Consumer vs "Pro"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rokket
  • Start date Start date
Rokket

Rokket

Trailing Behind Again
Someone kick me, but keep getting this confused in my head!

I keep seeing threads where people are asking how to get their mix loud, and the standard responses always leave out the fact that consumer gear is rated at a different dB level than so-called pro gear.

My problem is that I can't for the life of me remember the specs:

Is it +10dB for pro and -4dB for consumer gear,

or is it +4 and -10???

I know that beyond the obvious, a $3,000 pre amp is going to blow the doors off my $90 Yamaha mixer. Better clarity, less noise, yada yada yada. But I can't remember the specs on the dB rating.

And what exactly are they referring to when they state that? Please, you mastering house guys, keep it in layman's terms for this dumbass!
Thanks!
 
Pro audio gear usually will run at +4 dB, with a balanced connection. Consumer audio (cheaper stereo systems, input devices, and so on) run at -10dB and in general use un-balanced connections. These numbers are used so someone can compensate for the dB difference when trying to transfer material through one of the two systems to the other.

This has no effect on how "loud" your mix ends up. Adding extra volume to a master is done through proper gain staging by a mastering engineer.
 
Rokket said:
I keep seeing threads where people are asking how to get their mix loud, and the standard responses always leave out the fact that consumer gear is rated at a different dB level than so-called pro gear.
Tuo has it correct all the way, it's +4dBV/balanced for most "pro" gear and -10dBm/unbalanced for most "consumer" gear.

But this has absolutely nothing to do with music production volume levels. These "dB" measurements are just ways of describing the nominal voltage levels used in the wiring between the analog hardware components (e.g. recorders, mixers, reverbs, compressors, etc.) There is no direct relation between these values and the loudness of the music program being carried over these wires.

Just because something has the letters "dB" in it does not mean it's referring to one thing. Note that it's +4dBV and -10dBm. These "decibles" are two different scales of measurement, just like "°F" and "°C" are two entirely different scales for measuring temperature.

And these decibles are not the same thing at all as the decibles that are measured by the meters on your recording and gear (which themselves use different scales such as "dBVU" and "dBFS"). Comparing those decibles is almost as erroneous as comparing a 90 degree angle with 90 degrees Fareinheit. They both use what are called "degrees", but they are measuirng entirely different properties.

No, the loudness on commercial releases is a combination of quality gear and quality technique being driven by faulty, boneheaded decision making. It has nothing to do with the difference between -10 and +4.

G.
 
Rokket said:
And what exactly are they referring to when they state that? Please, you mastering house guys, keep it in layman's terms for this dumbass!
Thanks!


Well I think the technical aspect was covered well by Glen.

I suppose another spin on it can be something I learned in the process of working with a studio design firm a while ago to get a studio up and running.

In one of the many conversations we had, the concept of "proven gear" was brought up. In lamiens terms, Mark was refering to proven gear as gear that has shown it's worth time and time again. Just like when you buy a honda, or toyta, or mercedes for the functionality, practically and track record.

Occasionally you're have these new brands of car that come out and people will try them, but it would have to be such a good car at such a good value to begin to enter the long journey against its competitors. So it either tanks or becomes lucky enough to be another household name. So the practice of buying subcontractor type gear is also common, but you kinda have to be in the know to know of the shops that make such equipment.

For example, not too many know about the SPL transient designer and how amazing that piece of gear is, but it's becoming accepted and changing the way we compress and dynamically alter things in today's music. So in a few years, that'll get it's rep alongside unique and custom items.

So let's say you're paying 3+ grand for either a Neve, API, SSL, Cranesong, whatever preamp, you're usually paying for a product a majority of people don't know anything about, but will immediately identify a certain familiar and pleasant sound. A sound that delivers results immediately and very easily. I think more importantly, you're paying for something you've worked with before and can use to your advantage. After all, you're trying to create the sound ahead of the trend, meaning that the manner of how the public will listen depends on your work.

That will always remain the same. The idea of a human being getting the chills when they hear something that sounds *good*. In the end, that's all where looking for.

So it's the age old thing, "sure, so and so could of engineered that famous album on a beringer or something like it, but why didn't they do just that?"

Especially when the idea of a production is to do it as cheaply as possible, I guarantee you that you'll always have your top engineers favoring things like million dollar consoles and fancy vintage and/or top of the line "cutting edge" gear to help create these emotionally unique and inspiring projects that one can never replicate at home with home quality gear.

A great engineer can do great things in any setting, but a great engineer will usually be at such a technical standard, that it would blow our minds to understand it.

It's never immediately apparent why the costs and names matter, but when you get into it enough and you've seen enough things, it starts to make a lot of sense.


Just my spin on it. :)
 
Last edited:
And engineering an album is a lot easier when you're not fighting the equipment or figuring out "work arounds".
 
Harvey Gerst said:
And engineering an album is a lot easier when you're not fighting the equipment or figuring out "work arounds".

Even easier with good talent and producer, and not having to figure out work-arounds for issues if they are lacking skills.
 
Back
Top