Disassembling FATAR keyboard to clean - Help!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Toddskins
  • Start date Start date
Hi John

Thank you so much for all the info and help... I used the service manual to disassemble the 2600 and I'm glad i did because there are many steps that move in specific sequence that I would have never figured out.. Once I got the key bed out of the unit, everything that you and others have described was exactly as I saw it.. I disassembled all the keys and gave a very thorough cleaning using 99% alcohol to all the contacts and that solved all of the velocity problems... The black semi weighted key ( a bit different that the full hammer action keys) that were giving me a tapping problem was a similar issue in that the enclosure for the weight on most of the black keys were either cracked or completely broken off therefore the weight was actually slipping down and hitting the wood base for the key bed... I used plastic surgery glue and sealed all the cracks and attached all the broken parts and its holding very strong.. I couldnt break them back apart..... In short the k2600 is back together and working like a new keyboard... I think I will open it up again in 4-6 months and see if its all held together.. It was an awesome learning experience and not to mention probably saved hundreds of dollars...
I really want to thank you
Sal
 
I have a Fatar Studio 2001 keyboard, the original flightcased model. Anyway, a lot of the keys sound "clunky" and one of the D#'s is dead, although if pressed causes the other notes played to hang until I press a preset button. I also have a Samick 88 key controller keyboard with a much superior action to the Fatar, but it weighs a ton and does not have the features of the Fatar. I wonder if it would be possible to switch the keybeds out.
 
Greetings. First of all I'd like to thank everyone here (especially Toddskins and JaydeeMtl) for the wealth of amazing information here. I've been a lurker on this thread for almost a year now. I have finally gotten the time (and the confidence) to take my road cased Fatar Studio 1100 apart to clean the unit, replace the pads, and investigate all the clacking. I started the project two days ago, and I don't think I've created a doorstop just yet. (but I'm working on it!)

I have a broken key as well. I found a replacement online, believe it or not (assuming all goes well with the auction.) When I took off the keys, I also found one broken keyweight. I've ordered a new one via Instermentalparts. We'll see how long that takes to come in. I found a broken tab or so in all the junk that came out of the dirty keyboard, but I've not removed the keyweights yet to investigate. I'm not sure if I'm willing to go the lengths that you guys did to glue them and do preventative maintenance on them. I may eat my words later...

I remember a post by JaydeeMtl where you were talking about the felt strips. I went through this thread again a couple more times this morning until my brain started hurting to hurt trying to find it. I couldn't seem to locate it, so I'll just paraphrase. You were saying that after you removed and turned around the felt strip (with an offset) that the black keys went down too far (comparatively speaking with the newly fixed white keys). Then, you gave 3 possible solutions. I don't remember which solution you did... I just remember this was around when you figured out the issues with your frame alignment.

So, here's my questions regarding that:

1. Which solution did you do, if any
2. What kind of glue did you use to re-glue the felt strip after you removed it?
3. I noticed another felt strip on the underside of the assembly. That seems to be the one that the black keys hit. Note the pictures that I posted... it's a black felt strip higher up... and it's been cut to make way for the holes. It, like the other felt strip that was mentioned, is uneven and worn in the places where the keys strike. Because of the cuttings in the felt, an offset doesn't seem to be an option, and I don't know if I have the patience to get a new felt strip and cut all those precise holes. (If I'm being lazy here, feel free to scold me.) One thing I've been considering is putting little tabs of self adhesive velcro (the fuzzy side) on the areas where the black keys hit the felt. Has anyone opinions on this?

Note the felt strip on the top:

2011-11-23 10.30.32.webp

A closer, yet blurrier (and larger for some reason I don't understand) view:
2011-11-23 10.30.42.webp
 
Hi Blatboy,

Yes, it turned out that the frame was bent but as you read, I noticed it much too late. I had already removed the felt strip for the white keys and offset it to compensate. Later I removed it again and put it right back where it was originally!! It was murder to remove and I was lucky to not damage the underside rubber it was glued on - if you lok closely, the assembly is composite of a 1mm thick rubber glued to the frame and then the felt glued onto the rubber. If my memory serves me well, 2 of the 4 felt strips carry the aftertouch ribbon sandwiched in between. Anyways, my keyboard was that way, check wether yours is the same. No secret glue: be careful and apply a good grade contact cement - read the label on the can/tube; be careful that it is spread out evenly with no bumps.

Had the felt been a big problem and if I had to change both, including the one for the black keys (it has a bunch of semi-circle cutouts), I think I would have been "screwed" because it would have been a lot of work finding new felt and making the cutouts properly.

So far, nearly a year has gone by and all is well. Its the same old felt in the same old place and that doesn't seem to be causing any problem so far. In that respect, you might not have to install that strip of velcro after all.

For the keyweights: seeing the keybed is fully disassembled, you may as well look into what shape the weights are in. At least fix the ones that are about to break completely. Failing that, you may find that you have to take the whole thing apart again in a few months. But who knows, maybe that nylon can still take a lot of abuseand not break so quickly. I'm just saying to grab the opportunity to do mega-maintenance if you have the time and dedication :)

John
 
Hi there,
i have read all the threads (puh) but i can't get my Fatar Studiologic SL-880 to run perfectly. Most off the keys (not all) are giving no tone, when i hit slightly the key. I have to hit them harder. So i have a velocity problem. Following the first threads i cleaned the Contacts and the rubber stuff in several ways. Nothing helped. So i ordered new rubber bands from US. But that didn't fix the problem. So i opened it again (in think 10 times open, unscrewing, cleaning, screwing and close), cleaned it again (with several sorts of alcohol). But always the same. Does somebody has the ultimative trick, before i throw it into the waste? Sorry for my bad language, but i'm german...
Thanks a lot and greets from cologne
Harald
 
I have a fairly new (18 months) but little used, Fatar TP40WOOD keybed. It is cased in a wooden cabinet, with a DIY Midibox interface. This is connected to a PC by USB and I have Pianoteq and Native Instruments Hammond B4 (cut down version) soft synths.

The project works fine however I think that the clatter from the keys (both pressing and releasing) is too loud.

The problem is caused by the hammers/ counterweights striking the rubber/felt strips.

I think that the problem is aggravated by mounting the keybed directly to the wooden base. I probably should have used some shock mounts or rubber pads.

However I think that the impact noise may be reduced by using an alternative sound absorbent strip. Maybe a gel strip or some foam strip would be quieter than the rubber/felt provided by Fatar.

I would appreciate any suggestions.


Regards Robin
 
hal2000 said:
Hi there,
i have read all the threads (puh) but i can't get my Fatar Studiologic SL-880 to run perfectly. Most off the keys (not all) are giving no tone, when i hit slightly the key. I have to hit them harder. So i have a velocity problem. Following the first threads i cleaned the Contacts and the rubber stuff in several ways. Nothing helped. So i ordered new rubber bands from US. But that didn't fix the problem. So i opened it again (in think 10 times open, unscrewing, cleaning, screwing and close), cleaned it again (with several sorts of alcohol). But always the same. Does somebody has the ultimative trick, before i throw it into the waste? Sorry for my bad language, but i'm german...
Thanks a lot and greets from cologne
Harald
Click to expand...

Hi Harald,

You certainly seem to have done all the right things and obviously the rubber contacts are not reversed otherwise you'd get full sounds all the time. Seems like a velocity curve problem so try to program another curve - I dunno how to do that 'cause I don't have an SL-880. However, I gleaned this info from this thread, suggesting you do a factory reset of the board just in case the velocity curves might be screwed up. Resetting: "done by holding down all three UP-DOWN-ENTER buttons for a few seconds while powering-on." It solved the problem for that particular user.

A test: press a key slowly but press it hard when it gets to the bottom. Do you hear sound?

Suggestion: if you replaced a rubber contact strip and still have a problem, it could be that the carbon traces on the pc board are worn.

Failing that, take out the keybed (and lay it flat on a long table) or unscrew the end bell so you can observe the key plunge travel distance from the keytabs to the rubber contact strip. If for some reason, the front rubber contact is not being activated when you press the key down, look for a bent frame or the foam/felt strip bulging (unlikely).

John
 
robinfawell said:
I have a fairly new (18 months) but little used, Fatar TP40WOOD keybed. It is cased in a wooden cabinet, with a DIY Midibox interface. This is connected to a PC by USB and I have Pianoteq and Native Instruments Hammond B4 (cut down version) soft synths.

The project works fine however I think that the clatter from the keys (both pressing and releasing) is too loud.

The problem is caused by the hammers/ counterweights striking the rubber/felt strips.

I think that the problem is aggravated by mounting the keybed directly to the wooden base. I probably should have used some shock mounts or rubber pads.

However I think that the impact noise may be reduced by using an alternative sound absorbent strip. Maybe a gel strip or some foam strip would be quieter than the rubber/felt provided by Fatar.

I would appreciate any suggestions.


Regards Robin
Click to expand...


Hi,

Take a real good look at what may be causing the noise before you do any modifications to those strips!

I think the wooden box is acting like a speaker box and amplifying the noise. Sound abosrbent material lining the inside of the box and, as per your suggestion to put the keybed on some sort of absorbent/cushion material; may help. Also, find a way to isolate the screws holding the keybed to the box, they also transmit sound to the wood casing.

John
 
velocity problem with keys

Hal2000, I did not have exactly that problem with my Ensoniq--cf early in this discussion--however you might try moving some of the rubber contacts to different locations. You say that some of the keys work okay. Maybe after switching the contacts--moving them around, you'll find something interesting that will help you to diagnose the problem.

I suppose it could be the boards, not the rubber contacts that are the problem, but in my limited experience it has been the contacts.

Good luck.
 
Fatar SL-880 Velocity

Thank you guys for thinking about my problem!
For example: When i hit slightly and soft a key all is doing well. But when i hit the key beneath the same way no sound is coming out.
When i hit it harder sound is coming. So i agree, if i have new rubber bends it could be the pc board. When it would have something
to do with configuration of the curve, the keys beneath would have the same problem. By the way i did a hardware reset and tested
several curve configurations...
So it might be a good idea to change the rubber bends each other in order to check if the key problem changes too.

But what can i do if it ist really a pc board problem. Makes it sense instead of cleaning with alcohol (which didn't help) to do something more
agressive like scratching with a knife or something like that?

Best regards Harald
 
hal2000 said:
But what can i do if it ist really a pc board problem. Makes it sense instead of cleaning with alcohol (which didn't help) to do something more
agressive like scratching with a knife or something like that?

Best regards Harald
Click to expand...

Whatever you do, DON'T scratch the carbon traces on the pc board!! Try to get a new (prefered) or used board to see if that fixes the problem. If you are sure you can get one, then you might consider scratch experiments on the old board. That carbon layer is very thin and scratching it wears it out big time.

John
 
hal2000 said:
But what can i do if it ist really a pc board problem. Makes it sense instead of cleaning with alcohol (which didn't help) to do something more
agressive like scratching with a knife or something like that?

Best regards Harald
Click to expand...

Whatever you do, DON'T scratch the carbon traces on the pc board!! Try to get a new (prefered) or used board to see if that fixes the problem. If you are sure you can get one, then you might consider scratch experiments on the old board. That carbon layer is very thin and scratching it wears it out big time.

John
 
So again: What did i do? I dis- and reassembled the keyboard so often. If i would have got a few bucks per hour, i could buy a Steinway now!
Anyway, i did the following:
1. Cleaned the rubber band (each contact nib) with alkohol | No effect
1. Cleaned the rubber band (each contact nib) with nail-polish-remover | No effect
3. Cleaned the rubber band (each contact nib) with a school-rubber | No effect
4. Cleaned the Contact board with all methods above | No effect
5. Odered new rubber bands from US | No effect
6. Cleaned the Contact board with Iso-Propyl-Alcohol | No effect (i was near to drink it myself)
7. Cleaned one Contact on the Contact board slightly with fine Sandpaper | No effect

So i don't know what to do. I'm really dissapointed. Why am i doing such an effort for a old and not very expensive piano?
Because it has the best hammeraction i ever had.
Does it make sense to get a new contact board? Or does someone has another idea to get similiar good velocities on each key?
I only want a silent tone when i hit the key slightly and a loud one if i hit harder. So i need a velocity curve from 0-128. But the curves begin
at ~60-128. So when i touch a key slightly no tone will appaer.
With my Sl-880 only some keys does that and some not. So it can't be a general electric problem. Should i look at the keys themselves?
Makes it sense to disassemble and clean? Thanks for any hints...
 
Dismantling and cleaning a Fatar Studiologic SL990 Pro

Hi everyone,

Dismantling and cleaning a Fatar Studiologic SL990 Pro

Firstly I'd like to say a big thanks to Toddskins for starting this thread. It has been invaluable to me regarding my SL990. So cheers to him.

Secondly I thought I'd share with everyone my experience of opening, dismantling and cleaning my Fatar Studiologic keyboard if only just to encourage people and letting you know that it's not such a daunting task as perhaps this thread makes it seem. The following process took me a little over an hour whilst watching Bad Santa the other day.

So....

The Problems...

After having bought my keyboard off eBay there were a couple of existing issues....

Firstly, 2 of the keys were broken which although didn't render them unplayable, meant that they no longer 'hooked' underneath the keybed and so bounced up higher than usual after being played.

Secondly, a short while after purchasing the keyboard I noticed that the 2nd F below middle C was not responding correctly. It would play when given a good old bang, but light playing resulted in no sound being produced.


The Solution...

#1 - Prepare

The very first thing I recommend anyone attempting this to do is to read through this entire thread a few times. Also, make sure you register with HomeRecording.com so that you are able to see the photos that people have uploaded. Some parts of the thread won't make sense until you have taken various bits of your keyboard apart and can see exactly how the Fatar keybed fits together - but get yourself familiar with what steps you will need to go through.

#2 - Opening the SL990 Pro

This is VERY easy to do. DO NOT jump stright in and turn the keyboard over and start unscrewing everything - you're just making it harder on yourself. Place the keyboard normal side up on an X-Stand and raise it high enough so you can work underneath it. You'll see quite a few screws that are available to undo. IGNORE THEM ALL.

There are 3 different functions for the screws on the outside of an SL990. The ones at the far 2 ends secure the end pieces on. DO NOT UNDO THEM - just ignore them. They are simply holding your case together and I'm guessing you want to keep the case in one piece. The next set to ignore for now are the ones which are underneath the keybed. These are holding the keybed to the metal frame and you need to open the frame before you undo those.

The screws you need to undo are the ones you cannot see right now. On the two ends you should see 6 holes (3 each end) going into the case. At the end of each of these holes is a phillips head screw, so get your phillips head screwdriver out, stick it into each of these holes, find the cross and undo them all. If you can't see these holes then they may have stickers over them or something.

Once they are undone the case will now open up on a hinge which is at the back. You will probably need to lift both ends at the same time, but it should just open up like a door. If it doesn't then don't force it. Check that all the screws are out and that nothing is catching anywhere.

So now you should be looking at the insides of your keyboard. Not much going on in there is there? As you can no doubt see, the SL990 pro is pretty much just a Fatar keybed with a few electronicy type stuff attached. (I'm a web designer - what do I know about circuit boards???)

#3 - Key Replacement

Ok - so it looks like it's going to be pretty easy to swap out those keys.... NOT SO FAST. Each key on the SL990 is kind of like a hook which clips onto the back of the bed and then also hooks underneath a guardrail at the front. Even though you can unclip it at the back easily enough, you'll need to move the keybed back about an inch in order to allow the front of each key to unhook from this rail.

Read through this thread to find the link to the YouTube video of the guy who unclips a single key from the back allowing it to move forward. This will show you how to get off a key. As stated also in this thread, to get at the black keys you need to first remove the surrounding white keys.

Also you're going to need some replacement keys. At the time of writing the only ones I have been able to source are on eBay.co.uk - just type in "Fatar Sapre Keys" and it should come up. They are currently £7.20 each and are specific to keyboards which are spung from below rather than at the back.

In this thread Toddskins explains about the keys which are sprung at the back, my SL990 is not like this. It is sprung from below. Basically the spring on my Fatar pushes the key back upwards rather than pulling it back. It doesn't really make a difference but be aware that if you remove a key then the spring will just be sitting there and if you then turn the bed over without first refitting the key then you'll be hunting around on the floor for that spring for a while.

So... to replace a key you need to move the keybed, which means getting underneath the case again. You're now going to unscrew the main screws directly below the keybed. You may also have to unscrew the 2 rubber feet at the front. Once these are all undone then the keybed should be moveable. If you're just replacing keys then you only have to nudge the whole mechanism backwards a few inches, unclip the required key and replace it and then rebuild in reverse order.

#4 - Cleaning those contacts

If like me you are experiencing some problems regarding velocity sensing then you'll probably want to clean the contacts.

However, in order to gain access to the contacts you're going to need to do a little more dismantling. Firstly I would recommend that you unclip the suspect key and have a look at the top of the rubber contact. I had small bits of junk rattling around on the insides of my keyboard and it only takes a little to get inside the workings of a key to start buggering things up. So clear things up at the top of the keyboard first.

Next I would work out whereabouts on your keyboard the suspect key actually is. In order to get at the contacts you're going to need to turn your keyboard over and at that point everything starts looking a bit samey. So in my case I was looking at the second F up from the bottom. There are 15 notes in a full octave and the keyboard starts on bottom A, so working that through I needed to be looking at contact 21 (where bottom A is 1 and so on)

You've already unfastened the keybed from the frame so you are nearly in a position to flip the bed over, but first you have a couple of ribbon cables attaching the keybed to the electronicy things mounted at the back of the keyboard. These should just be straightforward clips which you can ease apart, but be careful here or you'll be having to order something from the internet which you really could have avoided.

Before you unclip make sure you note which way around these ribbon cables reattach or you may do something horrid once power is switched on.

So now you can pick up the entire keybed and flip it over. I would recommend doing this onto a padded surface, I dumped mine onto the sofa.

The SL990 now is pretty much exacly as Toddskins explains it earlier in this thread. The only major difference is that on the SL990 there are a number of bracket things which further attach the keyboard circuit boards to the keybed frame. These need to come off. Also - BE VERY CAREFUL to notice that the two circuit boards are connected by a small ribbon cable. Don't miss that.

The actual cleaning process is exactly the same as already described. Use Isopropyl to do the cleaning. If you are in the UK then this is pretty easy to buy. First try your local pharmacist - both of mine had or could get it at around £5.50 for 500ml (and I live in a small village in Lancs). You can also get it from Amazon and eBay. I would recommend buying a bottle rather than a vaporiser.

Remember that you noted the number of the key which was suspect? Well this info should come in handy now if you want to specifcally inspect a single contact. Just count that number in. If you've simply flipped your keyboard then you'll be counting from the same side, if you've flipped and turned then you'll need to count from the other end. I just flipped over so my dodgy F was contact point number 21 from the left.

Once you've had a good old clean, and / or entirely replaced your contact strip (see the Midi Store on eBay), then you just need to rebuild in reverse order, plug it all back in and see what happens.

In my case everything was restored to normal.

Conclusion

As stated at the start of this reply, this entire process took me just over an hour and it really wasn't very difficult at all. I have no idea when it comes to electronics, but these Fatar keybeds are designed like Lego. I was thinking that I'd open up the keyboard, rummage around and 2 hours later be surrounded by cables and screws and in the end a broken keyboard, but really it wasn't like that at all. It was more like fixing a washer. A bit of a pain, but simple enough.

I hope some of this helps. This is really just for SL990 users, and perhaps SL880s too - but feel free to ask about anything if I've made a glaring error. Once again, a big thanks to Toddskins who's probably saved a lot of us quite a few quid by just spending a while to show us how to do it.

Cheers.
 
Hello,
Regarding the SL 990 Pro ribbon cables running from the contact board to the main circuit board (power, MIDI out), can you simply just pull it away without damage? My brother, who knows a bit about electronics from dealing with computers, warned me that the ribbon cable pins, are punched into the circuit board by a special tool, and that it would not work again if I simply detached it. I have to get the keybed out to clean the contacts, but I'm also wondering how I can tell if the diodes for the dead keys are damaged as well.
thanks,
 
Eel said:
Hello,
Regarding the SL 990 Pro ribbon cables running from the contact board to the main circuit board (power, MIDI out), can you simply just pull it away without damage? My brother, who knows a bit about electronics from dealing with computers, warned me that the ribbon cable pins, are punched into the circuit board by a special tool, and that it would not work again if I simply detached it. I have to get the keybed out to clean the contacts, but I'm also wondering how I can tell if the diodes for the dead keys are damaged as well.
thanks,
Click to expand...

Check that the ribbon cable connector is socketed. They usually are at one end or the other. It can look confusing though if you don't really know what you are looking at or looking for. Example: the Kurzweil keyboard ribbons have a red plug that go into a red socket... Otherwise your brother is right, special punch tools and presses are used to assemble plugs on some ribbon cables. Best that he take a look at it and give you an answer. If he's not near you, take a picture & send it to him.

For the diodes test, you need a multimeter to check them out electrically. First do a mechanical check of all the components, making sure they are not cracked or broken. Then check all the solder joints on the board, re-flowing the solder on some of them often cures problems. To test diodes, ensure the PC board is not connected to the scanning electronics. Then put your meter in the "ohms" or "continuity / diode test" mode. A diode conducts only in one direction, like a one-way street. Place the meter probes (+ and -) on each end of the diode, note the reading; then reverse the conenction and note the reading. One way should read almost as a short circuit, the other should read as an infinite resistance. Any failure of the test - short circuit in both directions, or infinite resistance in both directions, means the diode is bad and needs to be replaced. Those diodes are usually small signal diodes of the "1N914" type and can be obained at any good electronics store. Make sure you note where the black band is on the diode - the component is "polarized" and won't work if installed backwards.

John
 
Last edited:
Thanks Davey0001 for your contribution to this thread, hopefully it will help someone out some day :)

John
 
Slightly different velocity problem

Hi all,
I have a slightly different velocity problem on some of my keys. To be exact C#4, D4, D#4, E4, F#4, G4; no idea why C4 and F4 are working fine. The unusual thing is that rather than being stuck on full or minimum velocity, play intermittently or not working altogether, the affected keys DO play but at a constant medium-low velocity.
I cleaned the board contacts as well as the little rubber ones with isopropyl alcohol but it didn't help. I swapped the plastic membrane of the 4th octave with the one of the 3rd octave but the problem remained in exactly the same keys while the 3rd octave played just fine. This leads me to believe that the problem is on the board itself rather than the plastic membrane. Do you think a new board could solve the problem of could it be something else?

Something has clearly happened to the area around those keys as the little red felt cloth above the keys (the visible one) has disintegrated only in that specific area (drink spill?). The inside looks fine without any sticky messes. Other than that I can tell that the keyboard has been heavily used as there are a number of broken plastic bits on the two sides but not much more...

Thanks in advance and thank you to Toddskins and the other contributors for starting an maintaining to this post.
 
Disassembling individual Fatar keys

Hi folks.

I have a semi-weighted synth keybed and the tabs that hold the key (when you remove the springs) are too stiff and long so I can't take the keys off.

It's an older keybed the plastic has yellowed and the tabs have probably stiffened with age.

The keys are dirty and dusty and I wanted to clean them thoroughly.

I'm itching to put it back together so I already cleaned them surfacely. You can see the dust in the pics.

Any ideas? Thanks.
DSC00854.webpDSC00855.webp
 
dipole said:
Hi folks.

I have a semi-weighted synth keybed and the tabs that hold the key (when you remove the springs) are too stiff and long so I can't take the keys off.

It's an older keybed the plastic has yellowed and the tabs have probably stiffened with age.

The keys are dirty and dusty and I wanted to clean them thoroughly.

I'm itching to put it back together so I already cleaned them surfacely. You can see the dust in the pics.

Any ideas? Thanks.
View attachment 69402View attachment 69403
Click to expand...

Hi Dipole,

Apart from maybe some brittleness of the plastic - careful when you push the tab in the slot !! - you should be able to remove the keys without any problems; the tabs are not really that deep. Is your screwdriver blade narrow and deep enough? I use a 3mm straight flat blade, not the type seen in your picture. Push the blade in at a slight angle, not perpendicular to the key. Once in, rock the screwdriver as far as it will go ( I forget if its forward or backward rocking, I think its back ) then gently pull up on the key from the rear where the spring used to be. The key should come off straight up. If you are afraid to break the tab, try pulling your first key from the very extremity of the keybed. Worse comes to worse and if the springy part of the tab breaks, the key can still be fastened down and held securely by the remainder of the tab and the spring. If the tab does break, adjust the amount of force you use so the next ones don't break.

John
 
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