Condenser mics too hot for drum room

[pappy999]

I did a session this weekend with a loud drummer. I have a 10x10 drum room with no acoustic treatment (live, bright room). I was using some mxl 603's for hihats and snare bottom. I was also using a Shure ksm 32 for a room mic. All of these mics were distorting during the tracking. I was running them into a mackie sr24 then into my digi001 and behringer ada8000. I had no extra gain from the mackie or the beri and digi. They were still distorting and overloading. Do I need seperate preamps for these mics that can cut some signal away?

 

[corso]

There are simple pads available that you plug in between mic and cable, one is called the KickPad thhat I've seen in a catalog once, but i have never had that problem, at least not one that wasn't solved by the pads on mics or pres. I don't know, man. Got any ribbon mics?

 

[notCardio]

Got any other mic options?

I could be showing my ignorance again, but that sounds like a nightmare scenario to me for those mics. I've always seen 603's referred to being used as overheads, but not directly on snare or hat. Seens like people pretty much use dynamics on snare, at least. 57's, 421's, various Audix that I can't think of off the top of my head. And drums in a completely live (as in no absorbtion?) 10x10 room, I don't see how that could not suck. Like I said, I could be wrong and probably am. Have you done this before in this room with different drums?

 

[mixsit]

They were still distorting and overloading.

Do you know where in the chain it was overloading?

Do I need seperate preamps for these mics that can cut some signal away?

Not until it's known where the problem is. Some mic/pre combos need pads on loud sources. Then like Corso said there are inline pads for the mic, or pads for line level if the mismatch is at the A/D (less likely).
It's hard to imagine a room mic being too hot though..
Wayne

 

[pappy999]

Are drum rooms usually dead or live as far as reflection? I could put some auralex pads on the walls in the room. I have used this drum room before but not with a drummer that played that loud.

 

[corso]

It depends on the room, and the sound desired. In the '70's and '80's it was "the deader the better", everything was closemiked, gated all to hell, and treated with digital reverb...in the '90's there was a trend toward liver rooms and ambient miking, which continues now. But a live room has to be a good sounding room because it becomes part of the instrument, or an instrumwent itself, really.

That said, a square 10x10 room with painted drywall is gonna sound like ass about 99% of the time. So yeah, you need some treatment in there...a combination of absorption and diffusion. Close mic techniques will probably be your friend too. If you are recording to computer you can get a convolution reverb plug-in that will have some good drum room reverbs...take your room out of the picture as much as you can and replace it with that.

 

[Ford Van]

That POS Mackie, the preamps are REALLY freakin' hot!!! I used to mix on one nightly at a club, and we had to purchase a BUNCH of -15dB pads to cool down some of the mics.

Most consoles have a preamp gain stucture that is reasonable, or pads to cool things down, but not that console!

Anyway, you will need to get some mic level pads. Probably around $10-15 each.

Or, use a different preamp.

 

[pappy999]

Has anyone ever used these? I think these are what I am looking for.


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX30/#anchor

 

[corso]

Has anyone ever used these? I think these are what I am looking for.


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX30/#anchor

Yeah. If you notice, they come in 10, 20, and 30 dB reduction. I'd start with the 20. With most mics a 10 db pad is enough, but maybe not in your situation, and 30 seems like a lot. If you have to turn the preamp up too high to get a good level, you end up running out of headroom and are right back where you started.

 

[notCardio]

Are drum rooms usually dead or live as far as reflection? I could put some auralex pads on the walls in the room. I have used this drum room before but not with a drummer that played that loud.

Did you use those mics in the same way on the other drummer(s)?

I think drums rooms are usually mostly live, with most of the absorbtion coming from carpeting just directly beneath the kit itself, but they're usually much larger rooms. Check out the drum forum, they should have a better idea.

Guys, do other people use 603's this way? Am I just way off base here? I really want to know.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Using 603s for his purposes (snare bottom and hihat) is not unusual. A small diaphragm condenser is good for picking up the high end of the snares and hihat. Snare top mics are usually dynamics though.

That snare bottom mic is going to be really hot though, so a pad is a must.

I agree that the 10x10 room sounds like it would be bad, but I guess you can't really say until you hear it. If there's really no absorption, then there will be very strong resonance peaks. I have a 10x18 heavily treated room and find it very clean and easy to work with. Untreated it sounds horrible.

 

[fldrummer]

You might want the shure pad. It's switchable
http://www.shure.com/accessories/a15as.asp

 

[notCardio]

Well, I stand corrected

I'll admit I don't pay that much attention to the drum threads, since it doesn't apply to me at this time, but I've never noticed sdcs (OK, MadAudio, sdcs just doesn't look right, even if it is correct) being used for close micing snares (top or bottom) or hats. Ya learn somethin' new every day around here.

Also, can anyone tell me what A-B powering is, that was described as being unsuitable for use with that pad?