Creating A Click Track

[dave.m.stewart]

I'm recording a song with my band that's more intricate than anything we've done previously. Instead of just laying drums first since I'm hardly a perfect timekeeper we've decided that using a click track seems like the best option to keep us all in time.

One major obstacle is that we're largely musically illiterate when it comes to figuring out what tempo the parts that we play are at. For instance, a song we previously recorded was 4/4 and 128 bpm for the whole song. The one we can't seem to figure out now jumps between different time signatures that we think are 8/4 and 3/4 and also has three different tempo changes that are repeated within it. We figured out that the most prevalent tempo is 148 but the other two parts, which are the two parts in 3/4 are quick breakdowns that we can't figure out.

How do most of you deal with the task of laying a click track if you're dealing with a song like this? Am I correct in that to do so one needs the essential info about the song including time signature and tempo changes? We've butted our heads against the wall simply trying to figure out tempos by a "guess and check method" of playing the bassline over a metronome set to a guessed bpm. It's just not working for us.

HELP!

 

[snow lizard]

multiply by 2

Play the song during a 4/4 section with the metronome going. Get the close and don't worry about the time changes. Then play a loop of the part (or "a" part) that has the time change. Usually the click will roll over on itself. The downbeat will switch from being on one, off one, on one and so on. Play all parts individually to see if the tempo lines up properly, and that the out of sync parts all line up the same, alternating from on - off - on - off etc...

Let's say that the metronome time came out to 130 bpm.

Set your click track to play 260 bpm and see what happens. Usually this works, but it depends on if you're dividing 8th notes, 16th notes or whatever. You need to set the click fast enough that it plays the divisions - for the time changes only.

This won't work for the tempo changes, so if you have any way to print a recorded click from a source (even if you have to mic the metronome) you'll have to do some wave manipulation to set all the changes. Record each change according to the arrangement with the correct timing and nudge your waves to fit. This assumes that you have a DAW, and a way to nudge the waves. If you're using tape, you need a razor blade and a lot of patience to make this work.


sl

 

[Kryptik]

The first thing you have to figure out is the time signature of each part. Basically the number of clicks until the riff repeats. Then the figure out the tempos of each part. Some clicks have a tap feature which could help you figure it out. If not just click the hihats or tap your foot while you adjust the tempo until the clicks line up. I'm sure you've already found ways to figure tempo and signature settings for your last recording though.

Ok, now this will only work if you are using some sort of digital workstation or sortware---
-Record two measures of click for the first tempo into your DAW.
-Copy one measure from begining of the one click to the begining of the next one click
-Paste as many times as needed from the beginning of the track. (Don't forget the count off at the beginning of the track though. I've forgotten to do this before and things can sound pretty strange when the clicks slow down too early)
-Go back and copy from the beginning of a one click to the beginning of the two click of the next measure.
-Paste that over the last measure of what you pasted before. This extra one click at the end of the part is so you can line up the one click of the next part.
-Find some empty track space and record the clicks for the next tempo and signature and then repeat the procedure.

I know that may be a little confusing the first time you read it, but once you do it, it is really pretty simple.

If you're using tape this can be tough because your timing would have near perfect when lining up the clicks for the other parts.

Also something else that I find very helpful is recording guitar and vocal guide tracks along with the clicks. Make sure they are at low volumes so you don't have a tendancy to play to them in case the guitars or vocals are a little off click.

Software like Cubase or Cakewalk would also help with this as you can lay out the whole structure of the song and if you make a mistake it's only a little drag drop away. You also don't have to deal with all the scubbing to find the one click so many times.

Hope that helps.

 

[EleKtriKaz]

What software are you using? In Cubase this is an extremely simple problem to solve. You just create a tempo track, which can have as many tempo changes as you want in it. You just lay out each tempo for however many bars it needs to be, and during recording the tempo of the click will change with respect to how you laid out the tempo track. I'm guessing other software packages have something similar. Anyone know for sure?

 

[dave.m.stewart]

I'm using sonar 4 se

 

[Fire Dome]

what i would suggest is to get the guitarist to paly the riff at the tempo you will be recording at and the drummer plays a click 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3 or whatever on his sticks, hi hat, bass drum etc. Then use a hardware device with a tempo tap option such as a keyboard, taping out the clicks. If you are consistent with your clicks and have them in time with the drummers click then you will have your tempo. I use this technique all the time with my yamaha keyboard.

Sorry i cant help you with setting up a click track in sonar.

P.s If you are the drummer then i would suggest working on your timing, as a fellow drummer myself it is our main role in any musical situation to keep time and the more solid you are the easier it will be to play in odd time signatures etc.


Dave

 

[Dogman]

Something else that may help, is if you could find a drum machine, or some loops. That way, even if they are simple, they can be done to emulate the time changes, and taken out later. I find it hard to play just to a click, as I lose my place in the song sometimes. If the drumbeat has fills, and tempo changes similar to what you will play later, it helps immensely. But this is also time consuming. Just a thought.
Ed

 

[Alexbt]

8/4 time doesn't exist... Maybe you're thinking 2/2? (Cut time?)

 

[dave.m.stewart]

helpful as some of these ideas are, i know what kind of click track i want and have a metronome plugin that can accurately create it. what i really need to know i guess is simply how to record a DXi synth in sonar 4. i suppose i'll bounce my question over to the cakewalk forum but in the meantime on this page just keep those suggestions on calculating tempos and time signatures coming! thank. in response to the last post, i don't know shit about music theory so you may well be right, but if 8/4 time "doesn't exist" then why can i set that to be my project's time signature. call me crazy, but that being an option seems to point towards its existence so just do me a favor and explain that in a way i can get my ignorant head around if you will.

 

[andyhix]

8/4 could/does exist, but it would be pretty unlikely that anyone would purposely write a song in that time sig. It would read much easier, and sound the exact same translated to 4/4.

I think.

Either way, this is an interesting post - I second the idea of doubling the tempo and just "playing through" the 3/4 time. That seems easiest.

 

[woody1144]

Of course 8/4 does exist. its a time signature of 8 quarter notes
e.g 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8.
It cannot be translated to 4/4 time. theoreticly its the same as 4/2 (4 half notes) but its not really the same feel.

 

[Zed10R]

It's incerdibly simple. In my opinion, many folks are overcomplicating the issue.

Use Sonar's metronome set at the tempo of the part you are recording at the moment, regardless of the actual time sig, and use headphones. It can't be THAT hard to find the right tempo. Then just record your tracks. You really should be able to play your parts that are not in 4/4 time along with a metronome. I don't see a need to mess with Sonar's time sig capabilities. I've got lots of stuff in odd time sigs and I just play it against the metronome. It doesn't match up with Sonar's grid, but if you are a tight player, you won't need to cut and paste anything anyway. It's also not very difficult or time consuming to create midi tracks for odd time parts in a 4/4 grid. It's called dragging.....easy eh??

Good luck, and keep it simple.

 

[andyhix]

I still contend that you could translate 8/4 to 4/4, but would yield twice as many measures. 5 6 7 8 simply become the next 1 2 3 4. I'm no expert at this - tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[NYMorningstar]

I still contend that you could translate 8/4 to 4/4, but would yield twice as many measures. 5 6 7 8 simply become the next 1 2 3 4. I'm no expert at this - tell me why I'm wrong.

At a fixed tempo the timing of the bar and beats changes if you translate like that.

Time signatures are a way to divide music into bars and beats. The upper value is the number of beats in a bar. The lower valuer refers to the length of the beat. e.g 3/4 means 3 beats, each one quarter note long.

With 4/2 timing you'd have 4 beats each a half note long. The click will play 4 clicks for each bar. At 120 bpm that would be 4 seconds per bar or one second per beat, whereas a 4/4 bar would last 2 seconds at the same tempo, each beat just a half second.