Cracked bridge

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danny.guitar

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I was changing strings yesterday (I use medium/13 guage) and I looked down and noticed the plastic piece in the bridge was slanted forward. Then I looked closer and noticed a crack. :eek: :(

I have no idea what caused this. I've been using 13 guage strings for the past several years. I recently had the action raised and the person put a couple small shims in there. I've changed strings a couple times since then with no problems.

I attached some pictures.

What do you think caused this? Will I need a new bridge? If I do, what's a rough estimate of how much that'd cost? Or if it can just be repaired how much would that probably cost?

Just curious about how much I should expect to pay to have this fixed.

Here are the pictures:

http://www.DannyDotGuitar.com/01.gif
http://www.DannyDotGuitar.com/02.gif

Thanks for any help.
 
it could have been just bound to happen or the saddle didn't fit it's slot correctly. most likely the bridge can be replaced but it won't be a cheap. did the saddle lean forward before the bridge cracked?
 
had one fixed

I have a J45 that I had a similar problem with. I took it to a local luthier and he fixed it right up. He didn't change the bridge, he routed it and inlaid a new piece of rosewood and then routed a new slot for the saddle. It seems like that was a lot of work but he did a perfect job. Now the saddle sits tight in the bridge. I had a refret done at the same time so I don't know exactly how much he charged for the work on the bridge but it wasn't very expensive.
He thought the problem with mine was probably humidity and age.
Good luck!
 
danny.guitar said:
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I have no idea what caused this. I've been using 13 guage strings for the past several years. I recently had the action raised and the person put a couple small shims in there. I've changed strings a couple times since then with no problems.

I attached some pictures.

What do you think caused this? Will I need a new bridge? If I do, what's a rough estimate of how much that'd cost? Or if it can just be repaired how much would that probably cost?

Just curious about how much I should expect to pay to have this fixed.

Here are the pictures:

http://www.DannyDotGuitar.com/01.gif
http://www.DannyDotGuitar.com/02.gif

Thanks for any help.
Click to expand...
.013 isn't exactly what I would call "medium" size, although I realize many players today appreciate the presence and impact of bigger strings. I would guess that the 13s caused the crack. A replacement installed could cost as much as maybe $200, depending mainly on "who" does the work.
 
$200? :(

Well that sucks. I don't think there are any luthiers around here, just repair people in the music shops.

The place I took it to last time charged $15 for getting the action raised, which seems about right to me. I guess I'll have to take it to them to see how much they'd charge. I want it done right though.

I wouldn't mind paying $200 if it was done right.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
it could have been just bound to happen or the saddle didn't fit it's slot correctly. most likely the bridge can be replaced but it won't be a cheap. did the saddle lean forward before the bridge cracked?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I didn't notice the crack until right after I noticed the saddle leaning forward. Can't say what happened first.

I might just go back to normal/11 gauge strings from now on once I get it fixed.

My guess is the 13's were too heavy and put too much tension on the saddle and caused it to learn forward and crack the bridge.
 
13 gauge strings would not cause the bridge to split. The cause from those pictures is almost certainly a badly fitted saddle. The saddle should sit upright in the slot. and have the very minimum of movement. Just enough to allow the bridge to move a little with humidity changes. Rosewood and ebony which are the two most common bridge materials are relatively stable across the grain. especially if the bridge is glued right.

By the look of that saddle it is too high in the slot and has wedged open the slot causing it to split.

The bridge needs to have those splits closed and a correct fitting saddle fitted. By correct it needs to fit the slot nicely with no play and should have at least 60% of the saddle sunk into the slot. If you cannot acheive the action needed by doing that then you need to either deepen the saddle slot, but not so it leaves no rosewood under the saddle, or investigate why the action is so high and rectify by other means. Setting up a guitar for 13 gauge strings that would normally have lighter strings needs some attention to these sorts of potential problems.

As it stands you need to get that looked at pretty soon to stop the damage from becoming permanent or worse than it is already. The cost could well be under $200 if you get it sorted now. Leave it and the cost to fix will get over that by quite a bit. That is all based on the pictures you posted and excludes the possibility that the bridge or bridge plate are not coming off the soundboard or are damaged in other ways.
 
Get that fixed as soon as possible! From the pictures (it's hard to tell without seeing the real thing,) the crack can be glued, if done properly it will be strong as new and should not alter the sound. I'd also suggest a new saddle, shims work but are not the best way to raise the action. A decent repair person can easily replace the saddle when doing a set up ( I charge the same to shim a saddle as I do to replace one) it dosen't take much more work and plastic saddles are cheap. Shop prices vary greatly, for me to make your repair the cost would be, bridge repair-$25, new saddle-$15, new strings-$15, set up/adjustments-$35, total cost-$85. Expect your repairs to cost at least this much ( likely to be more in most shops) but if you let it get worse you will be looking at $200+ if you have to replace the entire bridge.
 
Dani Pace said:
Get that fixed as soon as possible! From the pictures (it's hard to tell without seeing the real thing,) the crack can be glued, if done properly it will be strong as new and should not alter the sound. I'd also suggest a new saddle, shims work but are not the best way to raise the action. A decent repair person can easily replace the saddle when doing a set up ( I charge the same to shim a saddle as I do to replace one) it dosen't take much more work and plastic saddles are cheap. Shop prices vary greatly, for me to make your repair the cost would be, bridge repair-$25, new saddle-$15, new strings-$15, set up/adjustments-$35, total cost-$85. Expect your repairs to cost at least this much ( likely to be more in most shops) but if you let it get worse you will be looking at $200+ if you have to replace the entire bridge.
Click to expand...


The main worry here is that the saddle is too tall and if enough of the saddle is not sitting in the slot gluing and repairing as is will not be enough. I suspect you need to look at why the action needs such a high saddle. Avoid plastic saddles at all costs. If you are going to expense of having a new saddle cut pay the extra few dollars for bone, and make sure it is a good fit in the slot. The cracks will need an experienced eye to tell if they can be closed properly without other work.
 
Is dry wood a factor in this case? That was the first thing that I thought of when I saw the way it split.

Is it worth putting a bit of fingerboard oil on a flat top bridge periodically?
 
I would say there is too much play, being the saddle is either too thin (unlikely) more likely the groove in the bridge has been machined too wide or the saddle has been sitting too high in the bridge slot.
 
This may have been pointed, I don't have time to read all the opinions.
But, shimming a saddle is not a good ideal as it will put stress on the bridge just like it did in your case. A saddle needs to fit perfect yours was shimmed so high it didn't have a good tight fit because it was sitting on top of what ever was used used to shim it with. This will cause you saddle to tilt forward causing excessive force on the bridges, and can split "surprise, surprise" your bridge.

Who ever shimmed it should be repsonsible for repairing it. What you should have done was had a new bone saddle made for it. Every acoustic should have at least two saddles, one for winter when the instrument is dry "extra high" and one for summer when humidity is high normal height "on the lower side".
 
second look

I looked at the pics again and I agree with whoever said that when they raised the action they probably didn't do it right. It looks like the grooves in the saddle are toward the back where they should be on top if the saddle had been upright in the bridge. That saddle appears to have been leaning forward for some time.
sounds like you're getting some good advice. The old guy who fixed mine died a few years ago. I don't know anyone around here who does that kind of work now. Good to know there are some who still know the trade.
my $.02
 
So you think I should take it to the same shop that raised the action?

This could have been my fault though. Not too long ago when changing strings the saddle came off (cause I took all the strings off at once) and the shims came out. I'm pretty sure I put them back in right. They were both the same size/width and I think the entire action was raised equally. But if I didn't put them back in there right then that's what could have caused it.

I'm gonna have to go Monday and have them look at it. There's no other good shops around here. None of the repair people in the other shops know what they're doing. :(

One of them adjusted the truss rod on my old electric and fucked the entire guitar up. :mad:
 
danny.guitar said:
So you think I should take it to the same shop that raised the action?

This could have been my fault though. Not too long ago when changing strings the saddle came off (cause I took all the strings off at once) and the shims came out. I'm pretty sure I put them back in right. They were both the same size/width and I think the entire action was raised equally. But if I didn't put them back in there right then that's what could have caused it.

I'm gonna have to go Monday and have them look at it. There's no other good shops around here. None of the repair people in the other shops know what they're doing. :(

One of them adjusted the truss rod on my old electric and fucked the entire guitar up. :mad:
Click to expand...

ask around town. look in surrounding towns too.
 
RandyW said:
This may have been pointed, I don't have time to read all the opinions.
But, shimming a saddle is not a good ideal as it will put stress on the bridge just like it did in your case.
Click to expand...
Rubbish, shimming a saddle is perfectly acceptable in most cases.. Read my earlier post on how a saddle SHOULD be seated.
 
Boss Hogg said:
I would say there is too much play, being the saddle is either too thin (unlikely) more likely the groove in the bridge has been machined too wide or the saddle has been sitting too high in the bridge slot.
Click to expand...
Either way the same thing. The saddle should have at least 60% sunk in the slot.
 
danny.guitar said:
So you think I should take it to the same shop that raised the action?

This could have been my fault though. Not too long ago when changing strings the saddle came off (cause I took all the strings off at once) and the shims came out. I'm pretty sure I put them back in right. They were both the same size/width and I think the entire action was raised equally. But if I didn't put them back in there right then that's what could have caused it.

I'm gonna have to go Monday and have them look at it. There's no other good shops around here. None of the repair people in the other shops know what they're doing. :(

One of them adjusted the truss rod on my old electric and fucked the entire guitar up. :mad:
Click to expand...
If I remember right we have discussed the action and setup on this guitar before. If so so you have every right in taking it back to them and getting them to put it right. The cause of your problem is as I described earlier. Re read my post and talk to them armed with a bit of advice. If they disagree they don't know what they are talking about. A competent repair shop would not shim a saddle in such a way. They should either have advised you that the action/buzzing is due to a more serious problem or that shimming the saddle would not work in this instance.

Once again most of the saddle should sit in a snug saddle slot. A good repair shop would cut a saddle to fit the slot not shim an old badly fitted saddle.
 
danny.guitar said:
So you think I should take it to the same shop that raised the action?

This could have been my fault though. Not too long ago when changing strings the saddle came off (cause I took all the strings off at once) and the shims came out. I'm pretty sure I put them back in right. They were both the same size/width and I think the entire action was raised equally. But if I didn't put them back in there right then that's what could have caused it.

I'm gonna have to go Monday and have them look at it. There's no other good shops around here. None of the repair people in the other shops know what they're doing. :(

One of them adjusted the truss rod on my old electric and fucked the entire guitar up. :mad:
Click to expand...

I wouldn't. It's my opinion that the $15.00 action "fix" is what caused your problem in the first place. As that person is more than likely responsible, are you willing to trust a more serious repair to them? You may have to travel to find a repair shop you can trust, but it is almost always worth the trip.

BTW, shims under an acoustic saddle is not the recommended fix for low action. There are several factors that can cause high or low action on an acoustic, including the need for a neck reset, a collapsing top, an out of adjustment truss rod, left in the car on a hot day syndrome, etc. The cause should be identified and weighed against the value of the guitar before even considering a $15.00 "Let's stick a shim under it" repair. If season changes are the cause of high and low action, a simple fix is having a luthier make you a "winter" saddle and a "summer" saddle.
 
cephus said:
Is dry wood a factor in this case? That was the first thing that I thought of when I saw the way it split.

Is it worth putting a bit of fingerboard oil on a flat top bridge periodically?
Click to expand...
Not likely in this case as there is obviously quite a bit of play on the saddle slot. Splits resulting from shrinking across the grain in a case like this would really only occur if the saddle was too tight in the slot.

There is no harm in oiling the bridge. I do it as a matter of habit and I advised IT on my instrument care flyers.
 
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