Convince me to go analog.

  • Thread starter Thread starter ampeg52
  • Start date Start date
Tascam DA is like DAT or ADAT tapes, right? If you go digital, go DAW, and avoid ADAT like the plague. same goes for those stand alone hard disk units. its the worst of both digital and analog. there is a reason its so cheap. Also, one huge benefit of DAW is that some of today's plugins sound pretty damn good, you won't get that with ADAT or stand alone devices with built in effects.

Remember, just because you work with a DAW, doesn't mean you have to cut, paste, nudge, time perfect and autotune your tracks to shit. Lots of guys in the indie/punk world use Pro Tools like a tape deck, simply for recording/playback.
 
cjacek said:
Hey, don't get me wrong. I love tape and tape machines and would never switch to digital but tape, you see, is not really the magic some people make it out to be. Well, I think it is but not along the lines of a 'magic bullet', if you catch my drift. The 'other' stuff is more important. ;)

--
Click to expand...

This is probably the bottom line.
 
A Reel Person said:
Analog is never convenient, especially now, but it never was! No use in reminiscing about the old days!:eek:;)

There's something to be said about scoring the digital Tascam 2488 if u really need an upgrade. The 2488 records 8-simul to hard disc and has all the convenience of a Portastudio. Just $700 convenient for the 2488mkII and $800 convenient for the 2488neo. It gets you tracking right out of the box with a self contained and portable unit.:eek:;)
Click to expand...

+1 This or the Korg D3200. Multitrackers are often overlooked but with reasonable care not to drop them and damage the hard drive, they offer all the convenience and portability of the original Portastudio.

To avoid "digital harshness" don't record hot - leave plenty of headroom even if in 16-bit mode. That will also reduce the risk of overs and generally make your life easier.

IMPORTANT: get a UPS! Use a short power lead to plug the multitracker into the UPS. The reason for this is that for some reason, before the final chord of the final song has died away, there's always some plonker that unplugs the power bar. Often it is yourself! It's important to shut these machines down properly or the final recording will be lost.
 
If you go digital, go DAW
Click to expand...

Except portability is somewhat an issue, as are finances. Having to take a computer and interface around (if the computer is not a laptop) is a pain. The all-in-one units are great solutions especially if you get one that has a USB out...you can track to the all-in-one and then transfer tracks to a computer for editing/mastering within the DAW, if you have to tinkertinkertinkertweaktweaktweak, but I'm becoming more and more the opinion that the best music is simple and straight...its too easy in a DAW application to ruin good music IMHO...too many easyeasyeasy bells and whistles.

I'd love to hear the recordings
Click to expand...

Here you go:




These two songs are off of a 1991(?) cassette-only release of a band I was in. Acoustic drums (in the second sample) were submixed through an EV live board, everything else was tracked straight to a 488mkII we rented. The project was mastered to DAT from which the cassettes were duped. No effects or processing was used during tracking, and during mastering I think we used a mild amount of BBE processing through a 462, some soft-knee limiting through some dynamics processor...can't remember what but it was nothing special, and an Alesis Quadraverb for delay and reverb effects.

I don't think the samples are representative of what a 238/488/688 can do either because they sound really dirty to me...I transferred them to the computer last night to make the mp3's...I transferred them using a consumer copy of the project that has been listened to...uh...a few times in the past 17 years :), and I used my 424 to play the tape...I think something might be wrong with the 424...any way, just keep that in mind...it used to sound cleaner, especially on the highs and the noise floor is much higher than normal on these samples.
 
Hey Ampeg,

How much are you looking to spend?

That may make all the difference on our suggestions, and what you can accomplish.

I did some of my first recordings when I was 16. I learned on digital, because I had a computer and it didn't take too much to record onto the computer. When I started putting more money into recording, I found myself less and less satisfied with my digital recordings. To explain: my first recordings sounded "good" for being cheap recordings on a cheap sound card, but spending money on more digital recording equipment didn't yield a "better" sound. When I was around 19 or 20 I started recording on tape and haven't looked back.

-MD
 
At the moment I have $297.42 as I already spent some money on mics (only had two before and they were better suited to just vocals as what I used to record was hip hop) but if the stuff I'm trying to sell finds a buyer I should be in the little over $700 range. One of the things I'm trying to sell is a Fostex VF-16 that one of my dad's coworkers gave to me and I realize it is a multitrack recorder but the manual is horrible and I can't figure it out for the life of me. Plus it only has two XLR inputs with the rest being 1/4 and every mic I own has an XLR cable so that could be a problem (although a good amount of them are dynamic so maybe I could just use a XLR to 1/4 cable?). Honestly I'd rather get something different to record to as this thing has frustrated me to hell trying to figure out (and I can figure out most things faster than my friends and family) but I just wanted to throw that out there as a possible other option. Also I'm not against getting an interface to record to a DAW but while I do have a computer that is my own that I could theoretically use it is about 4 years old and since I do homework and stuff on it too I don't know how willing I would be to lug it into someone's basement and then have to connect it and the monitor back up that night as it's a desktop.
 
Oh and sweetbeats I think both the songs sound pretty damn good quality wise besides the noise you explained. I'm actually into reggae and enjoyed the second song. I know you can manipulate digital audio to sound warmer but I was surprised how warm the recordings sounded compared to digital with such little editing considering it is cassette tape.

And themaddog this is a little off topic but I'm also in Massachusetts though I'm in the South Coast so if you see anything for sale that might fit my needs feel free to let me know as you're in my general area.
 
I do have a computer that is my own that I could theoretically use it is about 4 years old and since I do homework and stuff on it too I don't know how willing I would be to lug it into someone's basement and then have to connect it and the monitor back up that night as it's a desktop
Click to expand...

Yeah...just to extend your thinking and prior statements...my very first multitracker was actually a Teac 3340S (4-track 1/4" 7.5 and 15ips). It was more machine than I could handle...knew very little about maintenance. I'd worked with cassette for years so what I knew was an extension of that (keep the heads clean, demagnetize, blahblahblah). But MAN it sounded awesome...I'm not kidding you. I still have masters of scratch things I did on that deck that were dumped to computer through bad converters at low bitrates and they sound wonderful to my ears. At the time I needed something portable, and in my youthful ignorance I thought digital had to sound better...it was, after all, "perfect" RIGHT?! So I sold the 3340S and got a Digidesign AudioMedia III card for my computer. I was convinced that that was the ultimate...it was digital! It was a P-I-T-A...driver conflicts, I couldn't afford more than the basic software that came with it, and everything was so thin and lifeless sounding...clean and clear, but lifeless. The next decade would mark a progression of digital equipment in a pursuit to find a digital system that had life that I could afford. :D In the process I've grown so much in my understanding of how to use what I have, and that the grass is usually not greener on the other side, and that digital is not "perfect"...for me. Like I said earlier I am glad to have the digital systems that I have and to know what I know. Digital is powerful and, IMO necessary in this age if you are going to be integrating your work with the public market or other people in sound technology. But we sold ourselves so short when we ran to digital...it was a mirage. And the funny thing is when I bought that DigiDesign card, you remember I said I sold the 3340S due in part to a need for portability? WHAT AN IDIOT! Much easier to cart around a 3340S than a desktop PC and CRT monitor! :mad:

so look...my point of all that is to just draw you to:
  1. think about what you really want to do, and then...
    [*]select the gear that will allow you to do that...don't go chasing after ideals/pipe dreams/mirages.

I read your frustration with the VF-16 and really sense you want to get out there, plug some mics in and capture! So think about what is going to be the best balance of sound quality potential, budget, and simplicity. I know that comes right back to square one for you...its what you are trying to figure out, but I hope I'm helping you think about it in a way that will get you toward your goals.

Ampeg52, I have a sick amount of gear...I'm still an idiot. I spend a lot of time tinkering and adding to the herd and not enough time making music...I believe I'm moving toward an end to building the herd but it has, in a very real way, been a long, dry 15 year journey. What's still my favority piece of gear in the herd? The most fun and satisfying to use?

This...

424.gif


Dead serious.

I know you can manipulate digital audio to sound warmer but I was surprised how warm the recordings sounded compared to digital with such little editing considering it is cassette tape.
Click to expand...

You can manipulate all day and night...you'll not get your digital tracks to sound warm like analog...I refuse to get into a subjective debate that turns faux objective about it...Its not there...I've logged 100's of hours doing the best I can with my brain and my gear to get "that sound", and I know how it sounds so I have a concrete goal to pursue. Never done it. It took me 30 seconds to plug the 424 in last night and press PLAY and its there. And that was off of a second generation cassette copy of cassette master tracks that is worn out on a playback device that is acting up. Hey, Steely Dan didn't use cassette...it has its limitations but it is rude to dismiss it as many do just because its cassette.

We sold ourselves short...
 
++ to everything Cory said.

Note that I've changed the links above. Screwed them up the first time. The first one is the machine Cory's mentioned - the 424 and the others are the 3440 TEAC + mixer and also the 788 TASCAM. They're all in the Mass / Boston area and look especially yummy. ;)

ampeg52: I don't know how close Revere is to you but I'd drive out and get that NIB 424MKII if I were you - making sure it is in fact new as stated. That 3440 + 2A look interesting too [mostly I'd do it for personal use and not logging around] and that 788, albeit digital, would also be worth looking at.

--
 
ampeg52:

I did a search and found a couple of interesting things in your area:
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/msg/896267598.html
http://southcoast.craigslist.org/msg/855704101.html
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/msg/895964608.html
Click to expand...

That A-3440 is the non-simul-sync version right? Nice lookin' deck.

788's are cheap.

A basic DP-02 is not much more though...hm...Korg had an 8track digital unit that was setup with a analog recorder-like interface, one knob per function kind of thing...

Oh and Ampeg52 I was going to mention, you can get adapters to go from XLR to 1/4" for pretty cheap...the question is whether or not the 1/4" inputs on a piece of gear are actually loaded with mic pre's or if they are line inputs, so beware of that.
 
Cory, my friend, I edited the craigslist links. Would you please correct that, as it is not showing the 424, only 2 of the same links in your reply.. Thanks.:o

The 3440 units are all simul sync.
The 788 can record 6 inputs at once vs 2 on the DP-02, if I'm not mistaken.

--:)
 
I'd just cut to the chase!

Your dad gave you a VF16. That's a standalone 16-tracker that records 8-simul and has 8-mic/line inputs. All you need is patch cords and you're on your way! Of course, you'll have to read the manual and bone up on the usage of the VF, but that's a small price to pay. Any other modern multitracker would have the same or worse learning curve. Fostex is known for it's ease of use and reliability in the field.

The rest of this topic is miplaced gear lust. We all like new toys, but your dad would probably think you're nutz not using his VF, but looking for some other sort of similar gear, much less, ecchhh,... analog!:eek:;)

The way I see it, the VF16 has e'thing you need, except USB, but that's not a deal breaker in my book. As I've skimmed the manual, it looks like the VF16 will do certain things better than many other newer multitrackers, (buss mode recording).<<that's a big one in my book.

Forget the rest! Father knows best!:eek:;)
 

Attachments

  • 1-Fostex VF-16.webp
    1-Fostex VF-16.webp
    22.1 KB · Views: 74
Cory, my friend, I edited the craigslist links. Would you please correct that
Click to expand...

Done. Thanks. Missed that! :)

424mkII NIB...! Cool. :cool:

The 3440 units are all simul sync.
Click to expand...

OHHHH! Okay...didn't know that. So its the 3340 and 3340S that you have to watch for if you need/want simul-sync. Okay.

The 788 can record 6 inputs at once vs 2 on the DP-02, if I'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...

Rightrightright...okay, scratch that.

here is the Korg unit I was thinking of:

D888-large.jpg


Pretty neat actually...very portable, simultaneous 8in and 8out, phantom, analog-like mixer interface that can actually function as a basic live mixer, USB out for transfers...
 
+1 to what Dave said about the VF-16..I was kind of thinking that but he said it even better than I was thinking it.

You're there...if you are serious about using any piece of gear then it is high time to get serious about studying the manuals. You're going to need that skill with anything.
 
Another + for the VF-16. Dave's right and it's even more of a no brainer if ampeg52 already has that recorder in hand. No point in spending money in an unnecessary manner. Other than that it may indeed be misplaced gear lust. Gotta be objective. Thanks Dave for putting the train back on its tracks.;)

--
 
I like new gear & toyz as much or more than the rest of 'em!

D'oh!...............:eek::rolleyes:
 
I understand why you guys are saying to just learn how to use the VF-16 but unless if there is another manual out there that actually makes sense that isn't gonna happen. It's not that I hate reading manuals, I usually give something a go without the manual and then if I don't figure everything out I consult the manual but with this I couldn't figure anything out so I read like half the manual and all I can do now is start a new project. It's impossible to understand the manual as it was obviously translated from Japanese to English by some one who barely knows English. Honestly I can see why it would have a ton of features as the average consumer goes "a million features must be good" but I don't really care about anything besides that it records. If I wanted to do extensive editing I would transfer to PC to do it, I really just want something that I hit a button and it records, I hit another it stops, etc. It shouldn't take 4 button presses and looking at numerous screens to record one track.
 
ampeg52 said:
If I wanted to do extensive editing I would transfer to PC to do it, I really just want something that I hit a button and it records, I hit another it stops, etc. It shouldn't take 4 button presses and looking at numerous screens to record one track.
Click to expand...

That's one of the best arguments I could make for going analog; that's why I did it.

-MD
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top