're not listening. Try turning the mids "up." Thanks.

.

 

[HangDawg]

Now I realize this is probably going to be a painful and difficult thing, but I'm familiar with the rectum-fryers ... and I can hear that suck knob from a mile away. What I'm refering to is the one labeled "Presence." You know the knob I'm refering to. And it's all over that example you posted, and it's mucking up that guitar with a bunch of nasty harmonics; essentially creating a layer of white noise, drowning out any definition and/or power from a guitar track.

The suck knob on my rectum-fryer works just fine. So does the rest of the eq section. But it made a trip to voodoo and had some work done on it. You can't just assume that every one of the rectifiers is garbage or the presence control is instant suck. I think you are probably right in this case however.

 

[HangDawg]

Yeah I usually do back off the distortion a good bit.
I was using about 50% distortion.

I noticed my last link to my best guitar recording sitn working so heres a new link.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8216

Cheers,
Eck

Here's how I hear it. If you listen to one of these songs and you can't learn the guitar parts because it's a wash of fizz, turn down the gain. I know it's been said but it's worth repeating. Turn it WAY DOWN! And when you think it's where it might work well, turn it down again. Maybe start at the bottom, like 9'oclock and work your way up instead. Keep in mind too that there is a fine line between clean, slightly breaking up and punchy metal tone. On my rectifier it all happens between 10oclock and about 1:30

 

[eeb]

although i'm not familiar with this particular amp.. I'll assume that it's a tube amp if we're talking about the "presence" knob..

and if you think the presence knob= the suck knob then you don't know anything about how to use a tube amp.. go buy a solid state amp.

many folk will agree that the presence knob will help with the "warmth" of the amp.. Now don't turn it all the way up unless that's what you want.. spend lots of time tweaking your sound until you find the sound for you.

I agree with not scooping the mids.. you need the mids... actually you really shouldn't be "scooping" anything... i'm not sure if someone mentioned turning the gain down a bit but that often helps.. with a real problem distortion sound i'll sometimes mix a clean and distortion track together.. The clean track will obviously have to be lower in the mix but this sometimes adds a bit of clairty to the notes and choards being played. (same concept as micing the bass amp and di'ing it)

edit: hangdawg I guess we were both thinking about the gain at the same time

 

[starbuck26]

MIDS on ZERO??????????

Yo dudes...

I use this page as a resource. Just basically read through posts and search out whatever problems I might be having. I'm green enough that every problem I've discovered has been answered in some way or another, so I haven't bothered to put my thoughts out there.

Until I read this post.

Jesus, man. MIDS on ZERO? Crank that to 10 for the next three weeks and see if your ears can hear the difference between a guitar and a guitar in an old rusty can of beans floating off the coast of new jersey circa 1987.

And dude... multieffects, GT-6, etc? Big, wet fart. With a leak running down the inside of your thigh. Box it up and mail it to an unspecified address in North Korea.

Really, though, I think the problem starts with your actual tone, not the tone of the guitar through recording. I suspect that if I came to hear a show I would notice how thin and scratchy the guitars sounded. Put your mics away for a little while, pull your head out of the cans, crank your amp until it starts to make your grundle vibrate, and find what you are looking for. Then, put a mic in front of it and capture it.

Try looking for that magnum opus written by... who was it... it's like 100 pages of cracked out guitar recording advice... a great read... posted somewhere on here... can't find it... you know the one... someone help me out.

tom

 

[ecktronic]

Yea, I'd say either your amp ... or your ears ... are broken if that's the case.

Maybe both.

Eck, you're not listening. Try turning the mids "up." Thanks.

.

The main problem is definitely my amp. My ears are far from pros ears when it comes to recording (different kettle of fish for mixing and mastering) but yeah almost full high on a Marshall JCM2000 should be screamingly harsh.
With the mids up all I got was a very dull lifeless, very very muddy sound. Yeah I could scoop out the low mids at mix down but I am trying to use as little EQ at mix down to get a more pro sounding guitar.

Eck

 

[eeb]

ahhhh I really don't like the marshall distortion sound to begin with but that's just personal taste... hrmm when you're messing with the knobs do you here that awefull "grinding (for lack of another word)" sound... maybe you have some dirty pods?? how are your tubes? if you have a blown tube maybe it's the culprit ... hrmm i don't know what else it could be. i'm not the best at troubleshooting amps.. good luck

 

[ecktronic]

Jesus, man. MIDS on ZERO? Crank that to 10 for the next three weeks and see if your ears can hear the difference between a guitar and a guitar in an old rusty can of beans floating off the coast of new jersey circa 1987.
tom

My ears aren't as bad as you may think.
I have come to the conclusion that my amp must have something wrong with it. Cranking the mids even to like 3 creates a horrible muddyness that looses any of the small amount of clarity my amp may be able to produce.
I think my speakers (and maybe even the tubes) were bust from day one since it was a display amp.

Eck

 

[ecktronic]

ahhhh I really don't like the marshall distortion sound to begin with but that's just personal taste... hrmm when you're messing with the knobs do you here that awefull "grinding (for lack of another word)" sound... maybe you have some dirty pods?? how are your tubes? if you have a blown tube maybe it's the culprit ... hrmm i don't know what else it could be. i'm not the best at troubleshooting amps.. good luck

No noise atall when turning any knobs. All is fine there.
Had my amp over 3 years and It was a display amp and cab so tubes might be absolutely in tatters although I don't know for certain.

Eck

 

[HangDawg]

My ears aren't as bad as you may think.
I have come to the conclusion that my amp must have something wrong with it. Cranking the mids even to like 3 creates a horrible muddyness that looses any of the small amount of clarity my amp may be able to produce.
I think my speakers (and maybe even the tubes) were bust from day one since it was a display amp.

Eck

Must be something wrong. Clarity lies in the mid range so if you are losing it, there could be issues. Buy some new tubes, they're not that expensive. Eurotubes.com will hook ya up cheaper than most.

 

[chessrock]

although i'm not familiar with this particular amp.. I'll assume that it's a tube amp if we're talking about the "presence" knob..

and if you think the presence knob= the suck knob then you don't know anything about how to use a tube amp.. go buy a solid state amp.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

Did you even listen to those examples he posted?

Are you that deaf to where you can't hear the "dentist drill" sound going on up there around 5-10K ?

What the hell do you think is responsible for all that crap if it's not that God-awful "presence" knob? You even said yourself you've never used the amp. So don't comment on what you don't know a damn thing about. I know that amp, and all it took was about 5 seconds worth of listening to his track before I could hear the culprit ... like a phukin' hive of bees putting a hundred stingers in my ear drums. Holy crap.

If you actually bothered to download his examples and view them in an audio editor ... you'll actually see there's more dynamics going on than a lot of heavy guitar tracks -- most, in fact. There's just this feakin' layer of fizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzkkkkkkwweeeeoooowwwccccccrrrrrzzzzzzz going on on top of everything. Can you honestly say you can't hear that crap?

I swear most of you idiots are as freakin' deaf as door nails. Pull your ears out of your ass holes and listen for once. Heavy, powerful guitar tracks do not sound good when there's a constant layer of what sounds like a cross between an electric razor, a dentist drill and a blender on top of it all. That shit just doesn't belong there. OH THE HUMANITY ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

[Sonixx]

Chess, is any of your heavy guitar tracking, mixing available for listen?

 

[pezking]

Chess, is any of your heavy guitar tracking, mixing available for listen?

Good call

Eck - send your amp to marshall for servicing and a revalve. I have a JCM900 and they quoted me a couple of years ago £40 for a service, or £60 for a service and revalve which I should really pursue; I have a couple of problems with my amp too. Their returns department (who organise servicing) is 01908 375411.

I doubt your speakers are the problem, but perhaps you could try out another cab to be sure. Try borrowing one or ring up a shop saying you're interested in buying a cab and ask to take your head along to try it out.

 

[legionserial]

I would agree with Chessrock on the presence thing. Personal opinion maybe, but that knob is always set to zero on my amps. Tube or no. Otherwise I know it's just another messy EQ cut I'm going to have to make in mixing.

After the early days for me, of recording direct from my amp, I developed an irrational fear of fizz.

I also hate scoop buttons, but one of my amps has a contour dial where you can vary the gradient of the scoop, or go in the opposite direction and give it a bit more honk if needs be. I like that, but I sure as hell don't scoop with it. It sits at 5 or below most of the time.

And I have a hybrid with a presence dial, and have had solid states with one too. So I don't know what the 'presence dial - tube amp' thing is about.

 

[chessrock]

Chess, is any of your heavy guitar tracking, mixing available for listen?

Yea.

But I doubt it would be of any benefit to someone who doesn't even know what a good guitar track even sounds like.

But yea, PM me, and I'll be glad to shoot over a link. For whatever the hell that might be worth.


.

 

[HangDawg]

Yea.

But I doubt it would be of any benefit to someone who doesn't even know what a good guitar track even sounds like.

But yea, PM me, and I'll be glad to shoot over a link. For whatever the hell that might be worth.


.

Why not post it here? I like to hear something as well.

 

[ecktronic]

Good call

Eck - send your amp to marshall for servicing and a revalve. I have a JCM900 and they quoted me a couple of years ago £40 for a service, or £60 for a service and revalve which I should really pursue; I have a couple of problems with my amp too. Their returns department (who organise servicing) is 01908 375411.

I doubt your speakers are the problem, but perhaps you could try out another cab to be sure. Try borrowing one or ring up a shop saying you're interested in buying a cab and ask to take your head along to try it out.

Im going to order some decent tubes from Eurotubes.com
From my description of the tone I was looking for, they said I should go for a matched pair of JJ KT77’s and four ECC83S's (one balanced for the Phase splitter)

Eck

 

[zoiks]

Yea.

But I doubt it would be of any benefit to someone who doesn't even know what a good guitar track even sounds like.

But yea, PM me, and I'll be glad to shoot over a link. For whatever the hell that might be worth.


.

What better way is there for someone to learn than by hearing an expertly crafted sound? I'm sure there's loads here, me included, who'd like to hear what we should be aiming for.