DAW Users With ADD

I used to travel by road from LA to San Diego stopping off along the route over a few days . I thought I had died and gone to heaven:) Dana Point was one unmissable place (=watering hole:D ), Laguna Beach was another. And San Diego itself was unbelievable.

BTW, did you know Pennsylvania's founders were all Hookers? I know that cos where I used to live in Chelmsford, (near London)there was a blue plaque on a house next to the cathedral stating that the house was formally lived in by Mr Hooker and his family, founders of the state of Pennsylvania.

Thanks for the vote of confidence in knowing about NFL Barometer but its all a sham, I know jack s**t, but you guys are forcing me to get with the thread here:p

Mike, I did 20 hours of non productive recording over the weekend and last night did more in a 45 minute session than I did all over the poxy weekend:mad:
 
Well if any of youse guyz had ever bin ta Wisconsin dere hey,ya would know that Wisconsin is "GOD'S COUNTRY".
Just don't come during winter,spring or parts of summer and fall.;)
I've only been to San Francisco in California,a nice place to visit but I would'nt want to live there.My wife and I checked out the famous Haight Asbury area and it was pretty disapointing.Chinatown was pretty cool though.Hmmm....do they have an Americatown in China?


Paul, winter is my busiest time because I do repair work then.I work on different industrial doors ranging from small counter shutters on conveyor lines to airplane hangar doors.With the bad weather comes lot of breakdowns and abuse.
I do mostly installation in the warmer months and get farmed out to the window installation division when they get busy.
It's physical,dirty,hot/cold work,but I'm in different places everyday and I'm my own boss once I drive away from the shop.
As long as the job get's done my boss does'nt care how I do it.

BTW you mentioned having a vst wrapper in another thread,here's a site with some free plugins,you may know of it already.....

http://www.databaseaudio.co.uk/index.php

We've got a lot of people in America who don't know jack$h1t about football....





they're called WOMEN!
 
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acidrock said:
Well if any of youse guyz had ever bin ta Wisconsin dere hey,ya would know that Wisconsin is "GOD'S COUNTRY".
Guy, I was thinking about coming out to Wisconsin to visit. Which day does summer fall on next year?? :D

Paul, good pick on the Baltimore game last night. However, I'll remind you I was 3 for 3 before my fall from grace this past weekend. :( So you got 2 more to even just catch up. One piece of advice - do not, under any circumstances, pick the Giants.

My employer gave me a new laptop today. 2GHz P4, with 512 RAM, a 30 GB hd, built-in DVD/CD player, swapable floppy/zip drive, and a firewire port. If it had a decent sound card I would be tempted to use it to record (however, they might frown on me bringing bands into my office. :) )
 
Guy Wrote:

We've got a lot of people in America who don't know jack$h1t about football....
they're called WOMEN!

Rofl:D :D Same here, different game, same problem:)

Hey, that was a great VST site you gave the link for, lots to check out:D

Guy, sometimes I think about giving my job up and cutting grass for a living. Outside, fresh air, your own boss, 8 til 4 hours, no stress, no having to wear a suit, tie and fancy jacket. But I have to get my daughters through College first:rolleyes: Our plan is to sell up and move to Spain. Its the nearest we have in Europe to San Diego:)

Mike, well done on the lap-top, my current employer (I'm a management consultant) gave me a Sony Vario 1.6 but with a huge 16.1" screen and 4x UBS and a firewire port. I am seriously looking at the M-audio quattro, I can supplement it with my omni which is on my DAW. Next year, m-audio are bringing out firewire versions of their soundcards, the price of the firewire chip has fallen from around $300 each to something more reasonable. So I expect to see a load more companies follow suit.

Technology is here now to allow true portable 24 bit recording:eek:
 
Chuck - that Derrick Jeter jersey worked like a charm. Two for two, with a home run, two walks, and three runs scored. Not a bad evening. I must have missed it, how did Garciaparra do? :D :D :D

Paul, an M-audio firewire sound card sounds like just the ticket. I'll still have to work on bringing the band into the office though. "But what if I keep the door closed, and don't use any drums?"

BTW, I work for IEEE who wrote the standard for Firewire (IEEE 1394), along with 802.11b, Bluetooth, and several other standards in the computer field.
 
Oh, shut up.
I wasn't going to watch. I really wasn't. I shut it off when Giambi got that hit (error, Spezio) in the eighth.

That's it. I'm done with baseball.;)
 
Mike, I went there (IEEE) once for a discussion on triplicated computer systems, many, many years ago. Are you at the Hoes Lane address or with the Gods in fluffy carpet land in Park Lane?

BTW, I'm gonna hang on for the firewire version of the m-audio, but my midi controller works great with the USB port.:cool:
 
Paul881 said:
Mike, I went there (IEEE) once for a discussion on triplicated computer systems, many, many years ago. Are you at the Hoes Lane address or with the Gods in fluffy carpet land in Park Lane?
Wow, what a small world. I'm at the Hoes Lane location in lovely Piscataway. I've never been to the Park Ave. facility. I'm not sure if I'm allowed there. :)

I shut it off when Giambi got that hit (error, Spezio) in the eighth.
But, Chuck. . . that means you missed Bernie's homer! However, you can catch it on Sports Center tonight I'm sure.

(Hmmmm... maybe I should back off. Never know when I might need some horn parts again. :D )
 
OK, not to belabor the point too much (it's only one game after all), but if I were manager and former catcher, Mike Scoscia, pitcher Ben Weber's ass would be in a sling. He got the first two guys in the eighth, had two strikes on Soriano and then kept shaking off the catcher. Soriano walks. Jeter gets up. Again, shake, shake, shake, walk......Hey asshole, throw the freakin' pitch they called!:(

And he still could've gotten out of the inning if Spezio did what every little leaguer is taught - get your body in front of the ball.

Hats off to the Yankees though. If you make the smallest fuck up, they make you pay. Every time.
 
ChuckU said:
OK, not to belabor the point too much (it's only one game after all), but if I were manager and former catcher, Mike Scoscia, pitcher Ben Weber's ass would be in a sling. He got the first two guys in the eighth, had two strikes on Soriano and then kept shaking off the catcher. Soriano walks. Jeter gets up. Again, shake, shake, shake, walk......Hey asshole, throw the freakin' pitch they called!:(

And he still could've gotten out of the inning if Spezio did what every little leaguer is taught - get your body in front of the ball.

Hats off to the Yankees though. If you make the smallest fuck up, they make you pay. Every time.
Of course, manager and former catcher Mike Scoscia also could have called on closer par excellence, Troy Percival to pitch to Soriano, Jeter, or Giambi. Giambi happens to be 0-5 against Percival with 5 strikeouts.

I can almost guarantee you that Torre would have had Rivera in there were the situation reversed. C'mon, you can't ask your closer to get 4 outs??

Scoscia says, "that's the way we've done it all season." Hate to tell you. Mike, but this is the playoffs. You get a chance to win a game, you pull out all the stops.

(Are we boring you yet, Paul? I already know we're boring you, Guy.)
 
Wow,Mike working in the computer field really gives you a leg up on this recording business.
I've only had a computer for twenty months and I've only been really comfortable with it for about half that time.
I was a happy little fuzzball recording on my VS recorder but felt pressured to get into computers or become left behind.
A few observations of my computer experiences to this point

1.Just because a person sits in front of a computer all day,that does'nt mean they know anything about them.Kind of like most people drive cars but can't fix them.
When I first started looking at computers I'd ask people in the office and others I knew worked with computers about them.Having done preliminary research through magazines as to what my specs would be for an audio-intensive rig it struck me as odd that these people did'nt know jack about ram,cpu,storage etc....
I came to the conclusion that they learned just enough to use their program and basically were doing data entry.

2.Just because a person works for a computer store that does'nt mean they know anything about computers.Boy I really paid the price for this....I can see why a lot of people have bad computer experiences,they get horrible advice,it does'nt work and they blame themselves for not being smart enough.
I had my computer custom built at Milwaukees largest chain of stores that advertises custom built machines.I paid top dollar $2600 total with no sound card or speakers.
It did'nt work!It took eight months of going back and forth to the store and having the techs tell me nothing was wrong with the computer.Finally after threatening to take them to court a tech said he thought I had a bad RAID card and could get it to work.
Well he fixed it alright....he removed both hard drives and replaced them with a single 93 gig hard drive!I explained to him that this defeated the purpose of what I was trying to do and he stood there slack jawed with a blank stare on his face.
Well at least I could record.I got the royal shaft but given my experience with this company I took what I could get and cut my losses.:( :mad:

3.You get better tech support from the internet...
I find it pretty amazing that I can get more and better answers from total strangers with no financial interests in me than I can from a company that has made money off me and at one time stood to make more from me!
You know some people think the internet has impersonalised things and made decreased social skills.I feel just the opposite,it has brought me in touch with people whom I never would have met and who have the same interests as me.
Believe me.....when I talk to people about recording I get strange looks,even from fellow musicians.
I remember trying to explain muti-track recording to the people at the computer store and the reply would be"Oh...you mean like mp3's?":confused:

4.I'd really like to get a new computer....
What a catch22 situation I'm in.If I would have had a computer and internet access before I had mine built I could've gotten a much better rig for less.Now that I know what I know now I can't justify the expense because of the money I have already flushed down the crapper!:(

Oh well that's my sad story.....


Maybe you'll hear one of my recordings one of these days and realise that they were probably doing the world a favor by giving me a machine that did'nt work.:rolleyes:

LATER!
 
Guy,
Your points are all well-taken, especially the first. I know what I know mostly from trying to put DAW's together, despite the fact I've been a CAD designer for 13 years. Most guys in my office wouldn't know the first thing about putting a system together or installing a network card or a CD burner.
The car analogy is appropriate in many ways. The kicker is this. Imagine going to an auto dealer and purchasing a car. You can't drive it off the lot though, until you spend another 20-30% of the initial cost of the vehicle on the distributor. You wouldn't put up with it, yet I feel that way about paying $200 for Windows when I can put a decent system together for $600-$800...

I find that my most knowledgable friends with respect to putting a PC system together and spec'ing stuff out are the ones that are handy with cars, gadgets, electronics, etc. and my programmer friends and relatives kind of lag....
 
Guy,

I enjoyed reading you last post immensely, all your points are very valid. When you ask people (in your early days when you are just starting out) for their advice, instead of admitting they know J.S**T about it, they start to spout off, you listen, take it all in and then re-gurge it all later only to find its a crock. Check it out, these guys will never admit to knowing nothing. Its a male thing, like never asking directions. Why else would we have to produce millions of male sperm when all it needs is one little sucker to fertilise the female egg? Answer, cos none of em will ever stop to ask for directions:D

Its the same with everything, all pastimes and stuff. Woody Allen once said that 99% of the time, the secret of success is just turn up. And he is right. What he means is that by just taking the lid of your puter and changing a soundcard etc puts you in the 0.00001% of the perceived geeky population who have ever done that.

I am not a sailor, I cannot sail but I have sailed as a crew member accross the English Channel in a storm, sailed off California many times to Catalina Island and back and all down the California coast to S. Diego. Last year I saled off Barbados and the Caribbean. So that puts me in the 0.00001% of all sailors who have never been out of a harbour.

The most amazing observation in your post is the one about internet people who you don't know, have never met, don't know what they look like even, have no financial interest in you - and yet give you the best advice, sometimes over days. And you know that they are thinking about answers for your problem- all for free. This is the internet at its best, like you I meet up with people here who I would never have had the opportunity to meet.

Best of luck with the new puter, I am trying to convince myself that I can build one myself, I'll think about that for some time yet;)
 
Building your own computer

Funny you should bring that up.....
Smart computing magazine recently had an article about building a computer that piqued my interest.Boy if I had the nerve that would be the way to go.
I went to the guidance counsellor at the city college looking to take some night courses to enhance my computer knowledge and maybe get myself closer to acheiving this goal,but he could'nt reccomend a course that I felt suited my needs.
I feel as though I'm an intermediate user.I don't want to take a course where the instructor says" Now grab the mouse and click the little button...." .And on the other end of the spectrum I don't want to get over my head in something too technical.

Adding to my list of newbie observations that may seem painfully obvious...

5.The reason tech support sucks...
The first thing the tech support guy will do is play the blame game ."Well it must be some other software that you installed that's causing this problem."
Now I realise this is probably true in a lot if not most cases,but WTF!Nothing like having a get out of jail free card for every problem that comes up!

I guess this dovetails with the better support on the internet point.The developer works his software in pristine controlled and optimised conditions.The the real world gives the user a cold hard slap in the face.The real trailblazers are the actual users being the unpaid guinea pigs coming up with the data that the developer can use if he so wishes.


BTW Did they play any baseball last night?

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL?

Paul...that's the opening line for Monday night footballs theme song.


LATER!
 
AR - Good thread (even though you pirated my baseball thread :) )

Just to set the record straight, my work for IEEE is in the marketing/administration area, not in computers. My knowledge of computers (whatever it is) came about pretty much the same way you are getting yours - trial and error. The only difference is I started around 1985 or 86. The first time I saw a DAW (1998) I absolutely fell in love. It married my two passions/hobbies - music and computers.

FWIW, I built my last computer. It's not so difficult, but I did end up breaking a plastic arm on the mobo where the CPU plugs in. So (after several attempts with crazy glue) I had to buy a second mobo which cost me an extra $125.00.

Here's my take on the whole thing.
Negatives:
1. You probably won't save any money, and may actually spend more than buying an equivalent pre-built.
2. You have to pick out all the components. If they don't work right together, it's your problem.
3. No warranty on the finished product. Just the component parts that you bought (see #2).
4. No free OS. An extra $100 for that, unless you use your existing one. In my case that was ME, whereas had I bought a pre-built it would have come with XP.

Positives:
1. You get to pick out all the components, and therefore can select items specific to your needs - rather than take what's given in a pre-built. This is often very important for a DAW.
2. The components and case will be standardized, making future upgrades easier (probably the biggest reason I decided to build mine). New mobo and CPU (~$450) and you've got a new computer. Pre-builts often won't accept a new (standard ATX) mobo, making them very hard to upgrade.
3. You learn alot about computers in the process.

Bottom line, however, is next go around I think I will just buy a Dell again. I'll explain why when I have more time.
 
My .02

If you want to put a system together (like I did), I recommend the following approach:
1. Do a bit of research here or elsewhere. What's a good motherboard for the software/hardware you want to use? You could do a poll here and try to duplicate a system of someone who's had some success.
2. The motherboard to me is a huge key. Again, get one that people are having luck with. Some of the manuals are pretty straight forward; they usually have a chart telling you how to configure jumpers based on your processor.
3. RAM and processor snap right in, as well as video card. Hard drive(s) and floppy hook to ribbon cables to the Mboard. Power supply hooks up to the mboard and drives. Lots has been written here about the best way to configure primary master/slave and secondary master/slave. Jumpers on your drives and which ribbon cable they're on will dictate this.
4. Plug it in, boot from floppy, and install Windows. This is the part where I call my Microsoft certified friend to talk me thru the software part.:D I suppose if I wrote this stuff down once, I'd be able to do it myself, but all the hardware part leading up to this is cake.

Last week I helped a relative buy a new computer. I could not have put one together cheaper. It was an Emachine with an AMD 1600, Windows XP, a CD burner, 128mb ram, 17" monitor and a 40GBHD, all for $589. Now, I have no idea what kind of DAW this would make, but if you just want something for the home office or whatever, I think this is a good deal.
Like Mike, I built my DAW, but may not do that next time. Prices have plummetted and processing power has increased. I definitely recommend getting something with nothing integrated to the mboard. My Gateway had integrated audio and even though I disabled it in bios to put my SBlive on the system, it was still a pain.
 
OK, I have a little more time now, so I'll expand on why I would probably go pre-built next time.

First, for the first time since I have been buying computers (over 15 years) the need to upgrade every 18-24 months seems to have lessened. In the early (and not so early) days, new software demanded faster, bigger, better hardware. Then when the developed the new hardware, it allowed the software developers to make bigger, better, faster programs, which demanded bigger, better, faster hardware... and on and on and on.

However, there hasn't really been any new killer ap in several years (maybe Adobe Photoshop was the last I remember). As for word processing, spreadsheets, and most other business functions, I'm doing the same things I did 10 years ago (albeit with nicer fonts).

The computer I had before my current one was a P2, 233 MHz. And I could almost guarantee you that had I not got involved with music on computers, I'd still be using it. Home recording, for me, was the next killer ap. But even with that, I am still using a 733 MHz P3 that I bought over two years ago, and don't not feel deprived.

So, with the need to upgrade minimized, the need to have a computer with an upgrade path is not as important.

Next, even with an upgrade path, you find that everything in a computer changes over time. With a build-your-own you can slap in a new mobo and CPU and go from 486 to a P4 (or thereabouts :) ) but then you find your memory is obsolete, your video card is slow, your CD-ROM won't play DVD's, your hdd is only 5400 RPM and small to boot, etc. etc. So, by the time you replace everything, you may just as well have bought a whole new one.

The last reason is because the problem of getting components that all work together is put into someone else's hands. And while you can do the research, as Chuck said, why bother?

The only real negative, is that the computer won't necessarily be optimized for recording. IOW, it may have a sound card on the mobo (which you can disable), you won't know what mobo will be in it so you can check that it will work with the sound card you chose, etc. etc.

HOWEVER, I think with the power of today's computers, even one that isn't optimal will certainly more than do the job.

Our current DAW is a Dell 733 MHz P3. When I got it, I reformatted the hdd to remove all the shit Dell had loaded on it, installed a Delta 1010 and a second (7200 RPM) hdd, loaded my recording apps (and nothing else) and have used it for over two years without a hitch.

So my thinking right now, is I'd probably go the same way again. (BTW, the one I built myself is my personal computer. While I do some audio editing and midi composing on it, it's not our main DAW. It also < shudder > has an SB Live in it.)

There's my $11.02. I won't look for any change.
 
This is an interesting subject, Making your own vs Buying a PC. When I bought my PC in 1998 (PII, win 98, 450Meg, 128meg Ram, S/Blaster Gold AWE 64, CD/DVD, 3D accelerated voodoo video card, TV card etc), I hadn't even considered home recording.
The machine I bought was a top spec machine for the family. It needed to run Microsoft office, play CD's and DVD's, act as a TV and be a general workhorse.
Since then I have changed the PSU, added a CDRW, added another HD, upgraded RAM to 760Meg, taken out the Iomega Zip drive, changed the soundcard to a S/blaster Live! and added a Delta 66 +omni. Even more scary, I even upgraded the Bios! And I'm not computer literate!
Today, the computer continues to be a workhorse. It handles the family accounts, the family business, the kids homework, my work, plays CD's and DVD's. In fact everything you can think of. But as a DAW it struggles cos it can't really run win XP, Sonar and all my software plug-ins. So buying the best spec machine that I could in 1998 paid off, it still does everything that we wanted it to all that time ago. You can now understand how difficult it is for me to pursuade the family VP of Finance that we need a new PC. ;)
Pricing a new DIY DAW, I know it is not going to save me money, but I will know whats going in the machine. And your point Mike is also valid; I will learn about PC's, adding to my knowledge. The issue about ensuring all the bits work together is worth considering but its not so important now, with a little bit of homework you can you can buy a suitable mobo with a chip in it, (if you buy Intel you can't go wrong imho) and avoid built in sound cards. The only other devices are a PSU, Graphics card and HD. Your soundcard is already chosen (or should be!).
On the other hand, in this months SOS magazine they are reviewing a purpose made DAW for the same money than I am looking at buying all the bits for; it comes with a guarantee and I don't have to spend my precious time building one.
I guess like everything, you pay your money and takes your pick:)
Well, its Friday, early morning here, today I got a few reports to write, a few errands to run and then its the weekend :) A bottle of Red Wine is waiting and already has my name on it:D
Later!
 
A funny one!

I read this today and thought you might all enjoy it. If it offends anyone, I apologise in advance, it is tendered in peace and in the pursuit of humour only.


THE BOOK OF JOBBING PART IV: GOD CREATES SIDEMEN
A newly discovered and translated fragment (c)2000 by Steven G. Hashimoto

"And so the great Leader Nebulon did embark upon a search for suitable Sidemen for his orchestra, and he could find none; For in those days there were not many, and those that he could find were already working; Some worked the Ark with the House of Noah, and some had the house gig at The Walls of Jericho. And many played behind the scat-singing team of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednago.

So Nebulon did return to the Lord and saith, "Lord, there are many musicians, but no Sidemen!", and he rent his clothing.

And the Lord did say, "Schmuck! Hast thou looked everywhere? Didst thou call the Union?"

And Nebulon did say, "Lord, I have looked high and low, especially low, and only one or two could I find. What shall I do?"

And the Lord did afflict Nebulon with boils, saying "Leave me to think on this!"

And just to buy some time he did also visit a plague of locusts on
Egypt.

And the Lord did summon a league of Angels, and sent them forth over the land, commanding them to find him some Sidemen.

And the Angels did go to the four corners of the earth, but the only unemployed Sideman they could find was one holy man in India who did play the horn with the slide.

So with great fear the Angels did return to the Lord with the bad news, and filled with wrath he was. "How can this be? At one time the world did teem with Sidemen, as a dead oxen does with maggots!"

And the Angels did say, "Lord, many left the business, many have
become idiots, and some have even become Leaders, and no Leader will work for another Leader."

So the Lord did cause drought for 40 days while he thought, and the answer came to him. He did recall that there was a factory, part of his Beasts Of The Field, Inc., division, that was in disuse. For it had been used to create Golems, for which there had been no great demand, and so He had closed down the operation. And He thought, We can retool, and start turning out Sidemen.

And so it was done, and the Sidemen started rolling off the assembly line. But somehow a remnant of the Golem program remained, and the Sidemen did come out acting unpredictably.

Some stammered and stuttered, some talked to themselves under their breath, and some would not bathe.

Some refused to shave their beards or to have their hair shorn, and some refused to wear the Jobbing Toga.

And some wore the Toga, but left them crumpled in their chariots in between Gigs, or slept in them, or wore Togas from eons past, with ruffles.

And some did not believe in maps, and wandered the land aimlessly looking for the Gig, and some did not believe in the use of the hourglass, and arrived at the Gig whenever they chose.

And some loved the wine of dates, and some loved the burning of hemp.
And some were created without ears, and some with knuckles where their eyebrows should be.

And some did worship the gods Trane, Jaco, Mahavishnu and Ornette, and mocked their Leaders.

And some did steal food from the buffet line, yea, even before the
Guests had dined.

And some did try to lay with the Chick Singers, and some with the
Guests.

And some did not Read, and some could only Read, and not Blow.

And some had no social skills, and some had no musical skills. And many of them were Dark, not in pigmentation of the skin, but in the Outlook on Life.

But every once in a while the line did produce a Perfect Sideman; One who followed orders without question; One who showed up on time; One who wore the Toga; One whose chariot always ran; One who Knew Tunes;

But these Perfect Sidemen were few and far between, and besides their eyes were glazed, and they were shunned, for they were Boring, and knew not how to Hang.

And soon the land teemed with Sidemen milling about, looking for
Gigs, complaining and whining and arguing and occasionally stabbing each other in the back.

And the Lord looked down upon his work, and said, "It will do".
 
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