Cracked bridge

  • Thread starter Thread starter danny.guitar
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It was more than 2 weeks ago when they raised the action. I don't remember the exact date but it was awhile ago. I think I started a thread on it about the buzzing and that was when I got it adjusted.

I really could use the receipt. :( Either way I'm going to talk to the owner and see what he/she says. If he acts the same way as the salesman, then I may just forget that place all together.

Muttley - You said the new Washburn probably won't differ too much from other ones of the same model. Do you think it would be a safe bet to order it online? My friend said that's what I should do, but I don't want to take the chance that whatever one I order online doesn't sound the same. It had a nice high end sound and that deep, rich bass sound that I've been looking for a long time now.

Even if I do buy the guitar from that shop, it's the last time I give them any of my business. But I'd really like to order it online if I'm able to.
 
Sorry if I'm repeating some thoughts here. I skipped through some of the posts. There are a few things you should look at. First off, if the guitar is made somewhere in Asia then the wood will not be as high of quality as North American made guitars. They will most likely not handle a 13 gauge string. I have worked in a guitar shop that does major guitar repairs for about a decade. I have not seen one Asian guitar hold up to a 13 gauge string yet. The only guitars that are warrentied for 13 gauge strings in the shop I work at are he American made guitars. Read your warrenty. Secondly, back about 30 or so years ago 13's were considered heavy. The gauges have since changed. To look for signs you have to heavy a gauge of string. Check the guitar top inbehind the bridge. If it is not flat and is bubbling up you may have to heavy a string.
Looking at the pics of your bridge. Try fixing it yourself if you don't want to pay alot of money for it. Put some wood glue in the cracks and see if you can clamp it shut to dry. When it is dry then put some 12's on instead. If that works then you can have it set up propperly by someone who knows what they are doing. ;)
 
hoops said:
Sorry if I'm repeating some thoughts here. I skipped through some of the posts. There are a few things you should look at. First off, if the guitar is made somewhere in Asia then the wood will not be as high of quality as North American made guitars.
Not necessarily true. Many of the "Asian" made guitars are made of fine tonewoods that better or match western made instruments. They have the buying power and also are not governed by the cosmetic appearance of the timber which many western based manufacturers place too much regard on. Many times I visit suppliers in Eastern Europe and the Tyrol region and see piles of fantastic timber set aside for dispatch to the big Asian makers. Even the Chinese are now sourcing their timber there in an attempt to improve on their instruments.
They will most likely not handle a 13 gauge string. I have worked in a guitar shop that does major guitar repairs for about a decade. I have not seen one Asian guitar hold up to a 13 gauge string yet. The only guitars that are warrentied for 13 gauge strings in the shop I work at are he American made guitars. Read your warrenty.
There are many Asian made guitars that will hold up to 13 gauge strings. Most better than any western made guitar. It will depend on the instrument however and you should get qualified advice before attempting it. For starters just about every Yamaha in the fg series will, hell I've even seen "Asian" guitars sent over with 13's on them.

You will need to get it setup for 13's. Truth is that you will not notice a significant improvement in tone over a set of 12's. 13's by the way have always been quoted as Medium gauge by most manufacturers. 12's have always been light or medium/light. The gauge references for strings has only really been mudded when talking about electric lights and "super...." whatever etc.

To look for signs you have to heavy a gauge of string. Check the guitar top inbehind the bridge. If it is not flat and is bubbling up you may have to heavy a string.
All acoustic guitars will belly behind the bridge it is the nature of the beast. They also dip and belly up around the sound hole. The top would be the last thing to fail on any half decent guitar. The first thing to go would be the action and neck twist, then the bridge would most likely pop off if anything was to fail. For 13's you need to get a proper setup. Including, setting the truss rod correctly, reworking or repalcing the nut and possibly the saddle. Re set the bridge pins. The pull of a set of 13's will do the same as a set of 12's to your average top. If it goes wildly out then the top has bracing problems.

Try fixing it yourself if you don't want to pay alot of money for it. Put some wood glue in the cracks and see if you can clamp it shut to dry. When it is dry then put some 12's on instead. If that works then you can have it set up propperly by someone who knows what they are doing.
I guarantee you will make a mess if you attempt it. Listen to the advice you have already been given and demand satisfaction from the shop that carried out the work in the first place. Plus attempting a fix yourself will compromise any warranty you have statutory or otherwise.

Simply clamping the splits shut with "wood" glue is not enough. The soundboard, bridge plate and bridge need to be supported while the cracks are closed as well as a good look to make sure that the existing glue lines are secure and the bracing around the plate is holding. Not hard but you need to know what to watch for. Once closed you will need to make sure the bottom of the slot is perfectly flat, I suspect it no longer is. The sides of the slot will need to be trued up and a new saddle of the correct width and hight needs to be cut and setup.
 
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Just for the record the pull of your average set of 12's is 165 lbs and the pull on a set of 13's is around 185 lbs. A well made acoustic of the size we are talking about should handle them no problem. Smaller OM or O series I would not recommend 13's nor on a parlour style.
 
Doesnt matter where the guitar is made.. 13s WILL cause issues on the top of a large % of guitars. This isnt based on scientific facts, just my personal observations. Martin even says in their care and feeding not to exceed 12s.
 
Flamin Lip said:
Doesnt matter where the guitar is made.. 13s WILL cause issues on the top of a large % of guitars. This isnt based on scientific facts, just my personal observations. Martin even says in their care and feeding not to exceed 12s.
With the greatest respect my experience of acoustic guitars setting them up and making them trumps your ability to read Martins Blurb every time. Martin set their guitars up for 12's as standard if you want one with 13's they will do it in the setup without extra bracing or neck reinforcement. I know cos I do them. That applies to all their larger bodied guitars. Taylor actually setup their larger bodied guitars for 13's as do other makers. Most dreds and larger bodied guitars will happily function correctly with 13's if set up right. I'll say again. You need to seek the advice of an experienced , knowledgeable guitar tech who will tell you if you will have issues. They will have the experience of examining the integrity of the instrument and setting it up correctly.

From Martins own lit

Is it safe to use medium-gauge strings on my scallop braced guitar?
Yes it is safe. All of Martin's six-string guitars designed for steel strings have been tested to withstand the tension of a medium gauge string.
They do advise you to seek advice if you notice unusual movement of neck or belly. That is just common sense.

Then download Taylors string info here
and if you still disagree take it up with them.
 
Not necessarily true. Many of the "Asian" made guitars are made of fine tonewoods that better or match western made instruments. They have the buying power and also are not governed by the cosmetic appearance of the timber which many western based manufacturers place too much regard on. Many times I visit suppliers in Eastern Europe and the Tyrol region and see piles of fantastic timber set aside for dispatch to the big Asian makers. Even the Chinese are now sourcing their timber there in an attempt to improve on their instruments.

Why is it that we see more problems with Asian guitars then North American? Unless you are living in a climate that has the same seasonal changes as the wood that the guitar is made of. In Canada here are season changes are so drastic that the guitars are needed to be tweaked twice a year.

There are many Asian made guitars that will hold up to 13 gauge strings. Most better than any western made guitar. It will depend on the instrument however and you should get qualified advice before attempting it. For starters just about every Yamaha in the fg series will, hell I've even seen "Asian" guitars sent over with 13's on them.

Well in our shop we see too many Yamaha's with the problem I have just described.

You will need to get it setup for 13's. Truth is that you will not notice a significant improvement in tone over a set of 12's. 13's by the way have always been quoted as Medium gauge by most manufacturers. 12's have always been light or medium/light. The gauge references for strings has only really been mudded when talking about electric lights and "super...." whatever etc.

Look at the warrenties on most manufactures. If they won't cover it what makes you think the guitars will handle it? You can try and set up a guitar for 13's but most will not handle the strain.

All acoustic guitars will belly behind the bridge it is the nature of the beast. They also dip and belly up around the sound hole. The top would be the last thing to fail on any half decent guitar. The first thing to go would be the action and neck twist, then the bridge would most likely pop off if anything was to fail. For 13's you need to get a proper setup. Including, setting the truss rod correctly, reworking or repalcing the nut and possibly the saddle. Re set the bridge pins. The pull of a set of 13's will do the same as a set of 12's to your average top. If it goes wildly out then the top has bracing problems.

None of the guitars I have owned have ever done any of those things. Plus when the top belly's it is a sign that the bracing inside is letting go. That is usually from to high of a gauge.

I guarantee you will make a mess if you attempt it. Listen to the advice you have already been given and demand satisfaction from the shop that carried out the work in the first place. Plus attempting a fix yourself will compromise any warranty you have statutory or otherwise.

He is not willing to put the money into it in the first place. He is looking for a new guitar. He might as well try it and see what happens. Unless he is going to spend the money and get it do properly. What is there to lose.

Let me also add that the people I work with have been doing this for a living for 30+ years and are still in business. I don't think they would steer me wrong. :)
 
Dude.... stop being so defensive! I dont wanna get into a pissing war about who has worked on more guitars..... but any tech will give you a major caveat for putting 13s on an acoustic. I have seen many guitars that had straight necks and sound bridges belly up or lift after ONE NIGHT with 13s on em.
 
Flamin Lip said:
Dude.... stop being so defensive! I dont wanna get into a pissing war about who has worked on more guitars..... but any tech will give you a major caveat for putting 13s on an acoustic. I have seen many guitars that had straight necks and sound bridges belly up or lift after ONE NIGHT with 13s on em.
I ain't being defensive mate, just telling it like it is. There is a lot of mis-information out there and I'm just pointing out the real deal for anyone that cares to know. If any tech gives you a MAJOR caveat about putting 13's on a steel string guitar that is designed to take 12's other than a small parlour he's either talking bollox or doesn't know how to set up a guitar ;) A decent luthier or setup shop would be able to advise you if its possible most times it is.
 
Why is it that we see more problems with Asian guitars then North American? Unless you are living in a climate that has the same seasonal changes as the wood that the guitar is made of. In Canada here are season changes are so drastic that the guitars are needed to be tweaked twice a year.
The Asian market out sells western guitars by about 10 to 1 at least the last figures I saw they did.

Same here with season changes. I advise a twice yearly setup myself. That has nothing to do with the gauge of the strings.

Incidentally the climate in which the timber is grown has nothing to do with its movement in service. Some temperate hard woods move loads others dont, same with tropical hardwoods ditto the movement of most spruce and cedar species. Movement occurs as a result of the timbers ability to take in "unbound" moisture. Most of the stability of a timber comes from a leveling out of "bound" moisture lost during seasoning. "Bound" moisture is the moisture that is in the cells of the timber, "unbound is water that is outside or between the cells. When properly dried timber moves there is very little if any change in the level of bound moisture.
Look at the warrenties on most manufactures. If they won't cover it what makes you think the guitars will handle it? You can try and set up a guitar for 13's but most will not handle the strain.
See my post above I have quoted both Martin and Taylor who will warranty medium strings if done correctly.
None of the guitars I have owned have ever done any of those things. Plus when the top belly's it is a sign that the bracing inside is letting go. That is usually from to high of a gauge.
You might want to take a closer look. Its not a sign of the bracing failing. Modern bracing design is as it is to stop this. One, two or three fan braces in the lower bout and a stiff broad bridge plate being the main factors. If a guitar doesn't belly with 12's it will almost certainly be OK with 13's as long as the neck is stiff enough as it is likely over built in any case.
He is not willing to put the money into it in the first place. He is looking for a new guitar. He might as well try it and see what happens. Unless he is going to spend the money and get it do properly. What is there to lose.
That may be the case but I still believe they have acted badly and advised him poorly. The evidence of the problem is there to see. The job done correctly in the first place would have saved all the agro. I was just pointing out that to put it right isn't simply a case of closing the cracks with "wood glue" there are now other issues that need to be considered when putting it right. fixing a badly done repair often needs special care.

I wasn't suggesting you were being steered wrong. I've been building and repairing for nearly 30 years and I wouldn't steer you wrong either ;)
 
Just hit you with some pos rep muttley600 but I hit send accidentally before I signed it. Good posts, man.
 
danny.guitar said:
Muttley - You said the new Washburn probably won't differ too much from other ones of the same model. Do you think it would be a safe bet to order it online? My friend said that's what I should do, but I don't want to take the chance that whatever one I order online doesn't sound the same. It had a nice high end sound and that deep, rich bass sound that I've been looking for a long time now.

Even if I do buy the guitar from that shop, it's the last time I give them any of my business. But I'd really like to order it online if I'm able to.
Sorry Danny forgot to reply to this one.

At the end of the day you have to be happy with outcome. There is always a risk buying online unseen or in this case unheard. I've heard some horror stories and some great experiences. The only advice I can offer that Washburns QA is normally first class so the instrument should be sound. The problem you are always going to have is the same as you have now. You will not have anyway to get it setup as you would like. No two guitars sound the same so you can't assume it will be as suited as the one you have played. Then again it could suit you better.

I still think you should go and find one in your nearest big City. If thats not an option then you are stuck with the two options you have now, online or the shop who have screwed you. If it were me I would not buy a guitar online unless it had inherent resale value but then again I wouldn't give that shop anymore money until they showed a little more desire to accommodate you.

Sorry I can't offer any better option. Hope it all works out in the end mate and good luck.
 
TelePaul said:
I have lights on my D15 I thought lights are 11 gauge?
Generally light is 12's medium 13's. A few manufacturers call their 12's medium/light. What brand?
 
muttley600 said:
Generally light is 12's medium 13's. A few manufacturers call their 12's medium/light. What brand?

Martins....I think...I have no guarantee that they're 11s...

I switch between the Eric Clapton ones and the green pack....
 
muttley600 said:
There you go then light gauge:D
The Martin site say they ship with mediums but I think the shop set em up with lights, I rang em about this before.
 
TelePaul said:
The Martin site say they ship with mediums but I think the shop set em up with lights, I rang em about this before.
Yeh they do ship with medium but many outlets do put 12's on their guitars as a matter of course. No problem with that tho
 
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