Cracked bridge

[muttley600]

I think you mean 'dig up!'

You Irish boys are the experts on digging in my book. Whatever you say

 

[muttley600]

I believe I was probably the one that mentioned that I wouldn't shim
a guitar. I haven't seen anyone mention anything about the shimming material. What did they use?
I have seen guitars that use nothing more than thin strips of card board.
If some one used this material and filled up 40% or the slot it would do
pretty much what occured on Dannyguitars guitar.

The correct material to shim with would be the same timber as the bridge. Card is a bodge. Bone will not hold itself together in thin strips very well but it can be done its just easier to use veneer the same as the bridge. I have in the past glue sized the veneer to give some stiffness and stop it snapping if and when it is removed and replaced.

You would never fill up 40% of the slot. The most you would normally shim would be a double veneer which would be about 1.5mm even that is sometimes pushing it.

I use nothing but bone on my guitars sanded perfectly flat, this gives you the best surface contact and the most sound. Why would I want to put some type of material between the saddle and the bottom of the saddle slot and kill the sound?

Please explain the acoustics value in that statement for me. I'm not following you on the "best sound" thing. After you've done that I'll give you one of my degree lectures on musical acoustics I'm so hated for round here

 

[mshilarious]

I have seen the bone give before the rosewood or ebony splits as well. Bone also has weak spots by its very nature.

I've done that. I picked up a guitar I wanted to use as a stage guitar, the top was sunk in a bit, but I needed a piezo in it, so a little more than half the saddle stuck out. I did cut a nice bone saddle, that's one thing I'm fairly good at. It was fine for years, but finally last year the saddle snapped in half

In the meantime I decided it was actually a nice sounding guitar, so I chucked the piezo and it is waiting for further repair

 

[danny.guitar]

I took Timothy's suggestion and took a couple pictures of the saddle after drawing a line at the top of the bridge, so you can see how far (or how NOT far) the saddle was seated in there (with the shims in there).

And a picture of the saddle slot empty. It has some numbers written in there that I'm not sure what they mean, but oh well.

I'm going to take a couple pictures of the shims but they're real thin so it's hard to get a good picture. Anyway, you can look at them here:

www.dannydotguitar.com/images/saddle.gif
www.dannydotguitar.com/images/bridge.gif

Oh, and besides the crack, the bridge still seems to be attached/glued to the body real good, no difference there. Just the fucking crack.

 

[Flamin Lip]

Let me get this straight, this pic:

http://www.DannyDotGuitar.com/02.gif

That you originally posted.... by chance did you pull the saddle up out of the slot for the pic or was it shimmed that high? From the new pic w/ the pencil line, it doesnt appear that it would be seated that high.

 

[danny.guitar]

Let me get this straight, this pic:

http://www.DannyDotGuitar.com/02.gif

That you originally posted.... by chance did you pull the saddle up out of the slot for the pic or was it shimmed that high? From the new pic w/ the pencil line, it doesnt appear that it would be seated that high.

No I didn't do anything when I took that pic. Took it how it was when it cracked.

 

[Flamin Lip]

Yup, that Tech is retarded.

 

[muttley600]

And a picture of the saddle slot empty. It has some numbers written in there that I'm not sure what they mean, but oh well.
(

Do you mean the numbers written on your under saddle transducer?

 

[32-20-Blues]

Please explain the acoustics value in that statement for me. I'm not following you on the "best sound" thing. After you've done that I'll give you one of my degree lectures on musical acoustics I'm so hated for round here

Please, no, we're sorry! Oh Lawdy me, I will not sin again, but just don't give us the lecture!

Incidentally, Muttley, you're far from hated. You've given plenty of people a dig out here when it comes to problems.

The thing is, guitar playing is just a contentious issue. That, coupled with the fact that most guitarists are, to some extent, also amateur techs, just provokes arguments. It's the old saying about assholes and opinions - everyone has got one.

 

[muttley600]

Please, no, we're sorry! Oh Lawdy me, I will not sin again, but just don't give us the lecture!

Incidentally, Muttley, you're far from hated. You've given plenty of people a dig out here when it comes to problems.

The thing is, guitar playing is just a contentious issue. That, coupled with the fact that most guitarists are, to some extent, also amateur techs, just provokes arguments. It's the old saying about assholes and opinions - everyone has got one.

OK I'll hold fire on the acoustics lecture, Just be careful now

Seriously tho I came here in the first place because I knew nothing about how to record the guitars I make. Others have made great recordings of em but not me. If I have a gap in my knowledge or experience I do my best to fill it. I learned a long time ago the best way to do that is speak to the pro's, saves time and money. I hang out here now because I got a lot of good qualified info. I wouldn't dream of telling some of the serious mic guru's here they have it wrong. Why? because I haven't been using, fixing, taking apart, studying, making and researching them for decades they have. Same goes for Amps, cars, and many other things. A little knowledge truely can be a dangerous thing. Guitars on the other hand......

I know what I know and when I need to know something I go find out from someone who has the brains to understand the facts and the experience to hold an opinion and knows how the two relate.

I'm off now I'm spending the evening building my new PVR. Now theres something I'm still learning about Bloody computers

 

[TelePaul]

OK I'll hold fire on the acoustics lecture, Just be careful now

Seriously tho I came here in the first place because I knew nothing about how to record the guitars I make. Others have made great recordings of em but not me. If I have a gap in my knowledge or experience I do my best to fill it. I learned a long time ago the best way to do that is speak to the pro's, saves time and money. I hang out here now because I got a lot of good qualified info. I wouldn't dream of telling some of the serious mic guru's here they have it wrong. Why? because I haven't been using, fixing, taking apart, studying, making and researching them for decades they have. Same goes for Amps, cars, and many other things. A little knowledge truely can be a dangerous thing. Guitars on the other hand......

I know what I know and when I need to know something I go find out from someone who has the brains to understand the facts and the experience to hold an opinion and knows how the two relate.

I'm off now I'm spending the evening building my new PVR. Now theres something I'm still learning about Bloody computers

What's a PVR? Don't you mean PC?

 

[muttley600]

What's a PVR? Don't you mean PC?

No a PVR I can just about handle building a PC.

PVR = personal video recorder.

Right now I'm struggling to get my mobo to recognise my HUGE hard drive

 

[danny.guitar]

No a PVR I can just about handle building a PC.

PVR = personal video recorder.

Right now I'm struggling to get my mobo to recognise my HUGE hard drive

I'll build you a PC if you build me a guitar. Sound fair?

 

[muttley600]

I'll build you a PC if you build me a guitar. Sound fair?

The PC I can build. If you can get windows to recognize partitions greater than 137G on IDE ATA drives without messing about with oem floppy utilities I'll fix your bridge. Sound fair I'm gonna open a beer and call me brother he's better at this stuff then me

 

[danny.guitar]

The PC I can build. If you can get windows to recognize partitions greater than 137G on IDE ATA drives without messing about with oem floppy utilities I'll fix your bridge. Sound fair I'm gonna open a beer and call me brother he's better at this stuff then me

I wish you were being serious.

 

[castlerock]

The 60% rule is an old one I learned some 30 years ago. Many other makers will likely tell you the same. That 60% don't forget is a minimum. I prefer to see a lot more in the slot but a lot will depend on how much mass you want in the bridge as you build the guitar and how stiff the whole top assembly is acoustically. That is a judgment call that makers do every time they tune the top and bridge acoustically. Its far more important in any case to have a snug fit and a perfectly flat slot bottom and slot joint.

Think about how the forces are acting on the bridge. Most of the force on the saddle is bearing down as a result of the string break angle. The tension in the string is pulling at the anchor points mostly. ie the bridge pin/bridge plate and belly behind the saddle and the machine head at the opposite end.

Mmmm. Good point. I should have given that more consideration. When I was coming up, my friends and I couldn't really afford good guitars so I've seen some wierd things happen. Funny how you think about things when you can't afford the good stuff.

The problem with Danny's guitar is not common, but almost everyone I've seen over the years has been down to a badly fitted loose saddle. I can't think of one that wasn't and I see a lot of guitars. I have seen the bone give before the rosewood or ebony splits as well. Bone also has weak spots by its very nature.

Didn't know that about bone. I see from another post that you are a guitar maker. So how about that lesson on acoustics. =]

(oh yea. they're gonna love me here. -L-)

 

[RandyW]

The PC I can build. If you can get windows to recognize partitions greater than 137G on IDE ATA drives without messing about with oem floppy utilities I'll fix your bridge. Sound fair I'm gonna open a beer and call me brother he's better at this stuff then me

Muttley, 137GB is kinda small by todays standard. Somtimes CMOS doesn't detect the full size of a drive but unless your mother board is ancient it should still give you a partition pretty close to that. 2 other options are update you MB firmware "reflash BIOS" or by a new controller card something like a Promise or something along those lines. What kinda MB and processor do you have any way. It sounds like you must have slapped it together yourself. Please don't tell me your running Win98

 

[muttley600]

Muttley, 137GB is kinda small by todays standard. Somtimes CMOS doesn't detect the full size of a drive but unless your mother board is ancient it should still give you a partition pretty close to that. 2 other options are update you MB firmware "reflash BIOS" or by a new controller card something like a Promise or something along those lines. What kinda MB and processor do you have any way. It sounds like you must have slapped it together yourself. Please don't tell me your running Win98

Getting way off topic now

Currently searching out a BIOS flash now as I can't run this drive with DDO on this mobo at least I can't get it to load. BIOS see's it but can't see full capacity and when I install the drives DDO I get the dreaded hal.dll missing or corrupt error when loading windows. Can't run a new controller card cos I need both PCI's for video capture cards.

And no, I know I'm old but XP pro here