Constructive feedback on my setup thus far?

[sweetbeats]

Hey, everybody.

So I'm coming along getting everything racked up in my studio. Its hard to conceptualize how well things will work in operation without having had the chance to take the setup for a spin so to speak. Just wondering if anybody has any questions or comments on what I'm doing that could lead to some tweaks before I start hooking stuff up...

Here is an overview:

Basically you've got the angled rack to the left of the knee-hole, and the combination rack to the right of the console. The Tascam halftrack on the floor there to the right will go in the top of the combination rack...the Ampex multitrack machine is behind the Tascam out of view.

There is a subwoofer under the table along with the studio PC.

My ideology was that input and sound processing related gear is in the angled rack on the left, mastering processors as well as the headphone amp are in the upper part of the combo rack (headphone amp there so it is easily accessible, mastering gear there for accessibility and also logically placed by the halftrack), and gear that I don't need to readily access or that is related to other gear in the combo rack goes in the bottom of the combo rack.

Closeups and detail of what's in each rack:

Angled rack:

From the top:

• Roland DC-30 analog chorus/echo
• (2) ART TCS dynamics processors (4 channels of processing)
• Tascam RS-20B dual spring reverb
• Yamaha i88x multichannel preamp/mLAN interface
• Presonus Digimax FS 8-channel preamp ADAT Lightpipe converter
• and then a patchbay and power management below that

Upper section of combo rack:

From the top:

• Tascam BR-20T halftrack (not in there yet)
• BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer
• (2) CRL SEP400A 4-band dynamics processors
• Behringer HA-4700 headphone amp

Lower section of combo rack:

From the top:

• Tascam LA-40mkII 4-channel bi-directional balanced/unbalanced level converter
• Behringer CX-2310 crossover
• patchbay
• Soundtracs MX console power supply
• TimeLine Micro Lynx synchronizer system unit
• power management

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Looks pretty cool but the layout seems kind of strange with the whole thing kind of butted up into a corner and against the wall.

I can't tell from the picture how large the room is but if there is some space to play with things in there, it would be better if things were laid out like they might be in a decent pro level control room where the mixer is is more into the middle of the room, with the speakers centered to it in an equilateral triangle and then the other gear placed for easy reach and sight-lines with the most used pieces at the top of the racks and least used at the bottom.

Cheers!

 

[briank]

It depends some on how you're working of course, but a couple things jump out at me.

One is that you've got your monitors symmetrically mounted on the wall for midfield monitoring, but the console up against the wall and in a corner, meaning that if you're sitting centered at the console, your ears will be well out of the monitoring sweet spot. Even if you're mainly mixing at the last 8ch of the console, you'll be forward of the sweet spot, which is most probably about center and 1/3rd to 1/2way back into the room from the front wall, depending on room length. I appreciate that space is tight, but you'll probably find yourself making a tweak on the console then rolling your chair back into the sweet spot to listen and judge quite a bit. If you can move the rack that's in the right corner in your pic over to the left side and center the console in the room, that would get you closer and be a little more ergonomic while working at the console.

As for which goes in what rack, are you doing any performing in that room? If so, consider sight lines across the room as you'll want to be able to easily view meters/lights on any tracking gear from where you're performing. This will mean faster easier setups.

Personally, I'd rather not have the patchbay right above the console PSU.

It's GREAT to see you're at the stage where you can start hooking everything up and placed to your liking. You're in the home stretch!

 

[Blue Jinn]

I want to know what came in the Mouser box, or better yet where it went. :-D

 

[sweetbeats]

Looks pretty cool but the layout seems kind of strange with the whole thing kind of butted up into a corner and against the wall.

I can't tell from the picture how large the room is but if there is some space to play with things in there, it would be better if things were laid out like they might be in a decent pro level control room where the mixer is is more into the middle of the room, with the speakers centered to it in an equilateral triangle...

Yeah, it'd be nice to have it laid out symmetrically, but the room and what I have packed in there really won't allow it. It is about 10' x 11' and there are two drumsets, the MM-1000, the combo rack and the console which is about 3' x 5.5'. Its full in there. Here is a short YouTube video that might give some more perspective:

YouTube

And a couple additional pics just outside the door so you can see the relationship with the console, combo rack and MM-1000:

The other thing to note here is that my seating position at the console is going to center on the group master section which IS in between the monitors. The tape returns are the 8 strips to the right of the master section, and then the 8 strips to the left of the master section will be the most frequently used.

One is that you've got your monitors symmetrically mounted on the wall for midfield monitoring, but the console up against the wall and in a corner, meaning that if you're sitting centered at the console, your ears will be well out of the monitoring sweet spot. Even if you're mainly mixing at the last 8ch of the console, you'll be forward of the sweet spot, which is most probably about center and 1/3rd to 1/2way back into the room from the front wall, depending on room length. I appreciate that space is tight, but you'll probably find yourself making a tweak on the console then rolling your chair back into the sweet spot to listen and judge quite a bit.

You are absolutely correct, Brian. Unfortunately that's the way it is becase if I moved the console back so that it allowed me to be seated in the sweet spot then there'd be nowhere to stand.

I'm well aware that the gear is too big for the room or the room is too small for the gear. That's just the way it is. I've never had a space that is big enough to be able to operate the board in the sweet spot. But finances would not allow a bigger space. We crammed a new master suite (i.e. bedroom, walk-in closet and full bathroom), a mud/utility room and the sound room into the space of our old garage which was 24' x 20'. There were 50 other priorities besides the sound room and I'm just glad to be able to have it, so I'm making the best of the limited size and expect to just deal with the compromises (i.e. trying to muffle the ambient noise of the MM-1000, rolling fore and aft to listen, tweak, listen, tweak, etc.) Even with its misgivings this room is more than I thought I'd ever have at my disposal.

As for which goes in what rack, are you doing any performing in that room? If so, consider sight lines across the room as you'll want to be able to easily view meters/lights on any tracking gear from where you're performing. This will mean faster easier setups.

Yup...this is my tracking and mixing room. It'll be a pain when I don't have somebody else to operate the board if I want to lay down some drum tracks, but there is usually a child or two that is available. No its not really the setup for the home recordist...its not compact and convenient to operate by the solo artist/recordist. So be it. My hope is that since there is a defined set of gear and instruments that over time I'll become very familiar with how stuff sounds, levels, etc., so that strips can be set and left alone and aside from minor tweaks it'll be mostly turn on and record.

Personally, I'd rather not have the patchbay right above the console PSU.

Why? Where would you put it? I have it there because in reality there will very seldomly be changes to it...and I'm out of room up top...and by placing it over the console PSU it is shallow enough to allow breathing for the PSU without having to leave an empty space for venting...I'm out of rack space.

I want to know what came in the Mouser box, or better yet where it went.

Heh...mostly its is caps. That box is completely full at the moment too. A lot of it is comprised of larger caps for the Ampex.

 

[zorf]

Maybe you could snake some cables into the nearby rooms for tracking and use the bathroom
For a reverb.
I'm sure your wife wouldn't mind.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Thanks for posting the additional pics and video, Cory. That helps to really show why it's so cramped in there and set up the way it is which is cool so long as its functional for you to work in there and get decent near-field mixes.

I know from when I had my MS16 in my studio, the mechanical noise from it was an issue that prevented me from being able to do vocals or acoustic guitars in the same room and ended up using a second bedroom as a live room to get the isolation needed. Maybe you can use the hallway immediately outside of the room to do yours when isolation is needed? But one thing is for sure and that's the appreciation one gets for a real recording studio facility which not only has the cool gear but also the space to set it up and work with it, with good isolation from the outside world and with good acoustics. That's obviously the biggest difference between the home enthusiast and the pro studio.

That said, it's still pretty cool as is and I'm sure you'll get great results from it, as is.

Cheers!

 

[fstrat76]

I also have a small room and the mixer and monitors are close to the wall. I have 1/2" drywall and if I recall you are using a thicker sound deadening wall. But I am in the process of adding some acoustic panels behind, above, and to the sides of the main mix area, and bass traps in corners behind.

With your monitors that close to the wall also, and one in a corner, you might want to experiment with some acoustic treatment in various places.

 

[Blue Jinn]

This is going to seem a weird thing to say, but I like the choice of colors for the carpet and walls. It has a brown oxide vibe about it. And I'm not trying to be funny.

 

[sweetbeats]

Maybe you could snake some cables into the nearby rooms for tracking and use the bathroom for a reverb. I'm sure your wife wouldn't mind.

HAHAHAHA! Haha...heheh..heh.

You're a sick man.

Actually I DO have it in mind to run a mic out to the garage which is right outside the sound room...24' x 24' unfinished with open ceiling and I'm sure if I crack the doors I could get some cool ambiance. And our piano is 50' away in the living room and when the room was being built I put chases in the wall allowing me to run snake cable from the wall with the console to the wall behind the kids' drumset and also out to the utility room directly outside so I can hook a multichannel snake to the wall outside the sound room and run it to wherever and have the doors to the room closed up tight.

Thanks for posting the additional pics and video, Cory. That helps to really show why it's so cramped in there and set up the way it is which is cool so long as its functional for you to work in there and get decent near-field mixes.

I know from when I had my MS16 in my studio, the mechanical noise from it was an issue that prevented me from being able to do vocals or acoustic guitars in the same room and ended up using a second bedroom as a live room to get the isolation needed. Maybe you can use the hallway immediately outside of the room to do yours when isolation is needed? But one thing is for sure and that's the appreciation one gets for a real recording studio facility which not only has the cool gear but also the space to set it up and work with it, with good isolation from the outside world and with good acoustics. That's obviously the biggest difference between the home enthusiast and the pro studio.

That said, it's still pretty cool as is and I'm sure you'll get great results from it, as is.

I think you hit the nail on the head there, Jeff...This is definitely a home recording situation and I am definitely a home recordist...It would be more appropriate for me to have a more compact format mixer and tape machine and what we are dealing with here is the dichotomy of a home recording "studio" with big stuff that doesn't really work in the space, but I really like the particular equipment so I've chosen to compromise some things...

YES there is quite the difference between what I have as a typical home recording space and a "professional" space. AFAIC I see most commonly in the home a spare room in a house being used or a shared space. Though my space WAS purpose-built for sound isolation, it is a regular shape (albeit dimensions were selected to minimize nodes as best I could within the confines of the rest of the surrounding spaces in the project), and aside from the double door and the deep window sills you wouldn't know you were in a specialized room...it'd work well as a spare bedroom, office, etc. which was PART of what I wanted to do in case we need to move someday...I didn't want an oddity to the home but rather something that would enhance the marketability...I often think in contingencies which is good but can also draw things out time-wise. But YES I look at pics of famous studios and there is a clear distinction for a true purpose-built space...not that many haven't added on to homes or built separate structures on their properties for the purpose of recording, but I see that as today's "professional" if it is a working facility you know? Let's face it...my "studio" is a hobby room. That's what it is.

I pretty much figured I'd have vocals or acoustic guitar tracking in the utility room right outside the sound room. It'll be nice looking in there for a "utility" room...one wall will have large cubbies covering the entire wall with coats and such...it is our informal entry room from the garage, but the cubbies will be good for deadening and I'll be able to balance that with some natural ambiance with careful mic placement all the way to the 1/2 bath through the laundry room attached to the utility room...basically the three rooms together make a hall roughly 6' wide by about 20' and the 1/2 bath is at one end and the utility room at the other with the laundry room in between, and the utility room is also pretty shelterd from outside noise because of the garage...the room is surrounded by other rooms of the house on all sides.

And regarding monitor placement...Yeah, I know that is going to be an issue so I'll have to dicker with that. I suspect I will need some mineral fiber panels on the back wall there with the monitors and especially in the corners. I DID mount the monitors up higher to reduce reflections on the console surface.

So bottom line is that I knew going in to it what I was up against as far as the setup...I made scale drawings of the room and scale cutouts of the equipment so I could play with the layout to find a good balance of the space usage as well as the work flow and there were compromises to made at each step, but, again, we did this whole thing on a shoestring so I was happy to have ANY place for my hobby and one built up for sound? Get out! Its a dream come true for me...no its not "ideal" but it'll WORK, like you are saying, and at this point, as I start actually setting things up I wanted to get perspective from you all since it is easy to loose that perspective when you are immersed in something for so long, and this has been really great. I truly appreciate the comments and questions and pointers. It helps.

Just to clarify on the remodel project of which the sound room was a part, what we did was added 700 sq. ft. of finished living space to the house (which is an increase of about 50%) which included increased family area, master suite (bedroom, full bath and walk-in closet), utility room, and sound room, all new windows, resided (almost) the entire house with hardiplank (doing the rest next spring but we have almost all the material to do it), painted (almost) the entire house (same...will paint when the siding is complete), added the new 24 x 24 garage, addressed a major structural issue related to a 28' nearly unsupported span (this involved cutting a 2' swath in the roof over that area and dropping in a triple-wide strong-back truss), and new decorative concrete driveway pad, back patio, front patio and walks (actually forming up today)...there is still trimwork to do inside as well as laminate plank flooring to install (over about 1000 sq. ft.), but we have all the materials onsite and paid for...OH! And a completely new electrical service and e-panel was put in along with a lot of wiring replaced in the existing structure...OH! And we put about 600' of water and electrical service throughout our field. So you can see the "studio" was a small part in the big picture, and we did all that for around $75K total I believe for materials and labor. We were able to cover a chunk of that with a refinancing and the rest has been pinching (maybe clamping) over the last year and a half and we've done a lot of the work ourselves. So lots of other priorities going on and that may shed some light on why I'm thankful just to have the space!

I also have a small room and the mixer and monitors are close to the wall. I have 1/2" drywall and if I recall you are using a thicker sound deadening wall. But I am in the process of adding some acoustic panels behind, above, and to the sides of the main mix area, and bass traps in corners behind.

With your monitors that close to the wall also, and one in a corner, you might want to experiment with some acoustic treatment in various places.

Yes. I have several mineral fiber panels that I'll be working with. And yes the wallboard is 5/8" but the best part is that it is "Quiet Rock", and the type I bought has the damping factor of 8 layers of regular sheetrock. It costs more, but with that on the outside and inside surfaces of the room, and with the double-wall construction (two 2 x 4 walls with a 1" airgap, staggered studs and a floating ceiling and "blow-in-blanket micro-fiber" insulation in the walls) along with the double door I get an average broadband attenuation of about 70dB's. That means I can beat on the drums as hard as I want and the kids can't hear it at the other end of the house.

This is going to seem a weird thing to say, but I like the choice of colors for the carpet and walls. It has a brown oxide vibe about it. And I'm not trying to be funny.

Okay. That's not wierd...I never thought of that...I just always had it in my head that I wanted it to be a rich brown color in there...my wife and I always play it so safe (boring) with colors and I wanted the sound room to be different. We looked at a bunch of browns but the one we put up we are really happy with it. Warm and rich...soothing, and it blends really well with the carpet in there which is a piece we salvaged from another part of the house where we tore it up in lieu of the laminate plank flooring...the carpet is about 30 years old but with the neutral base and the little color flecks and the berber style loop it hides stains really well and has held up really well, and it goes nice with the brown. And...yeah...the walls look like tape...

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Sounds like you've done your homework, Cory, on the planning of the space with regard to future possible home sales and not wanting to have a situation where the room couldn't easily be re-purposed for more pedestrian uses! That's smart thinking!

I guess my comments were more on the whimsical side because we've seen you seek out and restore such massive technological giants, that it almost seems a bit depressing to see these once "wild elephants" that you've collected on your safaris now being forced into such a small cage, metaphorically speaking. But its also import to remember that if this gear was still worth what it cost originally, none of us would have what we have now. So I supose unless the housing market collapses to the degree that old pro analog gear has, we may start seeing new threads about classic pro studios being acquired by regular folks for song. And considering the state of the economy, those days might not be that far away.

Cheers!

 

[VESSEL2020]

I don't have any constructive feedback for you Cory (because I know how it is working in limited space, and it's hard to judge unless you are the person who is actually occupying the space),...but I gotta say,..
I've been watching all the hard work you've put into your "home recording space" since I've subscribed to this forum and it has definitely paid off! Nice setup ya got there! Good luck with your new studio space, and I hope to hear some nice "warm" recordings in the near future!