Could this be my problem, the interface

  • Thread starter Thread starter mark1971a
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Well...if you are going to upgrade the D/A....then you might consider just going for an 8-channel A/D-D/A box.

That would allow you to NOT have to mixdown the 8 tape tracks in order to transfer them into the DAW...so you can have 8 individual tape tracks going to the DAW.
So...record those 8 tracks any way you like with whatever hardware processing/FX you want. Then you transfer all 8 into the DAW. Once in the DAW, you work everything else only in the DAW.

I t really depends what you are after...there are many possibilities.
 
Realizing the empty digital drums... Why would you need to track up a virtual drumset and use rack pre's, compression, and EQ ? I haven't tried much of the vsts with midi drums yet. I d/l some free trail stuff like bbe, and some others.

That makes no sense so I didn't do it , thinking it might be ready to go in the DAW alone. My inexperience is showing good now.
 
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Not the drum set....all your other instruments.
Use the rack comps/EQ for your tape instruments....guitars, bass, whatever....or save all the processing for the DAW plugs, whatever you feel like.

Get a DAW drum sampler, like EZ drummer (very inexpensive.).

Drop a single scratch drum track from the DAW on one tape track.

Record all your other instruments to tape using that as your beat....(or you can also just use a click track for that).

Dump them all to the DAW and then add the final DAW sample drums, using your scratch tape drum/click track to get it all lined up. Since the tape deck would run free during dump to DAW, there will be some very minor speed fluctuations from the deck, but the DAW drums will be in perfect time, so you have to nudge something, and it's easier nudging the DAW drums instead of all the tape tracks, but you could do that too, whatever feels easier....but I bet you would need to do very minor nudging here and there to line it all up once in the DAW.
After that, for the rest of the tracks/mixing...stay in the DAW and forget the rack gear and the tape deck.

That would be a nice hybrid setup, allowing you to use tape on 7 tracks, then mix them individually in the DAW with DAW/MIDI tracks from the DAW and/or recorded direct to DAW.

Any of this making sense...?

Oh...and forget the whole "virtual instruments" approach. I ran with that back in the early '90s for a couple of years...and then at one point, I was looking to remix some stuff, and trying to get all the virtual instruments back the way they were was a PITA, even though I wrote down settings and saved presets....that "virtual" stuff has a tendancy to turn into vapor.
By getting everything in the DAW as a record audio track (including the sampled drums)...you can then archive all those WAV files, and pull them up 10 years later into any respectable DAW and remix again from scratch....but with virtual stuff....what if that synth module you used on some song just ain't working any more...... :(
 
Yes , it is. A big thank you to you, and anybody who might have read this.

The percussion in the recordings is the alesis 5 piece kit with EZ drummer. Synth drums are it for me. No space for a real kit. I did have a real bass drum miced to add in, but not using it here.

So use no rack stuff with the percussion? It is how I play live. I guess if you wanted just a base foundation that would be a wise method.
Not to far off I will probably start a thread on what are some good plugins.
 
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Well...if you do the drums after the tape tracks are in the DAW...it will be messy using the rack stuff on the percussion...and frankly, the samples from EZ Drummer will not need much in the way of rack processing anyway....but if you wanted to, you could mess with in the DAW using the DAW plugs. Much easier than using the rack gear on DAW tracks.
 
I am wondering, before he goes any further, he might want to do a sanity check on his setup? Make sure the drivers, inputs and what is what might reduce some of the basic problems. After that, it seems it is a workflow problem. Recording to tape, then dumping to the computer, getting the wave to line up, then adding tracks. Plus, he is doing a mix down that sound like it is not mixed well before hitting the DAW.

To OP,(Guys, correct me quickly if this is bad advice) before purchasing anything new, as stated earlier, record using a click or a beat on one track. Record your tracks on tape. Take each track and bounce to Reaper as a single track. If you have 8 recorded, then you should have 8 in Reaper (don't mix down). Get everything aligned, add your drums, then start your mix in Reaper. Add compression, verb what ever to the dry mix. (This is a little advanced) You can even run your dry tracks to your outboard effects and record a new "wet" track. Looks like you have a lot of what you need, just are having problems figuring out how to get it to flow.

I really think it is just some fundamentals with the media change that is causing most of the issues so far. Until that is fixed, hard to correct the finer problems.
 
The UX2 will serve you fine at this stage, saying "I don't want to use any Line 6" is sidestepping yoru issues in learnign how to use the equipment and DAW (settings) you have. You'll have the same problems with any other audio interface.
At least you finally figured out using the UX2 as your primary soundcard (input and monitoring) and disabling the built-in soundcard is the correct thing to do. No wonder you had monitor latency problems. :facepalm:
I saw you mention using the 'toneport reverb' at one point, then saying the recorded drums were 'dry'. I'll say it again: you need to learn to use your equipment and DAW. The Toneport UX2 is just an interface (soundcard). You may have got it with the PodFarm (or Gearbox) software, which is a whole VST (virtual effects) package. Reaper also comes with a ton of VSTs (note that you need to download some reverb files to make ReaVerb work well, though - it's in the Reaper manual).
 
The drums on tape got the whole analog production chain, even though I tapped the drums out manualy with the alesis module/box.

The drums on reap/DAW were added as a vst, then played a measure to construct. Then I stretched the measure. It was very quick and easy. Nothing is anded in DAW as VST effect. So now to get back the drums, I need to locate vst effects that mimick my analog chain?

The drivers I have some doubts. The ASIO choice is confusing as well. These things aren't mentioned as to how they effect the sound. I set it back to ASIO4All in win 7 64, and are continuing to monitor from the ux2. Not the laptop phone out.

Miroslav , I watched your youtube videos, and they are exactly the thing I trying to accomplish. Nice on the ears. Song for page, playing along and getting that tone. You give me hope.

My goals were mentioned. If I could have a laptop and a couple mics sets to record amp speakers/voices, I would be very happy. I would leave all the big racks and tape in the past...If I sounded like that , jimi page song of Miroslavs', I would be far, far , ahead.


I think the attic heat got to all my old reels of 1/4" , cause they are sounding not as I remember.
 
First thing I thought when I heard the samples is that you're probably mixing with your eyes with the DAW. It's easy to get lost in all the visual information digital offers and lose sight of the sound. I frequently make myself look away from the screen to ensure that I judge with my ears rather than my eyes.
 
Another question. If I plug 2 mics in to do x y setup , does the gearbox need to be open in the background along with reaper? When I close it, I cant tell but it sounds like it is not stereo.

The ux2 has its own little fx's pedal models and stuff ( I am trying to leave all that off) which aren't even reaper vst fx. I want the 1-2 and 3-4 stereo inputing in the gearbox interface.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
in all the visual .
Click to expand...

If I o scope the digital signal any analog inputed connection is tight and jagged, the bass instrument from the tape has these long smooth signwaves in the signal.

The only way I can make long o scope, sinewaves in DAW is using a midi keyboard vst like a rock type organ.
 
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mark1971a said:
Miroslav , I watched your youtube videos, and they are exactly the thing I trying to accomplish. Nice on the ears. Song for page, playing along and getting that tone. You give me hope.

My goals were mentioned. If I could have a laptop and a couple mics sets to record amp speakers/voices, I would be very happy. I would leave all the big racks and tape in the past...If I sounded like that , jimi page song of Miroslavs', I would be far, far , ahead.
Click to expand...

Well thanks for that! :o

:D

I did those YT videos a few years ago....been meaning to do some more, just never find the time.

That was a rather interesting setup when I did the vids.
I kinda jury-rigged it all up with the camera and the DAW backing tracks, while also recording the guitar track to the DAW.
I played the DAW backing tracks through the studio monitors so the camera could pick them up plus my guitar amp...that way later on I could use that as a reference for synchronizing the DAW audio tracks with the camera video/audio. I then replaced the camera audio with the DAW tracks and put a finished video file for YouTube.

Once I had it set up, it wasn't really that complicated at all.
 
Gearbox is not a VST, it is just a stand-alone FX program. You do not need to run the UX21 through it. Just select the UX2 as your input device in Reaper.
 
mark1971a said:
If I o scope the digital signal any analog inputed connection is tight and jagged, the bass instrument from the tape has these long smooth signwaves in the signal.

The only way I can make long o scope, sinewaves in DAW is using a midi keyboard vst like a type rock organ.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you're getting at here, but it may be best to just turn off the oscilloscope.
 
Your comment was about visual analysis , For that I use an external physical o scope. Do people not use these anymore?

Playing the clips in windows media player with oscope visualization will illustrate the point too.

Great, no gear box that is more progress. I had no stereo because it was on 1-2 input , not stereo mic1 and mic2 in the DAW.

In the tutorials it teaches how to cut and paste and normalize. Normalize makes the small signal peaks larger bringing them to the edge top and bottom of the track. I did this for all the daw tracks. Does that expansion in the visual space change the sound?

The motu 8mk3 da is not out of my range , but I agree this toneport if I can reproduce nice , it will teach me and get my feet wet. I support the live music/recording industry(whats left of it) , like to try new gear. Not too big on 10 stomp box overdrives with the same basic circuit. You know what I mean.
 
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mark1971a said:
Your comment was about visual analysis , For that I use an external physical o scope.

Playing the clips in windows media player with oscope visualization will illustrate the point too.
Click to expand...

My comment was about getting distracted by visual displays. Turn off the scope for now.

mark1971a said:
In the tutorials it teaches how to clip and paste and normalize. Normalize makes the small signal peaks larger bringing them to the edge top and bottom of the track. I did this for all the daw tracks.
Click to expand...

Don't normalize peaks. Digital is different from analog in that when something clips it clips suddenly and catastrophically. This happens at 0dBFS ("full scale"). You need to maintain headroom throughout the recording and mixing process. Most A/D converters are calibrated so analog signal at 0dBVU ends up at about -18dBFS in digital. So think of -18dBFS as your target average signal level, with peaks well below 0dBFS. Never let your digital signal clip.

Record and mix level meters are both cases of a visual display telling you something really important. It may even solve your sound quality problems.

mark1971a said:
Does that expansion in the visual space change the sound?
Click to expand...

On its own it just changes the signal level, but a bunch of normalized tracks mixed together will clip. If you just need to see the waveforms better there's certainly some sort of amplitude magnification option in your DAW.
 
Yeah...BSG is right....you shouldn't really compare audio by how it looks on a computer screen.

Like all that stuff where people EQ a mix by how it looks in the spectrum analyzer...etc.....
 
Okay , I will not use it. Only trying to find a way to communicate the signs and symptoms of the issues at hand.

Even direct with no normalization, I still feel something is not quite proper with reproduced signal. I lack the vocabulary to voice the concern properly. I am relying on clips and visualization for this instance.

I watched a demo discussing a tip, where the engineer is to copy/double the track and pan one 100% left and the other right. Is that what im supposed to be doing?
 
mark1971a said:
I watched a demo discussing a tip, where the engineer is to copy/double the track and pan one 100% left and the other right. Is that what im supposed to be doing?
Click to expand...

No.

I would suggest you start fresh and keep it real simple.

Record one track how you want it to be with your analog setup.
Then record it again into your DAW and work the plugs to make it sound right and similar to the tape track.

Right now you have too many moving pieces....MIDI, rack gear, dum box, EZ drummer, a two track mix from the tape tracks...etc....etc.
 
I am now super frustrated. Left with no tools or picture to communicate what is wrong.

To say use your ears, would be absolutely moronic. Same with you can do anything, obviously not.

There is one conclusion then. The input cord doesn't lie. If it cannot reproduce the analog signal ....

Thanks guys, I did make some progress. I listened to some of your links, and they sound good. Real good. So there is hope.
 
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