Cracked bridge

[0018G]

I believe Martin now ships all dreadnaught size guitars with .013's. 000 and smaller get shipped with .012's, but even the scalloped guitars are perfectly capable of holding .013's in most cases. I can't imagine a guitar being fine with lights, and imploding with mediums unless there is already a problem-imported or domestic. Admittedly I haven't worked on as many guitars as Light or Muttley, but this has been my experience.

 

[danny.guitar]

Well, all I know is I want that guitar really damn bad. And there's no guarantee that what I order online will sound like that one. Even though I'd be supporting the people who fucked up my guitar, I'd be getting the guitar I've been looking for and couldn't find.

Of course, by the time I have the money saved up it might be gone. I don't know. It seems to be a pretty popular model too so there's a couple of other local shops that I might try first to see if they have it.

I still plan on getting my current guitar fixed, I won't just let it sit there and rot with a broken bridge. I considered trying it myself, but I really do like the guitar and it's not like "I have nothing to lose". That was my first guitar and has served me really well the past 6+ years, despite all the things I've probably done to ruin it, and despite being made in China.

So, my #1 priority is to save up for that other guitar. And in the meantime talk to the owner of that shop. If nothing comes of that then I'll just wait until after I buy the new guitar to get this one fixed. Even if I have to save up a bit and pay some upfront.

I'll also make sure to post here before-hand, because it's really hard for me (someone who knows little about guitars) to know if a repair man knows what he's doing.

I really can't thank muttley and everyone else for all the helpful advice. If there were no guitar experts on here to help out I'd be in serious trouble.

 

[muttley600]

Well, all I know is I want that guitar really damn bad. And there's no guarantee that what I order online will sound like that one. Even though I'd be supporting the people who fucked up my guitar, I'd be getting the guitar I've been looking for and couldn't find.

Of course, by the time I have the money saved up it might be gone. I don't know. It seems to be a pretty popular model too so there's a couple of other local shops that I might try first to see if they have it.

I still plan on getting my current guitar fixed, I won't just let it sit there and rot with a broken bridge. I considered trying it myself, but I really do like the guitar and it's not like "I have nothing to lose". That was my first guitar and has served me really well the past 6+ years, despite all the things I've probably done to ruin it, and despite being made in China.

So, my #1 priority is to save up for that other guitar. And in the meantime talk to the owner of that shop. If nothing comes of that then I'll just wait until after I buy the new guitar to get this one fixed. Even if I have to save up a bit and pay some upfront.

I'll also make sure to post here before-hand, because it's really hard for me (someone who knows little about guitars) to know if a repair man knows what he's doing.

I really can't thank muttley and everyone else for all the helpful advice. If there were no guitar experts on here to help out I'd be in serious trouble.

Danny if you love that guitar that bad get it. But plead for a deal on the basis that they owe you something. If they won't budge on price or fix their bad repair then just walk away. It really aint worth it you'll find another one that you fall in love with down the line. Bit like women really. You lose one and your broken till the next one grabs your heart.

 

[Light]

13s are pretty heavy. Some guitars can take it, but a large % of D sized guitboxes WILL develop MAJOR issue(bellys, lifting bridges, lifting saddles, loose braces. If and when ya get this figured out, I would highly recomend detuning it when its cased.

I dig playing heavy strings for strumming and bluegrass, but there is often a price to pay.

What kind of guitar is it anyway?

You should really keep your mouth shut when you don't know what your talking about.

13's are FINE on most well designed and made guitars. Certainly, there are no factory guitars being made these days which can't handle 13's just fine. Heavies (ie, .014's) are a bad idea unless you are detuning your gutiar at least a step, but 13's are fine. They may cause the guitar to need a neck reset a little sooner, but your talking about after 20 years instead of 25, so it's not a big issue. There are some small shop builders who build their guitars to only take lights (a bad idea, in my view, but I don't buy their guitars, so my opinion doesn't really enter into it), but even Taylor, who recommends lights on their smaller guitars, does so because they think it makes the guitars SOUND better, not because the guitars can't handle the tension.

And while it is a good idea to detune a guitar if you are putting it up for long term storage (2-3 weeks or more), if you are playing it everyday there is no need to do so.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

.013 isn't exactly what I would call "medium" size, although I realize many players today appreciate the presence and impact of bigger strings. I would guess that the 13s caused the crack. A replacement installed could cost as much as maybe $200, depending mainly on "who" does the work.

D'Addario Acoustic Mediums

GHS Acoustic Mediums

Martin Medium acoustic strings

Ernie Ball Medium Acoustic Strings


That pretty much covers all the major manufacturers of guitar strings, so 13's seem to be considered Mediums by people who, you know, know what they are talking about.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Is dry wood a factor in this case? That was the first thing that I thought of when I saw the way it split.

Is it worth putting a bit of fingerboard oil on a flat top bridge periodically?

Not likely in this case as there is obviously quite a bit of play on the saddle slot. Splits resulting from shrinking across the grain in a case like this would really only occur if the saddle was too tight in the slot.

There is no harm in oiling the bridge. I do it as a matter of habit and I advised IT on my instrument care flyers.

Well, not to quibble, but while the bridge drying out probably didn't cause it to crack, it is entirely possible that the root cause of the issue is the top getting dry enough to sink down, which of course brings down the bridge, which of course brings down the action, and the failure of the guy who raised the action (and the owner) to humidify the guitar properly is what lead to the saddle not being deep enough, which caused the split.

Of course, without seeing the guitar, that's just a guess, but it wouldn't be the first time I'd seen it.

And oiling the bridge wouldn't have helped, but humidifying the guitar properly in the first place likely would have.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Flamin Lip makes some good points.
Furthermore, if you're absolutely intent on using .013 my advice is to have your neck bolted into place by someone who's had plenty of experience performing this mod. I think all the "Taylor" guitars bolt their necks, and there's a good reason for it.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG!

Anyone who would add a bolt to a dovetailed neck is someone who you should NEVER allow to work on you guitar, I don't care how much experience they have at it. In fact, the more times they've done it, the worse!

More to the point, if we are talking about a Cort, it is likely bolted on in the first place.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Saddles shouldn't be shimmed. It's the point of contact between the strings and the top. It makes NO SENSE to have a too-short saddle raised with shims. If this is how they raised your action I wouldn't go back to that shop.

They should have replaced your saddle to fit across the bottom of the slot on the bridge properly and set the action from there.

As Muttley has already said, there is nothing wrong with shimming a saddle, as long as you leave enough in the bridge to support things properly.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

...there are no lifetime guarantees on luthier work....

There is if you are dealing with a reputable shop. Every repair person I know who I would recommend warranties workmanship and materials for life.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

--Except for inexpensive guitars.


13s would definitely raise the action on any guitar that has a value of less than a $200 repair. In fact, 13s will ruin a cheap guitar in short order--because the design/construction, materials, and workmanship simply can't handle a set of .013 strings. The first thing that probably happens is the neck becomes dislodged from the body. If and when it finally "settles" OUT of place, the player may notice a slightly lowered action (and some buzzing) and assume that a slight truss-rod adjustment is needed. A very slight loosening of the truss-rod at this point will allow still more movement of the already failed neck to body joint, as the failed neck joint and truss-rod battle against each other--until someone gets the not-so-bright idea to install shims as a last resort. The fix may work OK for a while, but the continued use of 13s will continue to de-construct-- breaking down the weakest construction and materials first. Just a few thoughts.

Wow, you are clueless.


The major problem with most inexpensive guitars is that they are OVER-BUILT, not that they are under-built. I will admit to seeing some Fenders which are under-braced, but I've never in my life seen a Cort that didn't have braces the size of Lincoln Logs inside it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Martin even says in their care and feeding not to exceed 12s.

Pretty much every new Martin over the size of a single O has a little stamp inside of it which says - and I'm paraphrasing here because I'm not at the shop right now - "String with either light or medium gauge strings." Martin ships most of their Dreadnaughts with mediums, for that mater, and Taylor ships all their large body guitars with Mediums - though they ship their smaller bodied guitars with lights, but that is a sound issue, not a structural issue - so I think we can safely say that neither Martin or Taylor have any problem with Medium gauge strings.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

None of the guitars I have owned have ever done any of those things. Plus when the top belly's it is a sign that the bracing inside is letting go. That is usually from to high of a gauge.

If none of your guitars have ever had any behind the bridge bulge, you've either never owned a decent guitar, or you've only owned Bozo's (nice guitars, but built like tanks, and my god you need to pound the shit out of them to make them sound good).

Behind the bridge bulge, as long as it is not excessive, is perfectly normal and acceptable. It's kind of like the whole neck reset thing - sure, it is easy to design a guitar which will never need a neck reset, but it will sound like shit. Same thing with behind the bridge bulge. If you don't get at least SOME twisting of the top right there (after, say, a year or two), the chances of the guitar sounding decent are pretty low (Bozo's excepted, but do you really want a guitar that you need to pick with a 16 pound sledge hammer?)

As to why you would see more Asian guitars, well, they outsell American made guitars by a huge margin, and being inexpensive guitars the QC is not so great. Seems to me the answer is pretty self explanatory.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[muttley600]

At last someone who knows a bit about the mechanics of the acoustic guitar cheers Light.

Well, not to quibble, but while the bridge drying out probably didn't cause it to crack, it is entirely possible that the root cause of the issue is the top getting dry enough to sink down, which of course brings down the bridge, which of course brings down the action, and the failure of the guy who raised the action (and the owner) to humidify the guitar properly is what lead to the saddle not being deep enough, which caused the split.

True but I still maintain that that saddle and bridge setup had a better than average chance of failing regardless of oiling, humidifying or whatever.

I oil the bridge as a matter of habit and also it will help any end grain checks from opening. Oil slows the ingress (is that the right word?) of moisture and also the rate at which it loses moisture. On it's own its not much help but as part of a regime it seems to help. Humidifying is also essential. Over here we've had one of the hottest driest Aprils on record and I've had a lot of boxes in as a result. Problem is the weather has now reverted to normal, ie wet and 50 degrees so I've been pushing the humidifying or managing the change in environment line quite a bit of late.

 

[muttley600]

If none of your guitars have ever had any behind the bridge bulge, you've either never owned a decent guitar, or you've only owned Bozo's (nice guitars, but built like tanks, and my god you need to pound the shit out of them to make them sound good).

I'd add those early Levin guitars in that bracket too man they were like picking up a chest of drawers yet somehow they sounded good.

 

[Light]

At last someone who knows a bit about the mechanics of the acoustic guitar cheers Light. True but I still maintain that that saddle and bridge setup had a better than average chance of failing regardless of oiling, humidifying or whatever.

I oil the bridge as a matter of habit and also it will help any end grain checks from opening. Oil slows the ingress (is that the right word?) of moisture and also the rate at which it loses moisture. On it's own its not much help but as part of a regime it seems to help. Humidifying is also essential. Over here we've had one of the hottest driest Aprils on record and I've had a lot of boxes in as a result. Problem is the weather has now reverted to normal, ie wet and 50 degrees so I've been pushing the humidifying or managing the change in environment line quite a bit of late.

Oh, I'm not saying oiling a bridge is a bad thing, just that it wouldn't help with this issue.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[toyL]

Wow, you are clueless.
.......

I am "clueless", and yet we still have an "inexpensive" guitar that OBVIOUSLY fell to shit because the strings were too heavy...what size strings does this particular model ship with?...it's really no more complicated than that...and I'm "clueless"

 

[toyL]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG!

Anyone who would add a bolt to a dovetailed neck is someone who you should NEVER allow to work on you guitar, I don't care how much experience they have at it. In fact, the more times they've done it, the worse!

More to the point, if we are talking about a Cort, it is likely bolted on in the first place.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

"Taylor" is the only company that I am aware of that "bolts" their necks into place as a ""standard" practice. Anyone know of some other company that does this? I own a cheap ($350) Washburn that has the neck-bolt mod according to Taylor's specs, and the action on this guitar is tremendous--like playing a well set-up electric--very little string "tension", it's entirely uneffected by humidity and temp changes...in fact, I've never had to take it back to the shop ever since the mod was performed several yrs ago...and BTW--I'm very selective/careful about string-sizes--if I go "heavy" on 2 or 3, I go a bit lighter on 2 or 3 of the others.

 

[toyL]

Wow, you are clueless.


The major problem with most inexpensive guitars is that they are OVER-BUILT, not that they are under-built. ...
....


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

I'd love to hear you explain exactly what the "major problem" is with "OVER-BUILT"--"inexpensive guitars". Could it possibly have anything to do with the materials used, design, or workmanship?

 

[toyL]

D'Addario Acoustic Mediums

GHS Acoustic Mediums

Martin Medium acoustic strings

Ernie Ball Medium Acoustic Strings



That pretty much covers all the major manufacturers of guitar strings, so 13's seem to be considered Mediums by people who, you know, know what they are talking about.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Yes, I understand what light, medium, and heavy mean "today". However, when I first picked up a guitar 30-some years ago, lights were .008...you get the picture?...and there's plenty of great sounding stuff out there that was performed and recorded when the both of us were barely out of our diapers.

 

[toyL]

Doesnt matter where the guitar is made.. 13s WILL cause issues on the top of a large % of guitars. This isnt based on scientific facts, just my personal observations. Martin even says in their care and feeding not to exceed 12s.

Well said, Flamin Lip. Straight to the point.